San Diego Chargers Draft Successes - #1 DRUM ROLL PLEASE
by John Gennaro on May 5, 2011 12:36 PM PDT
in NFL Draft
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PrintAs much as it may seem like I'm mean for thinking it, I'm glad this list has had a little bit on controversy. Many didn't agree with me leaving off Philip Rivers (not drafted by the Chargers), Jamal Williams (supplemental draft pick) or Antonio Gates (not drafted at all). Others didn't like that LaDainian Tomlinson, arguably the greatest Chargers player of all time, came in as the #3 greatest draft success of recent memory for the Bolts.
These are all valid points and things that I struggled with in making this list. However, I stick by my top 10 and am happy to finally announce to you all who is number one. But first, because this is being posted about a week later than it was supposed to be, a free shout out to Bud Light! "Bud Light, it's the only beer that my mom will drink!" (Editor's note: Any jokes about my mom in the comments will get you immediately and permanently banned)
The rules of my selections stated that players drafted in 1994 or sooner were the only ones eligible. Lucky for Rodney Harrison that I picked that year, otherwise he would not have made the cut and would not have been the #1 draft success of the San Diego Chargers.
The biggest reason Harrison is up this high is not that he was a great player, which he was, but is that the Bolts found such a great player in the middle of the 5th round. This was no A.J. Smith "best draft ever" either. The team lucked into Harrison. Here's how that draft went for San Diego:
Isaac Davis, G Arkansas
Vaughn Parker, G UCLA
Andre Coleman, WR Kansas State
Willie Clark, CB Notre Dame
Aaron Lang, TE New Mexico State
Rodney Harrison, SS Western Illinois
Darren Krein, DE Miami (FL)
Tony Vinson, RB Towson
Zane Beehn, Kentucky
Outside of Parker and Harrison, do you recognize any of those names? Me neither. I can't imagine the team was picking Rodney and saying "This guy's a future Hall of Famer who will help turn this team around when paired with Junior Seau." The only other player picked in Harrison's round with any kind of success was the Packers' selection of Dorsey Levens.
Much of Harrison's Hall of Fame resume will center on him winning two Super Bowls (and almost a third) with the New England Patriots after being released by the Chargers. In San Diego's defense, Harrison's last two seasons were disappointing (especially in terms of coverage) and they needed to get younger/cheaper quickly. Before being released, though, Harrison built a resume that easily makes him the best Safety in Chargers history.
Here's his stats from his time in blue and gold: 123 games (97 starts), 759 tackles, 21.5 sacks, 26 INTs, 21 defended passes, 8 forced fumbles, 2 touchdowns. That makes up for about two-thirds of his career totals, which makes sense considering he played 9 of his 15 seasons with the Chargers. He made the Pro Bowl twice, both times with San Diego.
When a team uses a top 5 pick on a player, their range of expectation in somewhere between "Superstar for a long time" to "average starter". When they're picking guys like Shaun Phillips in the 4th round or Rodney Harrison in the 5th, the range of realistic expectation is somewhere between "average starter" and "washout". When a team can take one of these guys and turn them into a Pro Bowler, or 7+ seasons of them being a top 3 player at their position, that's about as good a value as you're going to get from a draft pick. That's why the choice could not have been anyone but Rodney Harrison.
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I remember
being so pissed off when they let Harrison go. He didn’t shrink heads, he used to shrink receivers arms.
The play of chance and probability within which the creative spirit is free to roam. -von Clausewitz 'On Football'
by Brian (DaBolts) on May 5, 2011 12:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I liked Harrison too.
But saw his production decline. Then HGH and Bill Belichick happened. What the team saw in Marlon McCree and Bhawoh Jue I’ll never know.
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that."
Next article: Scouting Greg Manusky, coming soon.
by Superduperboltman on May 5, 2011 1:17 PM PDT reply actions
McCree was solid in Carolina
just over the hill by time he got here. I think they also liked that he could play either Safety spot. They always fall in love with those guys.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
McCree was solid.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
What about Dr. Dre?
Outside of Parker and Harrison, do you recognize any of those names? Me neither.
I am sure quite a few people remember Andre Coleman, just for fact that he was one of the few highlights of the Chargers lone Super Bowl appearance.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Looks like he wasn’t a terrible kick returner.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
Naw Coleman was a decent WR too
but 4 out of 9 that was a good draft year for Beathard.
by Trendsearcher on May 5, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry this idea that Rodney Harrison is #1 is crazy!
The sole intent was to get Phillip Rivers in the Draft and not Eli Manning. Would you want to trade Phillip Rivers for Rodney Harrison even with aditional picks during Rodney’s prime NFL career. No! This is a lame excuse for rules mongering vs. actual intent. Even though we didn’t draft Phillip Rivers in reality we would have if we just had the 4th pick in the draft only. The Chargers were greedy to get additional picks. The risk was that the giants could have kept Phillip Rivers and told the chargers to go screw themselves (LOL!). But, I think the management new that there was a 90% chance of that not happening. This is just some kind of exuberant trickery on the list making to make one look smart. As far as I’m concerned Phillip was drafted by the Chargers but in a round about way!
So basically what your saying is
John should have listed somebody the Chargers DID NOT DRAFT as the Chargers # draft success? Brilliant!
That's what you get for being mean.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
I think you are missing the point, as fine as it is...
This series is about VALUE…even IF we actually did draft PR17, he was a 1st round pick… usually, you expect them to perform like a 1st rounder and he has, no doubt.
In this case, we’re talkin about a FIFTH rounder playing like a FIRST rounder, and for a long time. This is where the value comes from, and it’s the whole crux of this series… Cooper nor Gates are not here because they were undrafted, even though they have played like freaks…easily 1st round talents.
"Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow."- Zappa
by QuesaDiaz on May 5, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
You're a little high on Coop
but otherwise, well said. A rec for you, good sir.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
You're right
I totally should’ve adjusted the listed based off of what you think and what the team said after the fact.
How the heck do you know that the Chargers didn’t actually want Eli Manning?
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
Really?
How the heck do you know that the Chargers didn’t actually want Eli Manning?
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
by Richard Wade on May 5, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah...
wanting Eli is like wanting Hemorrhoids during a mountainside bike ride to a buffalo wings and mexican food festival.
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that."
Next article: Scouting Greg Manusky, coming soon.
by Superduperboltman on May 6, 2011 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was clear once Archie spoke out
If daddy is not happy, little Eli has to go along with that. I think it’s safe to guess that Archie speaking out pretty might made the Chargers opinion for them. Why would you want a guy that doesn’t want you?
by Trendsearcher on May 6, 2011 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Colts drafted John Elway
Sometimes a team thinks it’s worth the risk. I’m not saying it happened that way, I’m just saying I can’t make Rivers number one and say “Well, the Chargers probably wanted Philip all along!”
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
Uhhh...
Why Don’t you ask them (a Charger insider) instead of conjecturing! My belief is that they (Chargers0 wanted philip 10-1 over Eli but wanted some additional compensation for being in the #1 draft slot. The whole shootdown happened because the Chargers wanted an additional 1st round pick that the giants initially were not willing to give up (so they gambled). On the other hand the giants probably wanted Eli 10-1 over Rivers (why I don’t know).
Chargers were also asking for Osi Umenyiora
Who the Giants weren’t willing to give up.
The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
You're right, rules were made to be broken.
If we forgo the rule that the top 10 list of Chargers draft successes be actually be drafted by the Chargers, and ignore the clearly arbitrary 1994 line in the sand; then clearly, Stan Humphries is a greater draft success than Philip Rivers. Consider how many super bowls Philip Rivers has played in. Final score : Stan Humphries-1, PR17-0. Stan Humphries was totally drafted by someone… this makes him a draft success! Lawyered.
(Pop quiz! how did the chargers acquire stan humphries? A – Traded from the Redskins owing to an injury to Chargers starting QB John Friesz. Yes I had to google that)
by Orz on May 5, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn't the winner still be Rodney Harrison?
He’s played in 2 Super Bowls. :-)
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
To me it comes down to Rodney or LT at #1
Yes you have to give props to the jewelry. If Rodney had done more on those Patriots teams, I think he gets the nod. He missed games. He made some great plays too. And I’m not sure a Safety can really make as big an impact on the team as an RB. Rodney is not there, I think the Pats still win those Super bowls.
LT had the Chargers on his back, and the other teams still couldn’t stop him. Oh and LT set a few all time NFL records in the process. Tough call.
by Trendsearcher on May 6, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh and those were Patriot's rings, not Chargers rings!
If Rodney had been on Chargers teams that had won two super bowls… Hey that is a much bigger deal to me.
by Trendsearcher on May 6, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, me too
but you said…
Stan Humphries is a greater draft success than Philip Rivers. Consider how many super bowls Philip Rivers has played in. Final score : Stan Humphries-1, PR17-0.
I was just playing devil’s advocate.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
by John Gennaro on May 6, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There is a difference in my view point.
Here’s why. We didn’t intend to draft Stan Humphries in the year he was drafted. Phillip Rivers was the targeted player and we just wanted more picks in trade. Plain and simple. The intent was clearly demonstrated that is why there should be an exception here. If we had traded for Phillip the following year there would be no disagreement.
You have no proof that it was intent
Perhaps they drafted Eli, saying to themselves “We’ll make this work.”
A few minutes later Ernie Accorsi calls up and says to A.J. “Look, I love this Manning kid. How about I give you the Rivers kid….who is really good, in case you aren’t aware…and I’ll throw in a 3rd this year and our 1st next year?”
A.J. thought about it for a minute, countering with “How about Umenyora instead of the 1st rounder next year?” (which was quickly rejected by Accorsi) before finally saying “You’ve offered me so much….I couldn’t possibly refuse!”
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
by John Gennaro on May 6, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
When you get done clicking your Red Shoes together...
maybe we can debate this sanely. If we were stuck with Eli Manning it would have been an absolute draft disaster. Not only would the Chargers not received a QB they desired but they would have been stuck with someone who would have sat out the entire year to be re-drafted the following year. I’ll stick with my perception and you can continue believing anything you want.
by gzubeck on May 6, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Guys Guys, you're both missing the point...
…that Stan Humphries to Tony Martin was awesome. And that Mark Seay dropped a lot of catchable balls.
You sound like a lawyer.
Denorfia sucks.
Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. -- Vince Lombardi
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on May 5, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Respectfully disagree
I respect the author’s opinion and it was certainly an entertaining series, but I cannot see how LT is not #1, by a huge margin. Harrison was definitely outstanding, and considering the value of his draft slot, nothing less than an enormous steal. However, he is not a hall of famer, not even really that close to it. I don’t care if he was Mr. Irrelevant and LT went #1 overall, LT is a hall of fame player and the value he provided as such far outweighs draft position and any relative value that came with it. Drafting a hall of fame player opposed to a very good one regardless of draft slot is virtually incomparable in value in my opinion.
by Rob Oz on May 5, 2011 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
after thinking about this for a while
I have to agree. The draft is enough of a crapshoot that you can never count on a top 5 draft pick making the pro-bowl once, much less being a face of the franchise, mvp, perennial pro-bowler, all-pro, and future HoF. LT was all those and flourished for years despite being the only offensive threat the Bolts had.
Thinking in terms of Return on Investment is a good way to evaluate it. Sure LT was a more costly investment to buy into, but he provided some unusually high returns even when compared to other quality picks around his spot. And honestly, Harrison is just a bit better than Weddle. If he hadn’t gone to the right team at the right time, he might have been out of the league and forgotten after his time with the chargers.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 6, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
return on investment
If you have a choice between paying $5 for Harrison 9 year SD career or $2,000 for LT’s 9 year SD career….LT is the better value?
Agree to disagree.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
I think I would take LT…
I’m going to say that LT was 6x the player Rodney was for the bolts (LT had 6 all-pro years with the Bolts to Rodney’s 1 – he had 2 more with NE). Rodney provided a much better return rate and let’s say the $5 you invested in him returned $2000 (Roughly what you would expect for a top 5 pick). That means that LT returned $12,000. While Rodney’s rate of return was astronomical, LT still made us more money overall… There are probably more holes in that metaphore than I’d like, but I still think I’d take LT.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 6, 2011 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
While Rodney’s rate of return was astronomical, LT still made us more money overall…
Ahh, but I’ve said all along that this list and it’s rankings were based on value (or ROI) more than talent. An astronomical return rate = #1 on this list. Otherwise it just would’ve been a list of successful first-round picks and Phillips. That’s boring.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
by John Gennaro on May 6, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Rodney was on some great Charger D's
And he made some amazing plays between 1994 and 2002.
But the Chargers only won the division ONCE during his tenue, (in his rookie year). As good as he was, there’s an argument to be made that he didn’t make the Chargers a winning team, fun as heck to watch though!
What are you considering “return”? Because to me it is championships, wins, team stats and last personal stats.
by Trendsearcher on May 6, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
LT was good in '01, great in '02 and '03.
And yet… it wasn’t until the OL got good that the team got good.
Truth be told, RBs and safeties represent the team’s ceiling, not its floor. A great safety will help keep the score down, will make up for any little mistakes that an otherwise good defense occasionally allows. A great RB will capitalize on good situations over and over again. But when the OL isn’t running, defenses will bottle up the passing game: a great runner will still look good, but he won’t make the difference. And a sucky offense makes the defense’s job harder, leading to deficits, leading in turn to run-to-win situations where a great safety isn’t helpful.
An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on May 6, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
There's a question who would you rather have Harrison or Weddle?
I loved watching Rodney knock the stuffing out of guys!
But I like watching Eric use his instincts to be in the right place at the right time. Just a really smart player.
by Trendsearcher on May 6, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Harrison in his prime. But Weddle's one of the best in the biz, so I'm happy.
An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on May 6, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Madden 2012 Online Franchise
Anyone here play Madden on the PS3? Im just trying to find someone from each SBnation site to represent their team for my Madden 2012 online franchise I will be starting when it is released. I am a regular at arrowheadpride so I will be taking the Chiefs ;)
First come first serve so email me fast, my email is rarnone4@aol.com.
Thanks fellas.
by Craignotincalgary on May 5, 2011 4:46 PM PDT reply actions
^ This
You can only play Madden 12 with other people if you’re online. I’ll believe PSN is working when I see it.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
You seriously don't think
it will be up by August 30th? Knuckle heads.
by Craignotincalgary on May 6, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
lol I certainly hope so
But I don’t have a whole lot of faith in Sony. Especially since they haven’t been very forthcoming with info so far.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
Well I hope so too
Considering I sold my 360 and got a PS3 a month ago.lol If it is up, do you want to man the Chargers? We have another Monday Night Game ;)
Email me – rarnone4@aol.com
by Craignotincalgary on May 6, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually don't have Madden 2012
The last football game I owned for the console was Tecmo Bowl
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
Well Madden 2012
Does not come out til August 30th. Im just trying to get a head start on finding good owners. If you come around, you have my info ;)
by Craignotincalgary on May 6, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
TWYMS
An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Slick
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
Think Harrison wasn't a steal?
We’re still looking for a safety that compares favorably.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
Funny.
What about poor drafting for safeties in general. With two higher DB picks (This year 2011) were almost assured of at least one of them becoming a starter. No??? If not who does that reflect poorly on?
I'm marking down this question
And answering it in 3 years.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
2011 Padres Record-When-I'm-There: 3-5
by John Gennaro on May 6, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry I have to respond to my own post.
Actually there’s three potential Draftee’s…
1) Marcus Gilchrist
2) Shareece Wright
and…Tada…
3) Andrew Gachkar…who could play safety because he runs a 4.59 40 at 230 lbs. a Tweener player who could play linebacker or safety depending on weight carried.
By the way I think Gachkar could be a type of Marquis Colston type player who was overlooked by the draft.
I'd just like to add
That safeties are not just smaller linebackers. It’s a completely different skill set. Unless you want a linebacker playing safety you don’t move a guy like Gachkar there.
"Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?"
Damn that Marty Schottenheimer thinking Polamalu was too small.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
Our SS needs to be able to cover
Hitting people isn’t the only skill a safety has to have. They need to cover over the top, provide run support, blitz, cover underneath, and be the last line of defense with sure tackling. Not all at the same time, but they need to have some combination of those skills. I don’t see it in Gachkar, honestly.
"Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?"
After reading this
I kind of feel like I was watching Family Feud and they just revaled the #1 answer on the board; and everyone went “huh?”
I understand Rodney Harrison was a great player, but it just seems a tad obscure to be the #1 MVDP in the past 20 years.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
ss
Yeah, it would be a nice change having a SS smack some on silly on a regular basis. I am sure Gachkar could do it. Unfortunately, Rodney was the last one to…
What makes you think he can play safety in the NFL?
I’m honestly curious, because I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he has the skills to play SS for this or any other professional team. Physical attributes do not make a pro player. I’m getting tired of pointing out that there is a lot more to playing safety than the highlight shots on TV.
"Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?"
2 for 1
Isaac Davis, G Arkansas
Vaughn Parker, G UCLA
Andre Coleman, WR Kansas State (sproles in a wr body).
Willie Clark, CB Notre Dame needed time to develop no time too really.
Aaron Lang, TE New Mexico State didn’t fit the chargers system. would have done well with the raiders.
Rodney Harrison, SS Western Illinois HOF soon to be
Darren Krein, DE Miami (FL) bust
Tony Vinson, RB Towson had ran so much in college was basically injured all the time shin splints.
Zane Beehn, Kentucky bust
Your question was outside of Parker and Harrison does anyone remember any of the names. 5th round pick from 1994 draft pick from Towson State in 1993 he lead the nation.
ll-American running back. In 1993, he led the nation in rushing yards with 2,016 (then an NCAA Division I-AA record), all-purpose yards (2,073) and points scored (138). Vinson was selected by the San Diego Chargers in the fifth round of the NFL draft in 1994. He made the Charger’s practice squad and accompanied the team to the January 1995 Super Bowl in Miami, where the Chargers lost.
Aaron Lang was picked because he was a pretty good pass catching Te from the WAC. He just didn’t cut it with the style the chargers had become. Smash mouth Running and defense.
Clark was drafted to be a starting Cb but should have been a nickel back. Bobby betheard put him in a no win situation.
Isaac Davis was a helluva 320 lb drive blocker in the running game. They almost always ran to his side. He needed more tutoring in pass protection. Not really a bad gamble. The next year the Chargers did run all the way to the super bowl in 1995 behind the legs of the the bomb.
Andre Coleman was the Chargers 4th wide receiver behind Tony Martin, Mark Seay, and Shawn Jefferson. Special teams in that year all but propelled the bolt to the super bowl Coleman was the kick returner and Darrien Gordon punt returner/starting corner. As a rookie, Coleman played in Super Bowl XXIX with the Chargers and set several Super Bowl records in the game: most kickoff returns (8), most return yards (244), and most total yards (244).
Coleman is currently the tight ends coach at Youngstown State University.1
This draft was not a total loss. 2 starting offensive lineman, Hof Strong Safety, and super bowl record setting 5’8 165 lb legit 4.27 or 28 speed spark plug. There was only 2 things that beathard could have done to ensure victory that year. 1. keep Anthony Miller for 1 more year. he only signed for 1 mil contract with the cowboys to leave. 2 keep Gary Plummer for 1 year. I believe he only signed for about 1 year 2 mil. Add miller and plummer to that 1995 superbowl in blue lightening and the out come would have been a lot different.Miller caught passes tripple covered most of the time. Imagine if he had Tony Martin, Mark Seay, Shawn Jefferson , Coleman as wideouts, Rb’s Means , Eric Bienemy, Ronnie Harmon and Te ALfed Pupunu. I cringed watching that whole Sb watching plummer & Norton shut down means!!
Darrien Gordon...
…was an amazing punt returner. He almost always made the first guy miss. Coleman ran several KOs back for TDs – Carney kicking – special teams were killer – usually have been until last year.
Lastly, from what I read, Gachkar is good in coverage – sounds like a good combo with his size for SS. But we shall see, he may have a big appetite and eat his way to LB…
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