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Talking San Diego Chargers With Football Outsiders

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In case you're new around here, we're big fans of Football Outsiders. This means the BFTB staff and most of our readers geek out when the annual Football Outsiders Almanac is released. If you're looking to pick up a copy yourself, you can do so right here.

Doug Farrar from FO appeared on High Boltage Radio a few weeks ago (listen here) to discuss his write-up on the Chargers with Steve and I. After the rest of the BFTB staff got their  and read through the San Diego Chargers section we sent a few questions over that Doug was nice enough to answer.

 

Bolts from the Blue: You've criticized the Chargers' offensive line. FBO has written numerous times that it's far more valuable for a team to have consistency there rather than to constantly change out parts. The Chargers will be returning exactly the same o-line personnel in 2011 that they had in 2010. Especially given the short off-season, would it really have been better to try and mix things up? Isn't it especially valuable right now to have the consistency?

Doug Farrar: Well, when it came to the 2010 Chargers' offensive line, my primary criticism was of A.J. Smith, and his insistence on playing dollars-and-cents with left tackle Marcus McNeill while Brandyn Dombrowski (through no real fault of his own - there's a reason a guy is a swing tackle) was helping to get Philip Rivers killed. People put the Seattle loss down to special teams, and Leon Washington was the obvious factor in that game, but Chris Clemons absolutely owned Dombrowski from the Seahawks LEO position, and I don't see Clemons doing that to McNeill.

So, yeah - you start with talent, and then you move over to continuity when you can. I think there are aspects of continuity that can make up for a relative lack of talent, but not generally at the left tackle position. With McNeill set up for his future and barring any sort of injury, I think the Chargers' line is set up much more for consistency and success this season. McNeill is very good, Dielman is still a quality guard (though not what he used to be), and they have "glue guys" like Nick Hardwick and Jeromey Clary. Given Philip Rivers' adeptness even behind an iffy line, and the fact that my concern about the team's running game goes past the line, I think their front five is in pretty good shape right now.

Star-divide


BFTB: Considering how vehemently anti-Norv the FO staff has been in the past, I was surprised when it said that "Norv's developed as a head coach to a degree."  How exactly has Norv developed as a football coach in your opinion?

DF: I think he's developed to a degree as a leader, at least as much as his situation allows, and his development of Rivers gives him a lot of credibility with the team. In a general sense I think Norv is the perfect type of coach for an arrogant, willful employer like A.J. Smith, and I don't mean that to sound as if Norv is just a yes-man. I would compare his situation to that of Joe Torre's with the Yankees to a certain degree - when you're stuck between a roster with enough talent to keep expectations high, and a head man who keeps stirring the soup when it doesn't need stirring; it takes an even hand to get things progressing. People used to say that anyone could win a World Series with the kind of payroll and talent the Yankees have, but Torre knew how to deflect a lot of crap from up above. I think Norv has learned to do that. He's still an iffy strategist, and there's no specific reason to believe that there won't be another show start, but there are few coaches who would deal as well with the mess A.J. Smith presented last year and I give Norv credit for that.

 

BFTB: With Bob Sanders in the same defensive secondary (even if only for half a season), do you think that Weddle can become one of the elite safeties in the NFL?

DF: Oh, I think he's already there, Sanders or not. In the Chargers chapter, I follow Bill Barnwell's 2010 lament that Brandon Meriweather kept making first-team Pro Bowl ahead of Weddle. With Meriweather's release on Saturday, it seems even more ridiculous. Weddle can do everything well, and I think most people who study game tape and can get their hands on any All-22 film realize just how good he is. While he's not an elite center fielder per se, he's a great fit for any defense because he can cover all secondary slots from intermediate to deep, and crash down on the run with great consistency. That's his real value - in the number of different things he can do, and do very well. With an overall shift in talent from the front seven to the back seven on San Diego's defense, I believe he's been the Chargers' best defensive player in each of the last two seasons.


BFTB: Speaking of Bob Sanders, this is the longest layoff of his career. He's coming to a training staff that has a good history with injury-prone players (Garay, Burnett, etc.) and the Chargers are taking him off the field on 3rd downs. Do the injury histories you track give any reason to believe that he'll be healthier in San Diego?

DF: It's not so much the injury history as it is the fact that he is a smaller guy playing a position like a bigger safety. No question that he is the proverbial football warrior, and he makes every run defense significantly better with his presence. It's just a matter of how much he can play and what he can do. I love the signing in the abstract. I would love to have Bob Sanders on any team I ran, even if he only played 10 or 20 snaps a game. Now, it's about handling a workload.


BFTB: Is the worry about a lack of pass rush entirely due to the loss of Burnett? Or is it because of the lack of hurries/hits to go along with last year's #2 in the NFL adjusted sack rate?

DF: It's a lot to do with the lack of hits and hurries - but it's really everything, as we detailed in the Chargers chapter. The Chargers were dead last in the NFL in both hits and hurries, and their sack total improved drastically last year without a reasonable spread of sack numbers across different defenders. Losing Burnett is a hit because he had six sacks. Antonio Garay had 5.5 sacks in his miracle year last season, but he's 32 years old and those were the first 5.5 sacks of his NFL career. Many of the Chargers' defenders had higher sack totals than hits and hurries, which generally isn't a repeatable phenomenon, and we tend to believe in the predictive value of high hit and hurry totals to los sack numbers when it comes to estimating higher sack totals in future years. The Chargers would have to pull a number of outlier stunts to evade a disappointing season when it comes to pass pressure.

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"The Chargers would have to pull a number of outlier stunts to evade a disappointing season when it comes to pass pressure."

Uhhmmm…really? Like a new defensive coordinator who is known to bring the blitz aggressively?

The Chargers didn’t have a lot of QB hits and hurries last year because Ron Rivera really didn’t apply nearly as much blitz pressure as Manusky is known to apply. I can understand when you are comparing year to year with the same defensive coordinators and saying that low numbers in the QB hits and hurries will lead to less sacks, but don’t think that holds true when a team is changing coordinators. I’m not saying that I expect the Chargers to lead the league in sacks, but with this offense’s ability to put up points, and the skill in the defensive secondary, plus the blitz-happy defensive coordinator, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility to match or increase the sack total from last season.

Other than that I see a lot of great feedback from FO on some tough questions.

by jkvandal on Sep 8, 2011 2:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Did the FO stats from last year

Show that Manusky is a more aggressive blitzer than Rivera?

Looking at last year’s annual:
Rivera:
Rush 3: 3.4%
Rush 4: 57.6%
Rush 5: 35.7%
Rush 6+: 3.4%
Zone Blitz: 4.8%

Manusky:
Rush 3: 5.2%
Rush 4: 63.5%
Rush 5: 25.2%
Rush 6+: 6.0%
Zone Blitz: 8.2%

"Beating the Red Sox feels SO GOOD.! SO GOOD! SO GOOD!" -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 8, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, I never really thought Manusky was much of a crazy blitz type guy.

I just hope he’s better than Rivera at analyzing weaknesses and using his personnel to attack them.

A pirate I was meant to be!
"You say you're nasty pirates,
scheming, thieving, bad bushwackers?
From what I've seen I tell you
You're not pirates, you're just slackers!"

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's still twice the amount (or close to it)

I would consider both 6+ and Zone Blitz as Blitz situations. From those numbers it seems like Munusky called the Blitz twice as much Rivera did. I’d like to see this for Manusky after a full season with the chargers.

BOOM!

by whatsapip on Sep 9, 2011 4:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought "blitz" meant "rush more than 4."

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2011 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

About Norv...

I still think he gets short shrift, considering what he was inheriting in Washington and Oakland. You can’t hold a career record of 58-82-1 against a guy when his roster is being built by the likes of Charley Casserly, Dan Snyder (err… Vinny Cerrato), and Al Davis – especially when he was inheriting the over-the-hill remains of Super Bowl contenders in both places. In San Diego, with a talented roster, the record is 41-23, plus a .500 postseason record. Norv also finishes with a better record than both Bobby Ross and Marty Schottenheimer with a 7-9 record (or better) this year.

"Egad!" Wile E. Coyote.

by Jeff (sliderockmpc) on Sep 8, 2011 2:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Casserly...

Believes he’s actually Bobby Bethard. Bathard would have been the best drafting GM of all time if he had never picked Leaf.

BOOM!

by whatsapip on Sep 9, 2011 4:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Beathard was screwing up drafts well before Ryan Leaf

Trading a future first round pick so he could take Bryan Still in the 1st round. That was in 1996. You know how many useful players the Chargers got out of that draft? Zero.

They didn’t have a 1st round pick that year. Why? Because he had traded it the previous season so he could draft Terrence Shaw in the 2nd round. Terrence Shaw was not exactly worth a 1st round pick. He possibly was the best player to come out of that 1995 draft though depending on how you rate Terrell Fletcher. Pretty pathetic performance.

Oh, Chargers didn’t have a first round pick in that 1995 draft either. Or in 1994, but at least their 2nd rounders were good that year (Vaughn Parker and Isaac Davis).

Amazing that from 1994-1997 the Chargers had zero 1st round picks. Then they used two on Ryan Leaf (1999’s 1st round pick was used in order to trade up one spot in the 1998 draft). And didn’t have one in 2000 either (I think that was traded in order to get Jermaine Fazande in the 1999 draft). From 1994-2000 the only player actually drafted by the Chargers as a first round pick was Leaf. Not the sign of a good drafting GM.

"Beating the Red Sox feels SO GOOD.! SO GOOD! SO GOOD!" -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 9, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I'd take Fletcher over Shaw.

Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Sep 9, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still not a good draft.

"Beating the Red Sox feels SO GOOD.! SO GOOD! SO GOOD!" -jbox

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 9, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought it was.

Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Sep 13, 2011 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really like FO

but they have been on the ‘Norv sucks’ bandwagon for a long time. And that’s ok but for the fact that they only repeat the same untested arguments that you see on competitors blogs or the ‘Bring Back Marty’ crowd. I know I have seen him make mistakes while making timeouts or challenges, but I cannot say that he is worse than average, or anything like that. And that kind of thing is difficult to quantify but I’ve never really seen it attempted at any level.

Maybe I am a Norv apologist but I think they should stick to things that can be backed up, even if only anecdotally. I don’t love Norv but he gets more hate than I think he deserves. Show me some evidence!

by chaplinesque on Sep 8, 2011 2:53 PM PDT reply actions  

They may think Norv sucks

But Norv is their darling compared to AJ Smith.

6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.

That was fast.

by SD FTW on Sep 8, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha yeah they do kinda give him some criticism

But at least they can present an actual reason, unlike the generic hate on Norval.
I also think AJ screwed up the situations with McNeil and VJack, and our drafting has been less stellar. So at least there are cited reasons for the criticism.

by chaplinesque on Sep 8, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

I’d like to know where the criticism was in the Patriots chapter for their bullheaded, dollars-and-cents handling of Logan Mankins, what with cutting his RFA tender and all. Oh wait, only AJ Smith would do that out of blowhard spite. It must have just been good business sense in the Pats case.

by Lenny Suckerpunch on Sep 8, 2011 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are forgetting the first rule about the NFL

The Patriots can do no wrong

6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.

That was fast.

by SD FTW on Sep 8, 2011 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

The AJ/Norv chorus is the clearest sign to me

that there is either an agenda or unbelievable laziness (one original source just repeated ad nauseum) in reporting today. Or a combination of the two – the original source has the agenda and the extreme laziness repeats and reiterates it until it’s true for the vast majority of NFL fans/consumers. Reading PFT posts bashing AJ Smith are great – the posters think they’re privy to some sort of inside information or secret or something because they’ve heard about what an pompous a-hole Smith is, and that their comment helps them prove to others that they are a smarter, better-informed NFL fan. To me, the FO guys are really no better when it comes to the AJ/Norv commentary. It is the same tired song but everyone believes it to be true so it becomes a little self-fulfilling prophecy.

by Lenny Suckerpunch on Sep 8, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's kind of a combination of laziness, truth, and homerism.

We’re “way over there” on the west coast.

We’ve got better weather and better uniforms than (fill in the blank), and they know it.

We’ve always been a spoiler team, good enough to remind (fill in the blank)’s fans of that painful loss, but not good enough to have any championships of our own.

We’ve been on the wrong side of FAR too many historic games.

AJ Smith isn’t God, and is kind of a jerk. Because he’s kind of a jerk, he’s held to a higher standard. Because he’s not God, he doesn’t always perform to that standard.

AJ’s first three draft seasons were his best to date (though this year looks promising), and the draft is the easiest thing to follow.

Norv doesn’t look like what a lot of people think a HC should look like. They should just get over it, but no such luck.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

well said

I almost gave myself an “easy there, angry bear” last night. Just very tired of it being universally accepted that you can just toss in a “Norv sucks” one-liner or “AJ’s an arrogant a-hole” without any need to back it up with any kind of fact. It’s not so much true as it is accepted fact.

by Lenny Suckerpunch on Sep 9, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nicely done.

Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Sep 9, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even when they get caught cheating.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2011 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let the critics be critics

Bill Cower coach the Steelers from 1992-2007.That’s 15 years with one team. And he only won one Super Bowl. He coach in 6 AFC championships, only won 2. He is considered great because he won that one Super Bowl.

Norv has only been the Coach of the Chargers since 2007 and has coached in one AFC
Championship. Once he gets a Super Bowl victory as a head coach, then they’ll all shut up about him and AJ.Until then, lets hope the huge chip on their respective shoulder can help them drive this team to a ring.

BOOM!

by whatsapip on Sep 9, 2011 4:49 AM PDT reply actions  

This

The Pats are 0-2 in the Playoffs the last three years. Including two losses to more physical teams, the Ravens and the Jets, when they were a high seed. Yet no one is calling for Belicheck’s head.

by SuperSalami on Sep 9, 2011 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

What have they won since they stopped cheating?

Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Sep 9, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The hearts of ESPN analysts

6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.

That was fast.

by SD FTW on Sep 9, 2011 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice.

Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Sep 13, 2011 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

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