Early 2011 Approval Rating: Norv Turner
by Wonko on Sep 19, 2011 3:15 PM PDT
in San Diego Chargers Approval Ratings
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PrintAs a way of trying to gauge the in-season fan reactions I'm re-posting this poll. Nothing has really changed since the end of last season except for a couple of games that either reinforced your opinions or perhaps tipped you off a fence. So, let me first reiterate some of Norv Turner's Charger history and stats then let you vote.
Norv Turner was hired as head coach of the Chargers in 2007. He inherited a team that went 14-2 the year before, but was knocked out of the playoffs after only 1 game. As the Chargers head coach he's had the following records:
| Year | Record | Result |
| 2007 | 11-5 | Went 2-1 in playoffs. Lost to Patriots in AFC Championship Game. |
| 2008 | 8-8 | Went 1-1 in playoffs. Lost to Steelers in Divisional round. |
| 2009 | 13-3 | Went 0-1 in playoffs. Lost to Jets in Divisional round. |
| 2010 | 9-7 | Missed Playoffs |
| 2011 | 1-1 | In Progress |
The following can also be noted during his tenure:
- Came in with a reputation for a developing quarterbacks and has overseen the growth of Philip Rivers.
- The running game has gone from one of the best in the league to a league average (and sometime bottom of the league) unit.
- Defenses have been inconsistent.
- Coached the team to the second winningest season in Chargers history.
- Oversaw a team that had one of the worst special teams units in the history of football.
- Has as many wins in the playoffs as the previous 7 Chargers Head Coaches combined.
- Offense has been in the top 5 in points scored every year.
- Defense has been in the top 15 in points allowed every year.
- Offense has been top 15 in DVOA every year with top 4 finishes each of the last 3.
- Has never coached the Chargers to a losing season.
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I voted disapprove
Here’s why …. I don’t think that Norv is HC material. He’s a great OC but the distraction of the rest of the game overwhelms him. I had hoped that Chud would take over more of the game management duties last year with good results. Well, we did have the #1 offense. The rest didn’t work out as well.
You hear stories to the contrary but I suspect that Norv is just not terribly inspiring.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
So did I
Look at the blue box. That is a distrubing trendline.
North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.
by SDNativeinTX on Sep 20, 2011 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
In his defense,
Norv is taller than Bill Belichick.
This poll is like watching the movie "Titanic"
I already know how it ends.
ps: I have successfully avoided that movie thus far.
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
Really? I thought it ended with Norv getting fired.
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Sep 19, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Or is that the same thing?
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Sep 19, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm still trying to reconcile
If he’ll score the about same or lower than last time.
"Beating the Red Sox feels SO GOOD.! SO GOOD! SO GOOD!" -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
*about the same
"Beating the Red Sox feels SO GOOD.! SO GOOD! SO GOOD!" -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
not if the other team consistantly scores even more
"I promise you, we’re going to build a dictating, dominating, attacking defense. I’ve said it a million times. It’s not a slight on our offense, but we’re not going to win any world championship until we have that." - A.J. Smith
I disapprove *of*...
..SoulSD because he sucks..did I mention the douchebaggery?
"I'm focused on what's going on down here." Dean Spanos pointing to his crotch
The goal is to rack up more points that your opponent, week-in, week-out
You can go about that in three ways: keeping your opponents from scoring, scoring more than your opponent, or both.
Remember when Bill Cowher was terrible and he'd never win a Super Bowl?
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Sep 19, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hard to vote "approve"
Other than the fact that the team makes the playoffs a predominant number of years. Every problem that the team faces, every issue that holds them back, is a direct reflection of the Head Coach. This team lacks “focus,” “championship make up,” “personality,” “urgency.” All of these are facets dictated by the man with the whistle.
I know: “Players play, and if they don’t perform, it’s on them.” But here’s my question: what holds this team back from being the New England Patriots? What is the REAL issue? Is it just simply a matter of quality of players? Is it luck of the Irish? Or is it Hoodie vs. (insert insulting Norv moniker here)?
I would honestly like to hear from those that voted “approve.” And you can’t vote simply based on “there’s no one else out there who would do any better.” I’m honestly curious — what is there to approve of?
by Andy (allfield) on Sep 19, 2011 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Personally I didn't vote to approve
but some redeeming qualities of Norv are that he has developed Rivers into the league’s leading passer and one of the most powerful offenses in the league…both of which strengthen the argument for something that we already know: Norv is a great Offensive Coordinator.
One thing that up until last year was his biggest redeeming quality is the fact that he always had the team playing strong at the end of the season…it just never translated into consistent playoff success.
Did Norv really develope Rivers?
Given how well Cam Newton is surprisingly reading coverages & throwing to the TE’s in Carolina I’m starting to question wether it was Norv or Chudzinski that developed Brees, Rivers & Gates during his first stint with us as TE coach? It’s a well known fact that he worked closely with all three in 2005-2006. Gates has had his best years as pro under Chud and Rivers last two seasons are his best as a pro under his guidance as TE/assistant head coach.
Every where Chud has gone the offensive pass game and its QB has flourished; OC at Maimi when they won the NCAA national title, as OC was responsible for the development of Derek Anderson & Kellen Winslow Jr. who by the way had their best years as pros with the Browns of all teams.
Now Cam who we all know was not expected to have this kinda early success especially given he had no OTA’s..is breaking records?
Norv’s stock is dropping faster and faster as a player developer given the recurring mistake mismanagement under his BOLT watch… it’s hard to approve when he’s given a pass for the very thing ‘failure to win a big game’ Marty was canned for supposedly. IJS
What holds them back from beating New England
the same thing that holds every other team in the NFL back. Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL and he gets it done in when he needs to almost every time. Rivers had his chances and failed this sunday.
I voted approve based on the fact that with him as head coach the Chargers have won a ton of games, went to the play offs three out of four years and finished 9-7 just missing the play offs the only year they didn’t go. Do I think he is the best coach in the NFL? No, but he is doing a quality job and winning a bunch of games.
Championships, a solid/consistant defense and bad luck/unfortunate calls
The Patriots have Championships under their belt. Belichick, a defensive minded head coach, had Weis consistently throughout the championship run. A lot of thing worked in their favor in thier first Super Bowl run, including the Raider blowing their chance at home field advantage, having the afternoon game changed to an evening game, a blizzard coming in, the “tuck-rule” actually being enforced and having a very clutch kicker.
Belichick had 6 years as a HC before he got a SB.
Dungy had 12.
Cowher had 15.
At least give him a few years with a consistent DC
BOOM!
All the stats and little tid-bits pointed to what I think needs to be done
He is an awesome offensive coordinator and qb coach and there aren’t many other coaches I would rather have but he just isn’t cut out to be a head coach. Spanos needs to somehow convince him to take the offensive coordinator position and hire someone to headcoach that really knows how to run a team, gameplan, and make adjustments on the fly. Yes I know this is asking a little much but it is what needs to be done.
On an unrelated note I sure am glad to not be a chiefs fan, they had playoff hopes two weeks ago now they want Andrew Luck a new coach.
"I promise you, we’re going to build a dictating, dominating, attacking defense. I’ve said it a million times. It’s not a slight on our offense, but we’re not going to win any world championship until we have that." - A.J. Smith
*and a new coach
"I promise you, we’re going to build a dictating, dominating, attacking defense. I’ve said it a million times. It’s not a slight on our offense, but we’re not going to win any world championship until we have that." - A.J. Smith
yeah not sure that a HC has ever been demoted to a Coordinator position directly on the same team
not very likely. I wish, though.
Norv has done good with Rivers. Other than that, nothing spectacular.
Marty built the foundation through great defense and a reliable offense. Norv has made the offense more dynamic at the cost of the defense putting up with 3 different coordinators. He’s also shown to be a bit of a pansy when dealing with AJ Smith. I like Norv, I really do. and I really think that this is the year he finally develops into a top 10 head coach.
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that."
by Superduperboltman on Sep 19, 2011 4:58 PM PDT reply actions
I'm not sure that anyone that isn't employed by the Chargers organization is qualified
to say how Norv does or doesn’t deal with AJ Smith properly and personally I have a hard time commenting on the internal workings or relationships between coaches and members of the front office.
That being said, as fans (and especially as bloggers), we have license to call it as we see it, while acknowledging that what we see is pretty darn limited. So with that disclaimer, I think that Norv and AJ work well as a team since I have never seen them not on the same page. Whatever decisions are made by whomever behind closed doors, they seem to be on the same page with those decisions at least when talking to the public.
When AJ says 'jump'
Norv says ‘how high?’
there’s a lot of opinion in that, but look at the few clips of them together, Norv never looks or acts like he’s man to man with him, is all. I’m also an AJ disliker. hater is too strong a word. his personality and demeanor are more oakland than so cal. he reminds me of one of my first bosses, who was millimeters away from getting a few teeth knocked out when I tried a roundhouse kick on him during an argument…
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that."
by Superduperboltman on Sep 19, 2011 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
This:
When AJ says ‘jump’
Norv says ‘how high?’
in conjunction with this:
he reminds me of one of my first bosses, who was millimeters away from getting a few teeth knocked out when I tried a roundhouse kick on him during an argument…
suggest to me you might not have a strong grasp of the chain of command concept. Unless there is an agreement within the front office that the two are on equal standing—which I don’t believe there is—Norv answers to AJ. Period.
I don't buy this "Norv answers to AJ" line
Do you really think AJ Smith tells him what plays to call? You have to be kidding me.
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Sep 19, 2011 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
No I don't think he tells him what plays to call.
But AJ is still is boss, and Norv answers to him.
My boss defers to my expertise at my job when doing specific tasks; that doesn’t mean I don’t still ultimately answer to him.
Still not buying it
A lot of the draft picks in recent years have been obvious Norv guys. What would AJ possibly order Norv to do? “Hey Norv, go get me a sandwich”?
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Sep 19, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Criticising is easy, replacing is hard.
The way I see it, if Norv were to be replaced, the expectation on his successor would be to deliver a Super Bowl in their first season.
Realistically, is there even a head coach available that could have that kind of immediate impact on the team?
There’s a lot I like about Norv but I also get frustrated when I see less talented teams get closer to a Super Bowl. I just don’t see who you’d get to replace him.
Whine all you want ...
IMHO there are only a handful of coaches out there that would do significantly better with this team. Pick another coaching staff and give them our team then send them into NE to face Belichek. Who else beats him? Tomlin/LeBeau? McCarthy? Reid? Not Indy. Norv is somewhere in less-than-elite pack. Are there any elite coaches that could co-exist with AJ? Anyway, it’s too early in the season with a new D coordinator to start the “throw Norv under the bus” chant. That said, if Norv doesn’t make a lot out of this year’s team AJ and Dean are gonna get impatient.
Are you serious?
Do you really think if Tomlin/LeBeau were the coaches of THIS Charger team that there would be a QUARTER of the mental mistakes? Do you think the defense would have allowed that extra 20 yards at the end of the half? Do you think Tolbert would have turned tail and pulled a Jim Marshall if he knew he was gonna get a tongue-lashing from Mike Tomlin? I have to respectuflly disagree with you. I think there are a LOT of existing coaching staffs (at least 6) that could do more with this team.
by Andy (allfield) on Sep 19, 2011 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
So 6 coaching staffs could do more
I guess that means 25 couldn’t do more.
When is the last time New England lost a regular season home game?
Mendenhall still had a big superbowl fumble and has had fumbling issues, I guess he is not too worried about the dreaded “Tomlin tongue lashing” (thats what she said).
It is just too easy to blame the head coach.
Wow, this is an interesting twist of my words
I said at LEAST 6. 6 were off the top of my head. And since Robo suggested that they would be assigned to beat New England, that means there’s only 24 other teams.
Mendenhall had a big fumble, but who said anything about fumbling? Fumbles happen. What doesn’t happen is a guy turning and running the wrong direction in an effort to gain extra yards. On a Tomlin-esque team, the players know their rolls and don’t try needlessly improvise.
Is it too easy to blame the head coach? Well, yeah. That’s the guy who deserves the blame.
by Andy (allfield) on Sep 19, 2011 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
My point in mentioning Mendenhall's fumble issue
is that if all it took was the head coach yelling to fix problems then I guess his “fear” of Tomlin would have prevented the fumble. Big Ben doesn’t improvise? Have you ever watched the Steelers play.
Tolbert was trying to make a play and made a poor choice I don’t think that any amount of yelling by Norv in the past would have changed what happened. A lot of what happens in live action is a players instinct. If the Chargers want to beat the Brady led Pats then Rivers needs to step up and out duel Brady, Sunday he didn’t.
I am not a member of the Norv Turner fan club, far from it, but the Chargers have won a bunch of games and went to the play offs almost every year he has been the coach. That is better than most coaches and most teams can say. Since you say he deserves the blame for a loss then I guess he deserves the credit for the Chargers success the past four years as well.
There is truth in what you say
But I still feel you underestimate the affects of a Head Coach — especially a good one. Yes, maybe not “yelling” or “fear” as motivators, but “personality” as a guiding force. If you are truly “led” (and I admit that most if not all of these words are very esoteric), you don’t take unnecessary risks, you don’t make mental mistakes, you don’t kick challenge flags, you don’t stand up and toss the ball aside even though you haven’t been touched. There’s a distinct mental approach that has to fall on the shoulders of the Head Coach.
Does Norv deserve credit for the team’s success? Of course. It would be ludicrous to pile blame on him for failure without giving him credit for success. That’s what makes this such a great debate! I think those of us who “disapprove” of Norv feel those wins — and many others just like them — would come even if it were a different coach.
by Andy (allfield) on Sep 19, 2011 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Most of us on this site watch every play of the Chargers games
at least once and we focus on only that game when it is on. I would suggest that if you watched the other teams (including Pittsburgh) play with that same focus you would notice many of the same mental mistakes. Those mistakes just don’t irritate you as much, or stick in your mind as much when they are made by a team that you don’t live and die with.
For what its worth, probably not much, here are a few facts:
Tomlins record with Pitt Reg Season 43-21 Play offs 5-2
Turners record with SD Reg Season 42-22 Play offs 3-3
Also, as it may or may not relate to a team’s discipline, each of the last three seasons the Chargers have averaged less penalties per game than the Steelers. Granted there is a lot of room for debate in the penalty stat, but it is a fact as opposed to a feeling.
by JeromeB on Sep 20, 2011 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Let me try this analogy
You have an apple. It’s big and red and juicy. But every once in a while, you take a bite, and it’s a little… mushy. Then I come up to you and say, “There’s this orange tree. The fertilizer used to grow that tree is better than the fertilizer you use to grow your apple tree!” Wouldn’t you wish you could try it? Okay, I didn’t say it was a GOOD analogy.
by Andy (allfield) on Sep 20, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Never said there was not a better coach for the Chargers
you asked for someone who voted “approve” to explain there vote, I think I did a pretty good job of it.
Your analogy has made me hungry, I think I will go make a fertilizer sandwich.
I'd argue that's largely in spite of him.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Sep 21, 2011 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
My point in comparing the records
was that the difference between Tomlin’s (the greatest coach in the league) record and Turner’s (he sucks get rid of him) record barely exists. I am not saying Turner is better or worse than Tomlin, I am just saying that their records with their current teams are very similar.
It's funny how easy this answer would be...
if we only lived in November and December. Overall I think you have to go with disapprove if the goal is to win the Super Bowl. Sure there are limited options out there but you have to try and change if it is clear that we have the same basic problems year after year. If we replace him, we may get better, we may get worse, but it’s probably a gamble worth taking in my eyes.
Norv needs to give up playcalling and focus on being the Head Coach
and he had to perfect guy to take over for him but unfortunately he’s now in Carolina.
by Natrone Bomb on Sep 19, 2011 7:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed...you can't do both
and it shows with the Chargers.
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
About two thirds of the coaches in the league call the plays
for either offense or defense.
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scheming, thieving, bad bushwackers?
From what I've seen I tell you
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by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 20, 2011 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
The timing of this poll is interesting....
After only 2 games this season and after one that was mostly an expected loss. I would have thought the bye week might have been the right time. Was there a similar poll last season after 2 games?
It's NEVER a shrimp on the barbie. It's not even a shrimp.
by The Land Of Real Beer on Sep 19, 2011 8:08 PM PDT reply actions
I think it appropriate considering
Look at how many people freaked out about this Patriot’s loss. An article like this is bound to get a lot of comments at this time.
BOOM!
True, and that's kind of my point.
‘Freaked out’ is about right. Lots of gut reaction to a frustrating loss. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. But neither is perspective.
I’m all for discussing the coaching staff’s actual and perceived weaknesses, it’s what fans do. I’m just asking if the guy is going to get polled after every loss. If so, I’ll be praying for no more polls, because these things have a way of going in circles.
It's NEVER a shrimp on the barbie. It's not even a shrimp.
by The Land Of Real Beer on Sep 19, 2011 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I approve
Norv has been under consistent pressure since he got hired at San Diego.
He remains calm and analytical when his team needs.
In public he chooses to focus on the positive and refrains from throwing his team under the bus. I’m sure in private he’s yelling and critiquing to get his team better.
In almost every single close game I have seen a different player step up and be a star.
I believe Norv Turner put his team in the best position to win the game every week.
I also believe that this truly Norv’s team now. Not Marty’s. Not LT’s. Not half Rivera’s. It’s totally Norv’s show. If any season, not just one singular game, is going to be the measuring stick for Norv , it’s this year.
BOOM!
More HB passes!!
My word, how the halfback pass has been ignored!
Nobody is doing it, Defenses are not ready for it and LT did it to perfection. (Oddly enough, it was abandoned)
Seriously, find out who can chuck a pass better between the three HBs and put it in the gameplan EVERY week.
For results and some glorious nostalgia watch this:
The "Soft" label
People seem to label this team as finesse and say that Norv is too cerebral and not fiery enough. But really, would a finesse team with a cerebral coach make stupid mistakes like they do? I see Norv yelling all the time. He screamed “What’d you go back for?” at Tolbert after the fumble the other day.
Norv is a smart guy. I think we all know that. Philip is a smart QB, but because of the way the offense is designed, he’s prone to taking chances that can backfire. The defensive scheme was certainly dumb against the Patriots, though.
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
and this comment was also dumb as shit
"Yesterday, we were four turnovers away from having a chance" is the dumbest thing Norv Turner has ever said." via norval and tweeted by @bftb chargers
um...
yes something I say might sound dumb to you, but how would u even know what I meant if you don’t know me? his msg is expressing why the team didn’t win and it’s a fact, so if Norv talking doesn’t satisfy you, then maybe you shouldn’t listen. It’s dumb to me too, but only because that’s the obvious and that’s why I wouldn’t listen to Norv talking about why Chargers lost. I think it was two plays mostly, River INT b4 half and Tolbert’s fumble, other than that everything else wasn’t really all that bad. NO ONE APPRECIATES WHAT THEY’RE MISSING UNTIL IT’S GONE. writing in caps felt good lol…that last game falls on Rivers shoulder mostly
I voted approve.
Regardless of any short sightedness from a fans perspective, Norv has done a good job. the players like him, they respond to him and he gets the chargers to win when it counts.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
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