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Updated Grades for San Diego Chargers 2011 Draft

On ESPN Insider, Mel Kiper went back and re-graded the 2011 draft (subscription required) for every team including the San Diego Chargers. According to the network's long time resident draft guru, the Chargers don't look as good in hindsight as they did at the time of the draft. Part of this has to do with some of the relative optimism that Kiper had for the Chargers draft compared to his colleagues. He liked a lot of the players that others thought were reaches. It also has to do with liking long term potential over short term impact. In any case the grade went from a B+ to a C+.

I can understand this assessment, but I can also note some flaws in its approach. If I'm trying to grade the Chargers draft and I only use the 2011 season, then I'd probably give the Chargers a C. If I start to think that I still like some of the upside of the players, then I'll bump it up to a C+, giving extra weight to the performances we've already seen. However, how many players were thought to actually make an impact this season? I'd argue that most, including Mel Kiper, didn't really think that many of the draft picks would come in a contribute at a high level in 2011. Sure, there was a chance, but it wasn't the expectation. So, if you're trying to grade a draft, that was mostly based on post-2011 potential then why drop the team a letter grade?

A lot of the decision involving Chargers draft grades revolves down to 1st round Corey Liuget. Here's what was said about Corey in the re-grade article:

The prize of this class was Corey Liuget early, but, although he had his moments this season, I expected a little more from him in terms of overall production. He jumped off the tape in preseason... If Liuget develops -- and he has a lot of talent -- this class will look better.

I'll give my take on these comments as well as a look at some of the Chargers other picks, after the jump.

Star-divide

Corey Liuget, 1st round, 18th overall, DE

That's a lot to put on a guy who wasn't even a top 15 pick, plays a position known for not getting a lot of glory and held down a starting job the entire season. I do agree with Kiper's assessment of the 1st rounder's overall production in 2011 though. You saw flashes of a star player and then we went to the regular season, where he became about as visible as Igor Olshanksy was in all his years playing the same position with the Chargers. Which is to say, not very visible. Given though that Liuget came out early, created no liability at his position and even Mel Kiper still believes that the kid has upside, I don't think it should change the grade. He went from unproven college player with potential to NFL starter with potential. That seems more like status quo than a drop in the grade.

Marcus Gilchrist, 2nd round, 50th overall, CB

Mel doesn't say much about Gilchrist other than his number of games played and that he "finished the season atop the depth chart". Not sure what that means. Gilchrist seemed to be mishandled by the coaching staff. Known for his kick and punt returns he didn't get a chance to do either. He was behind Dante Hughes on the depth chart as a nickel corner even though that seemed like his best position. He struggled replacing Antoine Cason in a role he's not really suited for (or at least not yet). He now looks to be the nickel corner in 2012. A strange year for Gilchrist, but he still seems on track to make an impact similar to what was expected.

Jonas Mouton, 2nd round, 61st overall, LB

Mouton never saw the field in 2011, but had the reputation of being a bad pick from the moment he was drafted. Losing a year is never a positive, but we've seen how a player can bounce back from that before (see: Donald Butler) and Jonas was never expected to start in 2011 anyway.

Vincent Brown, 3rd round, 82nd overall, WR

When talking about the 3rd round, you aren't talking about a lot of players that make big rookie impacts. By my count maybe 3 of the 3rd rounders taken in 2011 made big impacts and all were taken before Brown was drafted. Given that criteria and seeing some performances from Vincent that show that he's a potential offensive threat in the NFL, I'd have to say the Chargers did pretty well for themselves. Kiper's comment of "Vincent Brown had some moments but isn't ready to start." seems a little too critical.

Shareece Wright, 3rd round, 89th overall, CB

Wright was always an upside pick. He missed time in college, but had shown some talent that could project him to being an NFL starting CB. He spent most of this year being inactive for games, as you would expect of a player who is a project. What I'm getting at is there is almost no way as an outsider to say whether he's on schedule or behind. He's certainly not ahead of schedule though.

Jordan Todman, 6th round, 183rd overall, RB

This is definitely a busted pick. I still think Todman can produce in the NFL, but the Chargers let him get picked up by the Vikings midseason for reasons only known by them.

Stephen Schilling, 6th round, 201st overall, OG

Schilling spent time on the PS and stepped up to the big boys squad when injuries plagued the offensive line. I'd still give him at least a year to see if he can become a solid backup. It's not a standout pick but, like Shareece Wright, it's hard to know if he's on track or already a bust. 6th rounders are kind of a crap shoot anyway.

Andrew Gachkar, 7th round, 234th, ST

You can probably make a defensible claim that Gachkar made an impact in almost every game this season. Special teamers get overlooked, but Andrew was out there doing his best to make sure the Chargers weren't the horrendous unit that took the field in 2010. I'd say that's a pretty big impact for a pick this late in the draft. He's probably the one player the Chargers took that we know met expectations and possibly exceeded them.

Conclusion:

When reassessed you see a bunch of guys that seemingly are on track with where they could reasonably expect them to be. You also have one guy who was lost to another team and a 7th rounder who is making an impact. However, you could start to quibble that Liuget should have started to show a little more in 2011, that Gilchrist should have looked better when thrust into a starting role and Mouton won't be helped by his lost season. Given all that it makes sense to downgrade the Chargers draft. Maybe a half a letter grade, but I won't get too mad at Mel for taking it down a full one. Especially since he admitted that maybe the grade was too optimistic to begin with.

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Mock Draft

1) Courtney Upshaw, LB, Alabama

2) Billy Winn, DL, Boise State

3) Amini Silatolu, OG, Midwestern State

4) Ladarius Green, TE, La.-Lafayette

5) Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU

6) Hebron Fangupo, DL, BYU

7) Chris Galippo, ILB, USC

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 2:08 PM PST reply actions  

My favorite part of this is that we won’t draft one of these guys. And that is not a knock on you, but just the reality of AJ (and staff) tendencies.

by BFDC on Jan 12, 2012 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

yea i know

they never draft the people we want

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

some picks just make me wonder what they were thinking

i remember wanting rey maualuga and then they took larry english

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

While I was in the same boat, looking back on it, the decision makes sense

3-4 ILB’s are easier to find than pass-rushing 3-4 OLB’s. When you have a chance at a player that could be the next elite pass rusher, you take it.

I would argue that an elite 3-4 OLB has a much bigger impact on a game than an elite 3-4 ILB. Sure, that ILB may help shut down the running game and cause a fumble from time to time or maybe grab an INT occasionally, but he would need a good DLine in front of him to keep him free. However, an elite 3-4 OLB will cause more turnovers through rushing the passer causing INT’s, sacks, and sack fumbles…much more of an impact.

I don’t fault AJ at all for taking the shot at getting an elite OLB instead of ILB for a 3-4 defense.

by jkvandal on Jan 12, 2012 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I've started to come to this conclusion as well

To the point where I think pass rushers are being undervalued in the draft. Especially one dimensional, rotation types.

This has made me go back and revise my opinion on the English draft. They definitely should have targeted OLB, even if some felt the player was a reach. However, in hindsight, they probably just chose the wrong one.

I won’t even debate about Clay Matthews. I went back and read his scouting reports. There really was no reason to think he’d be a pass rushing threat at the OLB. Kind of crazy, huh?

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not surprised about Matthews

I remember that Cushing and Maualuga were getting much more attention as future NFL linebackers than Matthews was. There may have been one or two scouts that projected Matthews to be what he has become, but the vast majority did not see thiat coming.

There are a few positions that I can really never fault a team for taking a chance on a guy: Pass rusher, quarterback, and shutdown corner. When you have an elite player at any one of those positions it drastically impacts the rest of the team. If you don’t have an impact player at those positions, you have to take a guy in the draft that gives you the best chance at adding one to your roster.

by jkvandal on Jan 12, 2012 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

i like melvin ingram.

i feel upshaw will rise up boards out of our reach

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

me too i prefer upshaw

but don’t know if he’ll be there…a lot of ppl have us taking nick perry tho

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

i dont want another conversion player

pick a guy who already plays 3-4 olb not someone we have to teach like english. we can see how well that went

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Those are extremely rare

Only a handful of teams play the 3-4 in college. And many don’t run the same sort of system as the Chargers (SMU for instance likes smallish pass rushing DL in theirs)

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 5:21 PM PST up reply actions  

they found von miller somwehere

didnt they. wasnt it texas a&m? and to my understanding he played standing up rushing the qurterback off the edge.

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Yup

He was a rare find. He also went #3 overall, if you recall.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I like Perry

I think he may rise like Von Miller did though.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno

for some reason Upshaw just doesn’t strike me as a guy that will be a good pass rusher at the next level. Not sure he has the speed to get around the corner on the tackles in the NFL, but there’s a good chance I’m entirely wrong.

by jkvandal on Jan 12, 2012 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

And the fact that we have no idea if any of those guys will be available at those picks or if they project as values at them.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Jan 12, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

would at least want to get one of those guys

but AJ always seem to surprise me sometimes which is sometimes good and bad

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Upshaw

Do you really think Upshaw will be around when the bolts pick???

by Nicky Mac on Jan 12, 2012 4:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I like it

Thanks for the analysis Wonko. I love articles that analyze like this

by Ferguson1015 on Jan 12, 2012 2:14 PM PST reply actions  

3 years.

At least. That’s what you need to have any kind of meaninful review of a draft class. Most guys don’t start or contribute right away (hell, a good percentage of draft picks don’t make it through camp!). Even those that do play will almost always start small and improve with experience over the years. Look at VJ. or Weddle. or Rivers. or Brees. Or whoever you like.

Add that to the fact that there are so many player at so many positions, most of which don’t really generate meaninful stats, and Kiper’s analysis can’t help but be fatally flawed.

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 2:15 PM PST reply actions  

No one ever claimed that this review would be meaningful

Ha.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

true

experts said cam newton would be a bust and he proved them wrong or that tebow couldn’t be a starting QB in the NFL

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

My thought on Newton

Is that running a lot was already getting him hurt in college and that it would again in the NFL, hurting his long term prospects. The fact that he made it through his rookie season mostly unscathed and putting up numbers should not be a surprise.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

And the jury is still out on those guys as well

3 years, at least. Just ask Vince Young, or Aaron Rodgers.

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Gilchrist

Seems like he will develop into a good player, especially if he plays more man bump coverage as opposed to Manuskys zone.

by BFDC on Jan 12, 2012 2:24 PM PST reply actions  

This

I was hoping to see more of him or Cason. Crayton didn’t do a whole lot.

TBD

by IputtheYinTony on Jan 12, 2012 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

oh lord, our punt returning was ....

most def a wtf? move with crayton returning, my buddy said he had some wiggles, but it looked more like he had arthritis.

"Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow."- Zappa

by QuesaDiaz on Jan 12, 2012 9:57 PM PST up reply actions  

tell me about it

should at least get someone in the 7th that specializes at returns

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see that changing

Rivera did a lot of zone too. And so did Cottrell and Phillips before him. Can’t imagine Pagano making that kind of change from his predecessors.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

His players aren't as good.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Jan 12, 2012 4:02 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

FS might be the only position where the Chargers are as good as the Ravens on defense.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Jan 12, 2012 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

haha i know

i hope they at least move jammer to SS

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would you move a guy

That plays a position where coverage is the most important thing to a position where run stopping and hitting are the most important. Seems like a misuse of skills.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

he sort of lost a step

and at SS he will be able to read and react more and can still help out with the run

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

It would make more sense

If you said FS, but like Richard mentioned, we are set there. Plus, it’s not like the Chargers have someone better than Jammer waiting in the wings.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd think of it as a compliment to Jammer

He’s good at hitting and run stopping, which is why some people think he could move over to SS

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Run stopping, maybe

Hitting though? Really?

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Because he can't cover?

Go read this article: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/cornerbacks-a-glance-at-the-2011-numbers/

After reading that tell me that DB (specifically CB) is not a need?! With stats like that it makes you wonder if Q-Jam is even fit to play SS!

by MacDeezul on Jan 13, 2012 6:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Best player on the board in the first two rounds is what AJ needs to do

If Bufict is on the board and AJ passes on him because of his non good samaritan standing, I’ll know we are not commited to winning. Burfict could be reigned in playing behind Spikes. Patrick Willis and Donald Butler attribute learning how to be an NFL professional from Takeo’s mentoring example.

by Daryl Peek on Jan 12, 2012 3:57 PM PST reply actions  

don't forget novarro bowman who also learned from spikes

burficit would be the hitter we need to spark our defense

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

If he's so great..

Why would he be available at 18?

And suppse we pass on this clear head case in favor of a better player who will actually help the team, does that mean we aren’t “committed to winning”?

All draft picks are made with winning in mind. If you pass on a guy with bad character, its because you think his flaws are likely to hurt the team

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

It's a crap shoot picking any player in the draft

My problem is AJ has missed on defensive picks with his choir boy stanza more than hit over the past 4 years.

by Daryl Peek on Jan 12, 2012 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

This is ridiculous.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Jan 12, 2012 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

The grain of truth in this statement is very small.

AJ has sometimes passed on highly talented players because of perceived off-the-field risks. Sometimes these guys pan out. I don’t think this reflects badly on him at all.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 12, 2012 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

think about the great defensive players

Suggs, Harrison, Lewis, Farrior, Urlacher, Willis

theyre all psychopaths. for a reason! I would draft the best combination of aggression and talent i could find when your put into the situation you guys are talking about

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

if u think about it

a lot of the best defensive players are borderline crazy

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

thats my point

i like that. I would look for that. unfortunately it comes across as character concerns.

going to the NFL is about learning i would have my young defensive players learn how to control that aggression so they dont get arrested. other than that its good

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Psychopaths?

Hardly. And Harrison wasn’t a 1st round pick like the others anyway. All those players had very little character issues coming out of college. Willis is practically a perfect gentleman.

Burfict is known for hurting his team with personal fouls. And I’m not talking about James Harrison, I’m gonna take you out because that’s part of the game flags. I’m talking, I’m gonna fight you after the whistle is blown and my teammates are holding me back type of stuff. He almost didn’t play in his team’s bowl game because he had upset people on his team so much.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 5:26 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

well i mean theyre arent manson psychopaths

but i was going more for the idea of people more on the edge. off kilter

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a difference

Between aggression and bad character. Except for Harrison (who I think gets a bad rap) all of those guys are aggressive but also in control.

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Except Ray Lewis who killed a guy.

(maybe)

A pirate I was meant to be!
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scheming, thieving, bad bushwackers?
From what I've seen I tell you
You're not pirates, you're just slackers!"

by Zach (maestro876) on Jan 12, 2012 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm aware of that

But did he ever get a flag for killing a guy on the field?

Seriously though, I’m as amazed as anyone that the whole world seems to have forgotten Lewis’s incident. It should have ended his career, but it didn’t. All things being equal, we wouldn’t want a potential murderer on the roster.

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Psychopaths?

Psychopathy is a very specific (and generally unscientific) term which refers to people with an established pattern of anti-social behavior, among other things. It’s highly unlikely that such a person would have the foresight and commitment to reach the NFL level. An anger problem, or excessive testosterone, do not describe any measure of psychopathy. If you meant “Psychotic”, which is completely different, you’re probably reaching for some kind of hyperbole. I would hope so, at least.

"Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?"

by aesimpleton on Jan 12, 2012 8:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes you grasped my meaning.

I was going for an exaggeration. I was merely expressing my feeling that the team lacks that intimidation factor that overly aggressive players sometimes bring. Which would be a nice thing to have I feel.

On a side note, the last guy to have that was Merriman and does anyone know if he had character issues coming out of college?

by bstew95 on Jan 12, 2012 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree I just hope

that a SS or CB is one of them. And because there seams to be more of a talent drop-off from the 1st to the 2nd when it comes to DBs I hope there is a terrifically talented one waiting for us in the 1st….. But if the talent isn’t there don’t reach for him, its just not worth it.

by MacDeezul on Jan 13, 2012 6:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll be honest, I was never really sold on Todman

although I agree that he provided great value in the 6th round. I have no problem at all with the Chargers taking a chance on him when he was there in the 6th round, and I would probably encourage the team to do it again. But from the day I saw him at the first open training camp he just really didn’t impress me and preseason only confirmed that he could gain yards when he caught the ball and was wide open or when there were huge holes from the line, which is something just about any RB can do. I like the kid but just don’t think he had a place on this roster this season, which is most likely why the Bolts let him go.

Really the only guy left on the board at the point that Todman was selected that I really wanted the Chargers to take was Greg Romeus because I thought the team needed more pass rushers but he has done just about as much as Todman…which is not much.

I think the team was perhaps taking Todman with the hopes that he would show he had what it takes and he could have slid in as the replacement for Tolbert in 2012 and I really can’t fault them at all for that.

by jkvandal on Jan 12, 2012 4:07 PM PST reply actions  

I'm just not sure what the point was in keeping Brinkley over Todman

I’m sure there was some marginal value that Brinkley could provide in what was mostly a lost cause for the playoffs, but it seems like the long term value of developing Todman would have been a better choice. Especially with Tolbert headed to FA. And if Todman wasn’t going to make it, then why keep him on the PS at all?

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

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by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions  

brinkley eased the pain of the departure of todman

but would of liked to see them give todman more chances or see what he can do after a whole off season

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see much upside in Brinkley.

And he won’t help ease the (potential) departure of Tolbert. Plus, Brinkley looked terrible against the Raiders. Have to wonder how Todman would have looked.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually like Curtis Brinkley over Todman

Todman is just…an average runningback. The biggest detriment I saw with Todman was that he wasn’t quick. I’m not talking about speed…more like acceleration from a standstill. Brinkley has more of that, and that’s really vital to have at the top level.

by Falawful on Jan 12, 2012 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

If Todman was an average running back

Then we should have kept him. Average running backs don’t grow on trees. By definition that means that somewhere near half the running backs in football are worse than them.

I suspect he was not an average running back and since you seem to think Brinkley is better and Brinkley is decidedly below average, then I believe you also think that.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

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by Wonko on Jan 13, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

True I'll give you that

Todman has more upside than Brinkley.

The only reason I can think of for keeping Brinkley over Todman is if he knew pass protections better from being around longer. Since Mathews wasn’t that great at picking up the blitz to start the season maybe the team was nervous they wouldn’t have a back that could block if Tolbert went down…but that’s a bit of a stretch.

by jkvandal on Jan 12, 2012 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I know there were pros to keeping Brinkley

But, all of them were related to trying to make the 2011 team marginally better. Not sure that making the 2011 team marginally better at that point in the season should have been as high a priority as it was.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

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by Wonko on Jan 12, 2012 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

In retrospect that PS position could have been better spent on a different position.

by jkvandal on Jan 12, 2012 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Makes sense

But the team only had to be marginally better to make the playoffs. He had a good game against the Chiefs. IIRC he pretty much took over when he came in and we went on the drive to tie the game. If River’s doesn’t fumble the snap, his "marginal" contribution is enough to give us a winning season and a trip to the playoffs. Whether or not we would of done anything in the playoffs is another issue.

by SuperSalami on Jan 13, 2012 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think you quite understand what I mean by marginal

I don’t mean that when he contributes his performance is only slightly better than a hole in the ground. I mean that compared to Todman or some other RB on the fringe on the NFL his contribution would be marginal. One could argue that Todman would have helped get the Chargers in the same position in that Chiefs. We’ll never know though.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 13, 2012 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I believe the story was

Todman was constantly hurt.

Could be wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

a href="http://www.sbnation.com/users/Richard%20Wade">Richard Wade - "I feel like me from four years ago would punch present me in the face. I like to think that's because I've grown as a person."

by John Gennaro on Jan 12, 2012 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Offensive draft picks

I believe we will draft an O-lineman and a RB in the 2012 draft(in the mid rounds) If a Montee Ball is still around in the 3rd the chargers should think about it. We have a true fullback on the practice squad and I honestly think Tolbert or Hester will be let go.(at least one of them) TE is a position that I think can be addressed with udfa’s. The rest of the draft/FA should be used on Defense!
Any thoughts?

by Lightning619 on Jan 12, 2012 6:32 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Montee ball will still be undrafted by the 3rd round

Problem is he won’t be draft eligible until 2013. He’s going back for his senior year.

by CABurrito on Jan 12, 2012 7:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Lol, your right. I completely forgot about that. I still think the Bolts will be looking for a decent change of pace back in the draft!

by Lightning619 on Jan 12, 2012 8:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

if you want one in the early rounds then

we should get lamichael james if you want one towards the end of the draft then we can probably get chris rainey or jeff demps out of florida in the 7th or as a UFA

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I love L. James but I think we need to be looking for a bruiser. And I want to see RM24 come outa the offseason ready to be an everydown back. If we let hester walk I would love to see frank summers take over fullback duties and punch some holes for Ryan.

by Lightning619 on Jan 12, 2012 8:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

i can see that happening

plus i don’t want to risk a 2nd rd pick on offense…but i would like to rainey he has good hands and lined up at the slot sometimes during his time in florida

by chargerclipperfan on Jan 12, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions  

FRANK DA TANK

I’ve been waiting all year to yell that. He seems like the kind of guy whose playing style could get the team fired up. Not a whackjob like Burfict, but an intimidator— much like LoNeal.

Regarding Burfict, there’s no denying he’s fearsome, but I don’t know that I’d want to gamble on a guy like that. Maybe he could benefit from an attitude adjustment under Pagano and Spikes, but maybe he could also rack up an enormous amount of flags and fines. I’d rather take a more disciplined guy with a rep as a hard worker, like Kuechly or Hightower. Perhaps a lower reward, but certainly a lower risk.

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Please, call me StrangeBro.

by StrangeBroP25 on Jan 12, 2012 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

As much as I like handyman hester, I think it's time to let him go

and bring someone new in. Hester’s good at 3rd/4th and 1, he’s pretty good at pass-catching, and he does the job at fullback, but it’s a monetary issue, and I think that the dropoff at fullback relative to the cost wouldn’t be as meaningful as attaining a superior defensive piece for that cost drop. But what do I know, Tolbert might get dropped and a similar back brought in via the draft. It’s all a dollars and sense issue

by Falawful on Jan 12, 2012 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Cason Camp

Antoine Cason will be holding his annual, 4 day 3 night, football camp from June 29-July 2 at The University of San Diego, in San Diego, CA. He will also be holding a 2 day camp from July 6-7 at Edison High School in Huntington Beach, CA. Go to www.footballcamps.com

by SI FOOTBALL CAMPS on Jan 13, 2012 8:11 AM PST reply actions  

If you'd like this to be more visible

I suggest using the Fan Shot feature.

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

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by Wonko on Jan 13, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I wonder if the camp will have a

“How to cover tall WR’s in the redzone day”

by jkvandal on Jan 13, 2012 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

It will consist of a shoulder shrug. ¯\(°_0)/¯

"second base is the bizness." -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans

by Wonko on Jan 13, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

it'll be done

if he practices with the team, based on what I know, I think he spends off-season practicing on his own.

by john1 on Jan 14, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I think

Tommy Harris was disruptive, Liuget is developing nicely, Garay wasn’t as disruptive(let’s hope Castilo helps this D-line if he’s not released). The draft can go many ways, dependent on who gets drafted where and whether AJ feels like moving up in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I’ll be happy to see OG, CB, OLB in the first round and hopefully LaMichael James in the 2nd round. Based on Mock drafts I have seen there seems to be like 6 OLB that can be drafted in the first rd…would be nice to have a post about draft picks that can end up as chargers. I know it’s too early, but again it doesn’t have to be all that detailed just thoughts about what each moderator thinks the Chargers needs are and if you agree on what the needs are then who are your top 5 for that position and which order should the Chargers go :)

by john1 on Jan 14, 2012 1:34 PM PST reply actions  

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