2012 NFL Draft - Scouting for Future Chargers: Senior Bowl Review
To many, the Senior Bowl is just another game with college players. Maybe if you're a fan of one of the players because of your affiliation with a school, you tune in to see that guy play with his college team's helmet on one last time. For NFL scouts and internet draftniks it's a multi-day scouting process that starts with the weigh-ins on day 1, progresses to the practices and then culminates with the actual game (which many scouts don't even attend). In today's NFL draft news cycle every part of this process is televised in some fashion with NFL Network's Mike Mayock guiding you along the way.
It's sort of an odd scouting experience. Some of the best players choose to skip the whole thing (although this seems to have become rarer) and other top prospects can't be invited because they weren't seniors. So, you end up left with a hodgepodge of top talent mixed with players that could go anywhere from day 2 of the draft to potentially undrafted. Nevertheless, it's still the best collection of talent put together where players run real NFL drills, get coached by real NFL staffs (this year it was the Redskins and Vikings coaching staffs) and play in a somewhat competitive, slightly modified (some rules match the Pro Bowl), NFL-style (College-specific rules are not used) game.
Leading up to the game, those with boots on the ground in Mobile, Alabama keep an eye for which team's scouts are talking to which prospects. The great guys over at DraftCountdown.com track all this at the Senior Bowl Headquarters page. You can either click on those links to find out what they saw or check out the list here after the jump.
A lot of the media focus at the Senior Bowl is bestowed upon the quarterbacks. They are easy to watch and fun to project. However, this year a lot of the buzz was on a postion the Chargers need: Pass Rushers. The big three of Quinton Coples, Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram got a lot of attention at practices and in the game. They all seemed to impress enough that I'm pretty confident they will now all be gone by the time the Chargers pick barring a bunch of teams reaching for bigger needs. However, there still was some love thrown around for guys like Marshall's Vinny Curry and 3-4 experienced Cam Johnson from Virginia. Both could be targets for the Chargers on Day 2.
Getting back to 1st round possibilities, Ohio State's OT Mike Adams impressed many in practices. The buzz seems to be that he's now in the 1st round mix. That being said, the game tape from this season isn't all that impressive and makes you wonder how he can be so good in practice, but not as good in games. If there is something to be fixed, the Chargers are a good landing spot since he can apprentice Marcus McNeill and maybe play some OG as a rookie. Also, on the offensive line there is Georgia's Cordy Glenn who I talked about in this earlier article. He showed scouts that he can handle the LT position, but most still see his best work in the NFL coming at OG or RT.
Here's who DraftCountdown.com saw talking with Chargers Scouts:
- Vinny Curry, DE/OLB, Marshall
- Lavonte David, OLB/ILB, Nebraska
- Mitchell Schwartz, OT, California
- Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington
- Jamell Fleming, CB, Oklahoma
- Johnnie Troutman, OG, Penn St.
- Leonard Johnson, CB, Iowa St.
- Matt McCants, OT, UAB
- Nigel Bradham, OLB/ILB, Florida St.
- Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama
- Ryan Lindley, QB, San Diego St.
- Harrison Smith, SS, Notre Dame
- Shea McClellin, DE/OLB, Boise St.
- Emil Igwenagu, FB, Massachussetts
My thoughts on this list would be that the Chargers are looking closely at the right positions. There's a couple pass rushers and other LBs in the mix. CB and OL could use depth. FB and NT are positions with question marks. And I've always like the idea of developing a backup QB for Rivers and Ryan Lindley might fit that bill.
Some other notes I have is that I liked some of what I saw from Oklahoma St. S Markelle Martin. If the Chargers want a more rangey safety than an in-the-box bruiser, then he could draw interest. I listed him as a 3rd round pick before, but I think he could be in the 2nd round conversation. Some WRs looked good. Iowa WR Marvin McNutt caught almost everything in sight. He's a day 2 option as is Arkansas' Joe Adams who made some very difficult catches during the actual game. ILB Bobby Wagner played in a 3-4 at Utah State and could fit nicely in the mix in San Diego after getting good reviews in Mobile.
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the list of guys we met with last year
from bolthype
one thing to remember about the senior bowl is that there aren’t any underclassmen there, so a guy like Liuget won’t appear on the radar.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Jan 31, 2012 9:17 AM PST reply actions
Interesting
Kerrigan was gone by the time they picked and looked good this season. That guy Gilchrist and Brown seem to ring a bell somewhere. Both look like they will develop well and just need more experience in this system.
by Ferguson1015 on Jan 31, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I concur, Vinny Curry looked really good in that game
Heck, I wouldn’t mind picking OLB in the 1st and another one later in the draft…you can never have enough pass rushers
Lavonte David, OLB/ILB, Nebraska
Half Strong Safety / Half Outside Linebacker – can we use him in our scheme? Will our DEs be able to protect him? He has decent coverage, very good range, and is a pretty “heady” player. I just don’t know if his (to me) diminished size will prevent him from being an every-down OLB in our system.
He seems similar to Mouton to me in that way.
I only list him as OLB/ILB because he played OLB in college. In my Scouting For Future Chargers series I called him a 3-4 ILB.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
He wouldn't work at a pass rushing OLB
But he does look like a good football player. He could work as some kind of hybrid ILB/SS like you mention. It would take a good DC to make the most of his talents.
I thought Melvin Ingram was very underwhelming in the Senior Bowl
Based on the hype I expected a lot more from Ingram and Upshaw during that game.
When matched up against Mike Adams, Upshaw was neutralized and couldn’t do much against the run or the pass. Ingram was practically non-existent the entire game. It is rumored that both excelled in one-on-one’s during the week but that failed to show in the game.
I wouldn’t say that Upshaw’s performance hurt his draft status, but I don’t think it boosted him up any higher either. His sack came when the QB held the ball too long. Ingram however, moved down draft boards with his performance, IMO.
I think a lot of the evaluations come from the practices, not the game itself
Which is where Upshaw and Ingram supposedly shined last week.
Ingram looks like a pick based on potential. He’s a really good athlete in a big frame, and I think teams are hoping they can build him into a complete player. Upshaw looks like a much surer bet as an all around solid player, but with less potential to be an elite pass rusher.
I’m wary of the bolts getting either one, but if I had to pick I’d prefer Upshaw.
I agree that Upshaw is lower risk, and was thinking that Ingram was higher reward
but I didn’t watch the practices, I watched the game, and Ingram was not impressive.
Also, I’m not positive how the practices were structured, but the North definitely had the better offensive line prospects, so if Ingram only matched up with the South offensive line prospects in practice maybe that’s why he looked better in practice, and didn’t look good during the game.
Also, I see Ingram being used as a bit of a “joker” type of player…a guy that can line up at any LB position on the 3-4 defense depending on situation, as well as anywhere along the DLine in a 4-3 (for nickel situations). You are right that he is very athletic for his size, which I’m sure the combine will validate, but was not impressed with his performance at the Senior Bowl. Maybe its a good thing, might be just enough to get him to drop to 18.
It was interesting
Because all week the practice reports were raving about how great the South D-line was with Coples, Upshaw, Ingram and co (one NFL official supposedly said that the South’s line was better than his teams current starting lineup). From what I understand most of the practices were heavy on 1 on 1 lineman battles (at least one website even listed the winners and losers of these matchups).
Then the game came around and, while they did play ok, they didn’t dominate like you might expect. Of course, there’s a big difference between 1 on 1 pass protection drills and live game action.
I am encouraged by the fact that there appear to be other solid OLB prospects who might be had in rounds 2-4, in the event we don’t get either of these players.
They mostly do. Some scouts don't even bother with the game after all.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Jan 31, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Please, not Lindley
I like him as an Aztec, but he’s not shown that he has the tools to be a successful pro quarterback— his lack of aim is particularly distressing.
Yakety Sax: Making divisional matchups hilarious since 1963.
Gaslamp Ball: SMELLS LIKE PROSPECTS IN HERE
Please, call me StrangeBro.
by StrangeBroP25 on Jan 31, 2012 12:08 PM PST via mobile reply actions
He had receiver issuers last year -
He looked a LOT more accurate when he had Brown and Sampson last year; guys that he had worked with for a couple of seasons…
North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.
by SDNativeinTX on Jan 31, 2012 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
There were so many drops this past season.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Jan 31, 2012 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
It's not like he'd start right away.
Every developmental QB is going to have flaws.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
I don't see Lindley ever getting past 3rd string in the NFL
Even when he had two NFL WRs, a dominate RB, an all MWC TE, and one of the best OCs in the country he still had a completion % well below 60%
I would tend to agree
I just included him because the Chargers talked about him. Also, none of us are professional football scouts.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
I also really liked Joe Adams as a slot WR and PR/KR
He looked like the best receiver on the field, and all the CB’s knew it as they were all giving him a huge cushion.
I liked Isaiah Pead too as a returner, he had some great punt returns.
Chris Rainey has some serious speed and didn’t really get to showcase it during the game except for one end-around, he could be a good returner for the Bolts too. He could also make a decent slot guy but word on the street is that he wants to be a runningback…but I think he’d make a good wildcard type of player like Dexter McCluster
Bobby Wagner
would be a great p/u to pair with Butler. Very fluid,instinctive guy,always around the ball.
I see Ingram as a 4-3 DE. Upshaw is more of a 3-down,3-4 OLB.
Joe Adams would look great in bolts. The Cal WR (can’t recall his name now) also impressed.
Reyes out of Connecticut was another guy I saw listed that we spoke with. Had a good week & could fit as a 5-tech.
I’m not that high on Ta’amu. Poe has much more upside even though he’stall for a NT. Could move him around like B’more does with Ngata.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
Marvin Jones is the Cal WR you are referring to
and word coming out of the practices are that he has HUGE hands…great thing for a WR, I guess.
Interesting, coming out of that game I am very high on Ta’amu. Prototypical NT size, yet above average mobility for a man that size, will collapse the pocket up the middle every time.
Thank you
yes, Marvin Jones.
Ta’amu got stood up plenty of times throughout the year. I realize that conditioning is an issue for any man that size, but once he starts to tire his pad level goes up &he can be handled by one guy.
Poe, largely due to height, has an issue with pad level at times. But his length also gives him an advantage in creating leverage & demanding double-teams. I simply think that he has a higher upside than Ta’amu.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
by Buck Melanoma on Jan 31, 2012 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Oh okay, haven't seen him play enough to notice his stamina
I think he’d be great splitting time with Cam Thomas though
Also had my eye on a couple safeties there:
Antonio Allen and Brandon Taylor both made some plays and would be worth a second look…both seem like upgrades to Gregory.
Taylor is interesting
As I mentioned in one of the Scouting For Future Chargers post, he was very much overshadowed at LSU because of the elite talent in their secondary. That doesn’t mean he can’t play though.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
If Garay is not coming back, Alameda Ta'amu looked like a stellar NT in the making
He’s very athletic and aglie for 340 pounds, demanded double teams on every play, and still created disruption in the backfield.
TE!
A TE is so important to the CHARGERS offense it is crazy that is what we lacd in the beginning of the season. We have to get a young ,athletic, physical TE. If Gates was healthy and in his top football form all season alot of things would of ben different bcuz opposing defenses would of had to switch up there gameplan. Not having a good TE tandem caused PR17 to always have to checcdowm to RM24 & MT35 which was cool but it would of made there offense more potent with good TE play, on top of a passing game coming out the baccfield
BCoop
by Bleu on Feb 2, 2012 9:24 AM PST via Android app reply actions


































