San Diego Chargers: Here's Why WR Vincent Jackson Won't Be Back
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 11:48 AM PST
in San Diego Chargers Offseason
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@BFTB_Chargers all charger fans need to keep this trending. #KeepVJax
— Hunter Worsfold (@BRBgottahunt) February 15, 2012
This hashtag needs to be addressed before it takes off. I know that watching football brings out emotions and therefore you guys have emotional reactions to everything and want to keep every player that ever made you cheer. I get that.
However, I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and wait for people to start raining down criticism on A.J. Smith when Jackson inevitably signs elsewhere. It is and will be the right move to offer Jackson a fair contract and let him take someone else's over-inflated offer instead. Allow me to explain why.
Contract Lengths/Age
I've always wondered how many people pay attention to A.J. Smith's contract lengths. He tends to line up all of the big contracts on the San Diego Chargers' roster to expire at the same time, and I'm sure there's some salary cap reasoning for this. Here's an example:
- Philip Rivers: Free Agent in 2016
- Antonio Gates: Free Agent in 2016
- Marcus McNeill: Free Agent in 2016
- Eric Weddle: Free Agent in 2016
See a trend? It's almost like A.J. is predicting that 2016 is the next time he'll need to completely revamp the team and focus on a younger core of players. This is my first reason that I don't see Vincent Jackson back on the Chargers: He's going to want a 5-7 year contract, someone out there is going to offer it to him, and A.J. Smith isn't going to see the point of having Jackson signed for seasons that Rivers and Gates aren't signed for. I believe that's the smart way of going about it.
Contract Lengths/Age (Cont.)
Staying on the contract lengths for a second. A.J. Smith prefers his team to be young. Younger teams are cheaper, they get injured less and they have something left in the tank come playoff time. Also, and this is big, young teams usually get better while old teams usually get worse rolling over from season to season.
There are certain positions where it's okay to be old. Offensive line, Tight End, and Quarterback are three roles that can be played by veterans without much risk of a huge drop-off (later in the contract) or injury. The possible exception from that group is Left Tackle, where you need to maintain your quick first step. Anyway, this is why guys like Rivers (30) and Gates (31) can still get those long-term deals.
Being an old WR doesn't really cut it. Out of the top 10 WRs in the league in 2011, only 3 were 30 or older. Those guys were Wes Welker, Steve Smith (CAR) and Roddy White. White is the biggest of the group at 6 feet even.
VJ is 6'5" and a lot of his game is built on speed, which is an odd combination. If Jackson gets a 6 year deal, 5 of those years will be after he turns 30 years old. That doesn't sound like a wise investment to me. That sounds like 3-4 years of overpaying.
The WR Market
Let's assume that the Chargers were trying to add a receiver to replace Vincent Jackson. The goal here would be to get someone that could be a #1 WR, easing the transition from Malcom Floyd to Vincent Brown (as the #2 WR) in 2013. Even if they're not ready to be a #1 in 2012, they need to have the skills to be one in 2013. Got it?
Here's what's out there on the free agent market that might work:
- Reggie Wayne: 33 years old, but coming off a great season without a decent QB
- DeSean Jackson: 25 years old, a bit of a headcase, can't stay healthy
- Marques Colston: 28 years old, not much different from Jackson's situation but less expensive
- Brandon Lloyd: 30 years old, unsure if he's going to be good consistently
- Robert Meachem: 27 years old, might not be a #1
That's not a great list. I have issues with all of those guys. At least with Reggie Wayne you could maybe count on him to be a #1 for the next two seasons, but he'd make the offense less explosive (downfield) than it is with VJ now. That'd be the only guy that I'd be really happy to pick up, although DeSean Jackson would be awfully exciting.
Does the draft have anything good to offer?
- Justin Blackmon: Don't worry about learning his name, the Chargers have no chance at him
- Kendall Wright: Baylor, Doesn't really fit the system because he's only 5'10" but he's a deep threat
- Michael Floyd: Notre Dame, Been compared to Dwayne Bowe but is a bit of a headcase and injury-prone
- Mohamed Sanu: Rutgers, Imagine Vincent Jackson with less speed
Again, not a great list. However, this group is very cheap. If the Chargers are planning to replace Malcom Floyd in 2013 — and they should based on his injury troubles alone — they can sign Reggie Wayne to a short deal (2-3 years?) and draft one of these guys with their first pick. In 2013 that leaves you with Brown, Wayne and the aforementioned rookie as your WR group and soon after that you have a pair of young starting WRs with Brown and the rookie. Not awful.
The key is to realize that there's a much better chance at finding a solid WR in the first round of the draft that can contribute by 2013 than there is of finding a pass-rusher that can contribute in 2012.
Team Needs
The Chargers do not need a dominant top-ten WR. I'm sorry, many will disagree with that, but they don't. With Antonio Gates, Philip Rivers, Malcom Floyd, Vincent Brown and a group of soft-handed RBs, the ball will move.
But what about our "big play" threat? In 2011, San Diego was 17th in the league in passing plays of more than 40 yards with just 8 of them; Vincent Jackson had 4 of those. In 2010, the Chargers were 2nd in the league with 15 passing plays of 40+ yards; Jackson had just 1 of those. In 2009, they were ranked 6th with 13 of those big passing plays; Jackson had 4 of them. Here's how those passing offenses ranked by passing yards per attempt:
- 2011: 6th
- 2010: 1st
- 2009: 1st
What does all of this mean? It means that the offense doesn't change based on whether or not Vincent Jackson is a part of it. There aren't any more big plays because he's out there. The offense runs better or worse depending almost entirely on the offensive line, dictating whether or not they can give Rivers time to effectively throw the ball and whether or not the running game can get going. Vincent Jackson does almost nothing to affect either of those things.
Knowing that, and knowing how the Chargers defense has been lacking in a pass-rush, the Chargers team needs should be ranked as such (depending on what happens with certain team free-agents):
- A dominant pass-rusher
- An offensive lineman (or linemen) (re-sign or replace Kris Dielman and/or Marcus McNeill)
- A starting WR (re-sign or replace Vincent Jackson)
- Fullback (re-sign or replace Jacob Hester and/or Mike Tolbert)
- A starting Strong Safety (re-sign or replace Steve Gregory)
- Nose Tackle (re-sign or replace Antonio Garay)
- Running Back (re-sign or replace Mike Tolbert)
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I like this a lot.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
Older and younger teams tend to get injured at the same rate
Younger teams will have players return from injury faster. Maybe that’s what was meant in the “Contract Lengths/Age” section, but it wasn’t worded that way.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
by Wonko on Feb 15, 2012 12:05 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don't really see a trend with the contract expiration dates
McNeill was never going to play out his contract. QBs with the kind of contract Rivers has tend to need to renegotiate before the final year. Gates isn’t all that likely to make it to the end of his contract. So, I’d predict that they’d only project Weddle reaching FA in 2016.
Also, there are two other players, Clary and Scifres, who signed long termed deals. Clary’s goes a year shorter than those 4 and Scifres a year longer.
I’d just tend to think that while our brains may see a pattern, I’m skeptical that there is a special plan by A.J. on that one.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
by Wonko on Feb 15, 2012 12:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
*specific plan
Not special plan.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
Great piece
But I would like to add that I don’t think AJ will go out and get another WR if Jackson walks. I think Floyd will be moved to the no.1 position, with Brown to the no.2 slot. and maybe making Bryan Walters a backup or used for short/intermediate pass routes. Like you said, the offense is going to move and rack up points.
Reggie Wayne would be a nice addition if Smith went that route, but I think Marques Colston would be a better catch. Same height as Jackson, and you still have a presence/threat down field.
"follow @radio2012, trust me, you will find his optimism, innocence, and honesty quite refreshing. as a jaded bastard, i sure do." justdave2103
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by Jonathan Holmes on Feb 15, 2012 12:18 PM PST reply actions
THERE IT IS!
The first over-valuing of Bryan Walters of the offseason. That felt good to get out of the way.
First, they already tried Floyd as the #1 in 2010. It didn’t work because he can’t stay healthy. You really think they’re gonna go into the season knowing that they’re a single Floyd injury away from Bryan Walters being a starting WR? That’s insane.
If they still had Naanee or Ajirotutu, I’d almost agree with you.
Colston is the same age, roughly the same size and will cost almost the same as Jackson. Don’t understand how you could want him and also think the piece was “great”.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe...maybe Bryan Walters can be our Jeremy Lin next year!!
I think Colston would be cheaper than Jackson, but the Saints won’t let him go. Wonko also pointed out that we still don’t know how he’ll come back from his most recent injury. Anywho, we’ll see what happens with the WR core in the upcoming months/weeks.
Not changing this signature until John Gennaro eats his hat.
Nick Diaz was robbed. UFC 143.
Cheaper than Jackson doesn't mean he's cheap enough
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
You are right about Floyd staying healthy and Walters…if they do let VJ walk and get a solid replacement, I think most fans would accept that. AJ being AJ it will not happen. DeSean Jackson is a nut, but I think he would fit the Chargers offense nicely. His speed to go with Floyd and Gate’s size….That’s the thing about VJ and Floyd, I like them both, but they are both the same style WR. Wayne could be the temp solution.
DJax has a few monster games, then disappears for entire games.
In his four years (65 games, counting postseason, excluding games missed), he has had 22 games in which he caught 2 or fewer passes. That’s 33% of his games.
In those games, he is averaging 30.17 ypg (35.6 ypg in 2010-11). In only one game did he still accrue sizable yardage (98 yds.), and only surpassed 46 yds. thrice (games of 46, 69 and 98 yds.). That should debunk the “those catches are huge play, game-changer catches” argument.
DJax is too easy to take out of games, which is no good for a number 1 guy making big money.
Robert meachem
Would be better in the slot..wouldnt think he would ask for much..
by Weneedaring on Feb 15, 2012 5:37 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Justin blackmon
Although its really just a dream but trading someone n picks to move up to get em???
by Weneedaring on Feb 15, 2012 5:40 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Think this could work?
Let VJ go. Somehow bring in Reggie Wayne, aaaand Mario Williams. Draft Kendall Wright in the frist round. He might not fit our mold at wideout but the kid is nasty. Reminds me of a young Steve Smith.
Yes and no
I don’t see Norv wanting Kendall Wright, but I could be wrong. I think the idea (sign Wayne and Williams, draft 1st round WR) could work though.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
If we can get Wayne and Williams
I would let VJ walk in a heartbeat. Phillip Rivers is capable of making any WR good and we really need help on Defense.
by chargerclipperfan on Feb 15, 2012 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
If they sign Wayne and Williams then
I think o-line would need to be addressed in the first round not receiver.
"I promise you, we’re going to build a dictating, dominating, attacking defense. I’ve said it a million times. It’s not a slight on our offense, but we’re not going to win any world championship until we have that." - A.J. Smith
O-line or WR
I think, with Smith’s track record, that he has a better chance at getting a strong 2nd round O-lineman than a good 2nd round WR.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Three TE's
It is a copy cat league. Instead of chasing a direct replacement for V-Jax, I think the team should be chasing TEs. Look at what the Pats were able to do with one good TE and two below average TE’s.
Every D in the league struggles in TE coverage. Get two or three in the pattern? Forget about it. Imagine Gates boxing out a DB in single coverage on the outside? Imagine the ILBs and Safeties trying to cover two TE’s across the middle, while a speedster is slanting deep from the outside?
I think the Chargers should chase a McMichael-type journeyman FA (or keep Randy), and look for quality TE’s in the draft and UDFA. The plan should be to keep three TEs in the fall, not to recreate the twin towers.
No
That is an entirely different offense. Yes, the Pats have lots of TEs but they also have no defense to speak of and no running game either. Also, Hernandez is hardly below average.
The Packers have lots of TEs as well, but for the Chargers to load up on pass-catching TEs that can’t block (which are the guys on GB and NE) and abandon the running game would be a gigantic shift in philosophy and would take years for it to properly work (because you’d have to find all of those guys, create all new plays, teach all the new plays, etc).
This is Norv Turner’s and A.J. Smith’s last year if they can’t get the team moving in the right direction. Saying “Let’s abandon everything and start over with an entirely different philosophy” would be suicide.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
You mean Yes
We already run more multiple TE sets that most teams in the league. Having TEs who can also be more effective catching the ball would fit seamlessly into our offense. We already move Gates from the normal TE to HBack to Slot and McMichael already lines up in the backfield a lot. I don’t think it would be a stretch to think that Norv’s current offense would thrive with another above average TE or two in place of an elite WR.
The matchup issues with being able to run a power running game and spread passing attack out of the same personnel grouping is the future of the NFL.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Feb 15, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
It's slightly different
We can’t run exactly the same scheme that the Pats and Packers do because we require our TEs to do a fair amount of blocking.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Having seven cows on the line has got to help the running game
Pull the back side guard, and you’ve solved your full back problems too. I see multiple TEs on the line as a good thing for the rushing game. Just make ‘em all hold hands like the old days.
Everyone is always touting Norv as an offensive genius, let’s make him prove that he can adapt. If there was a good replacement for V-Jax (or V-Jax re-signs) I say sure let’s keep the same play book. You’ve illustrated that there really is not a re-placement for V-Jax AND there’s realy no great #1 WR choices. To me that means different personnel. Norv will need to adapt any way, why not emulate teams that have had success?
by Trendsearcher on Feb 15, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Well, let me rephrase
Gates is still the #1 WR. All we really need is a reliable deep-threat.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
2011 Price Per Fantasy Point
VJ – $61k
Crayton – $58k
Gates – $44k
Floyd – $15k
Tolbert – $11k
Brown – $10.5k
Mathews – $10.5k
I’m going to keep beating this drum , well because basically I have a one track mind. Also, it’s realllly telling.
Wow
What I take away from this is that the Patrick Crayton Experiment is DONE!
by Andy (allfield) on Feb 15, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
No question.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2012 2:42 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Well done
Great point on the team needs. If not re-signing VJax means signing Mario Williams, then it significantly improves the team.
by Kevron on Feb 15, 2012 12:52 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
If it were to come down to either a big contract to
Mario Williams or VJax I think that anyone would go with Williams. Like everyone keeps saying, Rivers can make any receiver look good, but a dominant pass-rusher can completely change a game.
"I promise you, we’re going to build a dictating, dominating, attacking defense. I’ve said it a million times. It’s not a slight on our offense, but we’re not going to win any world championship until we have that." - A.J. Smith
I like this, too, but
a quibble about the needs list. Somewhere near the top is a dominant LB. Most think the Chargers need another dominant body on the outside to compliment Philips, but I think that the inside is soft. People ran all over them last year. I also don’t agree about the TE situation. If Gates isn’t done, he’s close. And for those who say the Chargers system can’t accommodate a TE that can’t block, that is exactly what Gates was the first few years. They went out and got a beast that could block to put in on run plays. If there is a great pass-catching TE out there in the right spot, I say get him.
Not going to happen
Drafting or signing a LB now would be giving up on Jonas Mouton, and it’s way too early for that.
If there is a great pass-catching TE out therein the right spotfor the right price, I say get him.
Fixed that for you.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
I was talking about taking a TE in the draft,
the right spot being after taking care of some defensive needs. Regarding the LB situation, I forgot about Molten. But then, why wouldn’t I?
If the Chargers have a dominant passing defense
Other teams are less likely to get ahead. If those teams are throwing to catch up (which they would with our offense), they are playing to our strengths and not running the ball. Thus our rushing defense isn’t even an issue.
Of course, I’m not saying double down on passing defense and completely ignore rushing defense (unless you call yourselves the Indianapolis Colts), I’m just saying that helping the passing defense, helps the defense as a whole more than helping the rushing defense does. There reaches a point where you get less return for helping the passing defense (think of it like a logarithmic curve, hurray math! ) .
I think the point of improving the rushing defense would be to stop teams that are already in the lead from running down the clock and giving your offense a chance to catch up. But if your defense cannot stop the pass they can just keep putting up points anyway
by Ferguson1015 on Feb 15, 2012 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
passing defense
if they pressure the QB, that would certainly help the DBs. QBs had all day and more, to throw against the Chargers, with that much time any DB would get owned.
agreed
I would even be happy if the sack numbers went down, as long as the quarterback hurries went way up (although I do prefer sacks to not sacks).
If they could get consistent pressure, I think it could help this defense quite a bit.
by Ferguson1015 on Feb 15, 2012 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
Jammer i think got a bad rap, though he did have one of his worse seasons, he still was the best CB the Chargers had, and the Pass Rush certainly didnt help him.
Curtis Lofton
if he is a FA, he would be a nice addition for the Chargers LB unit.
TKO?
Would it be a good idea to resign takeo spikes?
Although curtis loften would be a great idea.!
by Weneedaring on Feb 15, 2012 5:34 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Spikes
Spikes was a good fit, imagine if the chargers got him sooner…..yeah I think Spikes has a few good years left in him, but if Lofton is available, then you gotta go with Lofton
Hmm
Dont we run a 3 – 4 defense.?
by Weneedaring on Feb 15, 2012 5:50 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
3-4
Chargers do, I think Lofton and Butler would be a very good pair of starting ILB.
I think the chargers should switch to 4-3…the original reason they said they switched to 3-4 is because the lack of talent and depth at the DL…
Spikes is still under contract.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2012 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
1 year left
he has one year left doesn’t he? I heard he might be on the chopping block though
2 years left
And, yes, they could cut him with minimal repercussions, but probably won’t.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
Jammer had just an absolutely terrible season.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
He was still probably the best CB on the team though
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."
by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2012 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
thats not saying much
wheres chromartie now oyeh sniffing rex ryans brain farts
Each of the other 3 teams in the division has a strong running game.
And they were successful running the ball against the Chargers last year. It is nonsense to say that you don’t need to defend against the run. The history of the Chargers is filled with games where they were beaten by strong defenses and strong running attacks (see, for example, 2009 (?) Chargers/Jets playoff game). Great teams still defend against both.
That's actually something I said
I’m not saying to never improve the run defense, I’m saying that improving the Pass Defense First will benefit them more in the long run. The point I’m making is essentially what those same Jets you were just talking about have done. They make defending the pass their first priority, and then they focus on the run.
I also disagree with the statement that the Chargers struggle against teams with strong running attacks (See Minnesota, Baltamore, KC, and Oakland from last season as examples). Just because a team has a strong running attack doesn’t mean they will win, they need more pieces in place than just that, such as that strong Defense that you mentioned. We The Chargers lose against those teams, not because they have some magic formula, but because they play good football.
“Cute” strategies (strategies that rely on a specific wrinkle such as the Wildcat for example) rarely work for long in the NFL. There are some viable strategies, but regardless, you still need to be able to execute those strategies in order for them to work. In other words, it is not the fact that they are doing a specific strategy, it is that they are doing a specific strategy well that defines a good team.
by Ferguson1015 on Feb 16, 2012 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
When you have a dominant offense like the Chargers do
you need to worry less about the rushing defense and more about the passing defense. Often times the Chargers will make the opposing team have to abandon the run by getting a big lead. “The best run defense is a good offense” kind of thing. A dominant pass rusher opposite Shaun Phillips is one of the key pieces this team needs to once again be a ligitimate contender.
by SoCalBoltFan on Feb 16, 2012 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
not always true
if I know the chargers are high powered offense, then I will play ball control against them. Use up the clock, that’s where I will run on them and kill time. That’s why you hear teams way of defending against Brees, Brady, or Manning is to keep them off the field….
I see what you're saying
but history will tend to agree that that’s a lot easier said than done. Teams win the time of possession battle against those teams you mentioned (and the Chargers) and still lose the game. Happens all the time.
by SoCalBoltFan on Feb 16, 2012 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
You may use up all kinds of time on a 12-15 play drive
and a high powered offense like the Chargers, Pats, Saints will come out and score in 5 plays or less.
by SoCalBoltFan on Feb 16, 2012 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
i see what you're saying
i see that happening too
Name one team in the NFL
That consistently wins with a ball control type offense.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
consistently?
i really can’t think of any. The teams that come to mind have a good defense to help. Pitt and Balt? They haven’t really been that consistently. I think when referring “Ball Control” type offense means strong running game?
most of the time "ball control" does mean running the football
and Pittsburgh is a pass first team, while Baltimore tries very hard to run a balanced offense (similar to what the Chargers run, only with a little less pass emphasis).
Ball control offenses that come to my mind are: NY Jets, Jacksonville Jaguars, Denver Broncos and the Minnesota Vikings (now and before Favre). You could argue KC and Oak, but I would say that they aren’t really run first teams, just teams with strong running backs. Also, none of those teams I mentioned win consistently.
by Ferguson1015 on Feb 17, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
The Giants don't run a ball control offense
and the other two teams you mentioned are a combined 74-86 over the last 5 seasons. That’s not consistently winning.
by SoCalBoltFan on Feb 29, 2012 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
If VJ walks
I am sure if VJ walks and a solid replacement was to come then I am sure everyone would be fine with it. The Chargers do need to sure up the defensive side of the ball, so the Cap Space should be used for that. However if VJ departs, it leaves Floyd (who can’t stay healthy), Brown (shows good promise), Goodman and Walters (who probably will be cut this year during training camp).
About the LB situation, if Curtis Lofton is a FA, i say the chargers should sign him….young and in his prime.
TE they should look for another TE, Gates foot issue, will always be an issue.
Kendall Wright
could bring a dynamic aspect to this offense that is currently lacking.
Having said that …. we need defense far worse.
Put Cotchery & PR back together.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
Anybody who says they need a WR in the first round is flat out wrong.
There are so many other needs on this team, AJ would have to go nuts and sign three to four FA players before they draft a WR in 1st. They need a OLB, a SS, a OL, a MLB, and a TE before a WR in first round. That doesn’t change if VJ stays or goes. Blackmon is the only guy they would use a 1st on and he will be gone by about pick 5. If they can find another guy in the 3rd/4th like Brown last year, that would be great!
agreed
First Round, i believe they are going with a SS or OLB, Mark Barron from Bama would be a nice pick
Barron would be a great pick and hopefully he moves down in the draft bcuz of his sports hernia…. The guy can really tackle.
BCoop
by Bleu on Feb 15, 2012 6:34 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Secondary
if they do draft him, the chargers secondary will look formidable, OLB and SS is the most important needs on defense.
Thats where the brute n braun is at. That SS is the strength of the secondary
BCoop
by Bleu on Feb 16, 2012 1:30 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
The injury is kind of bad.........
Not that he won’t fully recover, but because he’s a DB and there’s a possibility he could miss a lot of time.
I really like Barron, but I heard yesterday that his injury is going to really push him down draft boards. It’s a double sports hernia. He’s having surgery, but I heard he might not even be ready to participate in full practices by the start of the pre-season. That means no mini-camp, no training camp, possibly no pre-season. Pretty sketchy prospect if you’re drafting a DB you expect to play in the 1st round and they are going to miss the entire pre-season.
The injury is the same one Heath Miller had when he was drafted
He ended up startign 14 games and playing in all 16.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
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Not disputing he will be healthy enough to play............
But it’s my understanding DBs take longer to develop. How many CBs or Safeties, even 1st round picks are big difference makers their first years? I think it’s very few, and I think it’s because it takes some time to develop an NFL safety or CB. I’ve heard multiple people on this blog mention that Stuckey’s development was really stunted by the lockout and lack of pre-season work.
So if you’re going to take a Safety in the 1st, knowing they take time to develop, the injury is more serious because he’s going to miss all the pre-season work and be further behind developmentally. Not because he won’t be healthy.
Antwan barnes..
Having shaun phillips and antwan barnes on the outside mario on d line????
(not saying it a gonna happen) but donald butler and takeo/curtis ( loften ) in the middle..q jammer cb and antoine cason cb..eric weddle at either safety spot..n maybe tom zbikowski..? Oh and maybe bringing back louis castillo and tommie harris…tommie did a good job i thought..
Whats the thought on this??
by Weneedaring on Feb 15, 2012 6:12 PM PST via Android app reply actions
If they pick up Mario Williams
They will have him in at outside linebacker. There would probably be a rotation, especially since I’m not sure how he is in coverage.
by Ferguson1015 on Feb 16, 2012 6:26 AM PST up reply actions
?????
The way dean spanos talks bout the offseason i think he should be the one choosen who leaves and who dont..no disrespect to aj smith!..
by Weneedaring on Feb 15, 2012 6:20 PM PST via Android app reply actions
disrespect
please all disrespect to AJ please…he’s a jerk…..i think if they did bring in Mario, he’s going to start at OLB like he did for the Texans this year…if they bring him in, then Barnes is expendable, or they decide to draft OLB….or draft SS
I think there is a very good chance that VJ will be playing somewhere else next season
and if it is because another team gives him a huge five year deal then I don’t think the chargers have much of a choice but to let him go.
Not really buying your reasons though; I don’t think that AJ has some end game date of 2016. You mention his age then mention a list of free agents that are his age or older.
Not real big on the idea of bringing in Wayne and a 1st round pick to replace him either, if you are going to spend that much on the position to replace him you might as well keep him instead.
VJ is the best WR on the team and the team is not as good without him on the team, no matter what spin is put on it. That being sad if Rivers plays up to his standard next season, and I think he will, this team wins the division and has a chance in an AFC that to me seems a little weaker now than it has been in the past.
Interesting idea, but...
How many hats are you willing to guarantee?
Balogna!!!!
almost everything said is funny, Why sign him to long term deal because of age? but wayne will be ok for short term. I am asuming 2 or 3 years, he will be the same age as Jackson when his long term deal expires. you throw out stats about plays over 40 yards 2011 he had almost 50% of them by all means 2010 was low maybe becuase he held out, and missed 1 game to injury and half of another, and then 2009 almost 50% of plays over 40 yards were by him. Yeah he does not mean much to the offense, especially when we have Floyd who is good for 6 games a year! Gates whom I hope will be healthy! and do not want to have to rely on practice squad players to push us into playoffs. and there was also stats on how Chargers were ranked in passing game, MAYBE BECAUSE WE WERE DEAD LAST IN RUSHING! you got to be kidding me with this crap!
I don't think he was saying that Jackson "doesn't mean much to the offense".
He was saying that the Chargers have other weapons besides Jackson (so it’s not like they won’t be able to move the ball at all without him), and at 10 mil/year (most likely what jackson will want), the Chargers would be better off addressing more pressing needs such as OLB or OT.
by SoCalBoltFan on Feb 16, 2012 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
What about Dwayne Bowe?
He’s going to be a FA and I didn’t see him on your list of available WRs.
Vince Jackson
Hey fans, Vince is done with AJ Smith in San Diego!
If he is smart ( and he is), he headed north to be a 49er! He will not be penny piched and will get a fair market deal! In return, he becomes the lead wideout as part of a winning west coast pass offense, becomes part of a play-off team with a real chance for ring next year! Vince, you will find Love in San Francisco! So tell your agent to get the deal done!
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Please, call me StrangeBro.
by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 16, 2012 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's the solution...
Let go of Vjax because the price/length of contract vs. age is too much and is not worth the overpriced years of the age 32+…
Then address WR in the draft by getting Alshon Jeffery in 1st Rd, after all he is actually being labeled as more of a threat than Justin Blackmon according to some mock drafts and opinions from top sources.
With the money saved go out and get Mario Williams and maybe Ben Grubbs, as well as a few other less expensive free agents or needs through the draft…
Your thoughts…?
..my thought
I like it..getting ben grubbs is unlikely..ravens are gonna try to re sign him but getting grubbs would mean an easier descions when it comes down to shifting the line around meaning the rumor of releasing marcus m. And kris dielman leaving and resigning jared gaither…i love the mario williams idea..
by In need of the trophy on Feb 17, 2012 1:11 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Needs
V jak is gone no doubt about it. Say what you want about Djax but he put up bigger numbers earlier in his career with a qb that is not famous for either his consistency or sheer throwing ability. I’m sure a lot of those games that make up that 33% (of games with less than 2 receptions) are related to vicks inconsistency or health issues. Vjack’s contract will be over inflated bc phil puts up big numbers. Our receiving core was called laxidasical djax don’t fill that description. AJ prob won’t like him longterm but thats irrelevant bc he need to secure his job before he worries about going back into contract negotiations. If we cut vj 4 dj i can justify giving norv and aj an extension
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
people have mentioned our troubles at olb but i think our rushing unit got screwed last year. Castillo phillips and english were injured and luiget and thomas should continue to improve. Look for the front office to some how pull in a solid coverage/goaline DB this year in FA a pass rusher in the first round and two linemen in the 2nd and 3rd. either dielman or mcneil will comeback prob not both
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