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The Quinn Conundrum

After having a conversation with a fellow poster about Robert Quinn, I was inspired to write a post that a comment just did not seem to afford the proper justice.

The Chargers are in dire need of a difference maker. Shaun Phillips is a great talent, but he needs help in the front seven. I still have faith in Larry English because he showed promise near the season's close. Coupled with his work ethic, I think he has a chance to succeed. Mounting injuries have so far stunted his progress, and have plagued him since college though.

This draft, as most, has a dearth of players who project as true impact talents on defense. The list include Patrick Peterson CB, Nick Fairly DT, Marcell Dareus DL, Da'Quan Bowers DE, Von Miller OLB and Robert Quinn DE/OLB. The Chargers will reasonably have no chance at selecting all but one of these players, Robert Quinn.

Star-divide

The odds that he falls to their first pick at 18 are slim, but seemingly rising. Ordinarily they would have absolutely no chance at a player of his caliber, but he comes with an inordinate amount of baggage. Some of these issues could actually cause him, though it is not probable, to slip all the way down. It would be eerily similar to the manner in which they drafted their last impact player up front in Shawne Merriman.

The first big issue is regarding his character. Something this team does not take lightly and if it does not check out, this post would have been moot as he will not even be considered. Quinn was a part of the North Carolina improper benefits scandal that resulted in the NCAA banning him from play.

 

I do not believe that Quinn's mistake necessarily makes him a character risk. As a young, likely susceptible, man he made a mistake. He is certainly not alone in making a poor decision at a young age and a lone bad decision does not mean he is a bad person. On the contrary, if he demonstrates some admirable qualities by understanding that he made a mistake, being remorseful but owning it, he could be seen as having high character. AJ has stated before that he understands young players make mistakes and he judges them based on history, holding that the mistake wasn't huge obviously.

The next issue stems from his health as he has a benign brain tumor. This is clearly a large is issue that needs to be addressed. It has reportedly completely dropped him in the eyes of some teams.

Also, the NCAA ban withheld him from play. That obviously means that rust will be a factor. There were questions regarding his physical shape due to this that he answered, presumably, well at the combine as well.

The last point is in part a product of the previous point. He has really only had one truly productive season. He has two seasons worth of game tape. There are questions regarding his status as a possible one year wonder. Opposing teams were not affording the chance to adjust to his play after a year's worth of tape, thus he was not given the opportunity to improve upon his performance and adjust to their changes.

 


All of these likely add up to a big risk, and this is a year AJ cannot afford to miss with a 1st on. Especially if it means we have to trade up, possibly losing a 2nd and 3rd, or maybe more likely a future 2nd, in a draft we absolutely need to get several impact players from. But we are missing that one difference maker, and Quinn is really the one guy who seems most likely to fill that void. Players of this caliber are worth that pricetag.

AJ also has some tendencies. Namely, when he sets his target on a player, he goes after them despite how much it will take. If Quinn is that guy then AJ will be relentless in his pursuit of him. He moved up to 12 last year with much less firepower than he currently has at his disposal so there is the distinct possibility a trade up will occur.

He has also taken a chance on a similar rare talent who would not have fallen if not for unique extenuating circumstances when he took Antonio Cromartie. He similarly was inexperienced and missed the entire previous season. The risk at one time seemed to have paid off, but the luster has since dissipated. Cromartie did leave us with a nice parting gift in a late 2nd this year though so some thanks are in order. The point, however, is there is a relative track-record to this type of move with Smith.

There is a virtual mountain of questions that need to be answered for teams looking at selecting Quinn. Assuming that these drop him into a manageable range for the Chargers to move up, and assuming he passes the Chargers' tests, he could be the one dynamic player that catapults this defense back into the rank of the elite. That is a veritable heap of questions and hypotheticals though. Quinn is arguably the premier talent in this entire draft. He is one that comes with a plethora of risk, but one who may be well worth the chance.

This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.

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Personally I think the price will be too great...................

Not that we don’t need a difference making OLB, because we do. But this is a guy projected by most accounts to be a top 10 pick or possibly falling to Houston (who I believe is switching to a 3-4) at 11. Moving from 18 inside of 10 would likely be pretty expensive and cost us some of the picks we’ve accrued in the first 3 rounds.

I for one believe we NEED every one of those 5 picks. There are numerous holes we need tro plug and we finally have enough picks at the top of the draft to do it. We need to stay put and not sacrifice the volume of picks we have. tThe Patriots have done this the last 2 years and will likely be totally re-stocked with talent after this draft. We should be doing the same thing………………using all these picks to add quality depth at positions of need.

I think chances are excellent we will have an opportunity at 18 to draft either Watt, Wilkerson, or Jordan filling the need at DE.

And there are several guys who could be potential starters that will probably be there in the 2nd like Brooks Reed, Sam Acho, or Jabaal Sheard. Personally I like a 5 Tech DE in the 1st and Sam Acho in the 2nd at 50.

by J Korber on Mar 25, 2011 5:23 AM PDT reply actions  

How easily we forget

At the time of the conference title games, a whole lot of us were talking about the presence of difference makers on the defense for all 4 teams, that was the chargers greatest need. But a few months pass, and suddenly everyone forgets, and gets conservative with the picks, and gets leery of moving up.

You can get lucky and get a great player at any point in the draft, it just no accident that a really high percentage of the true difference makers tend to be really high picks. My opinion is that the chargers will find a really good player at pick 18, that will compliment this defense and it would be prudent decision. But to win the super bowl, a complimentary player is probably not what is needed, you need what Shawne Merriman was, or get lucky that Bob Sanders stayed healthy.

I saw Robert Quinn play, I thought he was top 3-5 pick, if you can get him at pick 10-12, that certainly sounds like a bargain, and worth the risk of trading up.

by TJBOLT on Mar 26, 2011 12:40 PM PDT reply actions  

All Things Remain the Same, Trading Up is in Our Best Interest

Problem is, the roster is not staying the same. If we can retain the most important players that are free agents, then I would definitely endorse a trade up. This is why the labor disagreement really hurts our team. We have so many important free agents that if we are able to retain the most important ones, we could go into the draft looking for that one impact guy. If we end up loosing a heap of them, then we will obviously need to retain our picks.

Pretending we have the same roster as last year then what to we need to upgrade? Pass rush is the priority. Run defense could use a boost. Depth at corner. Perhaps another receiver, but a similar injury spree occurring again would not be likely. Maybe an upgrade over Clary, but that really seems like a luxury to me. Another safety would be welcome too.

Fastforward to now. Safety could be in full crisis mode if Weddle leaves. If not, I think we are set. Sanders will clearly be an upgrade if he stays healthy. When the inevitable occurs, hopefully Stuckey will be ready to step in. If the season started with him as a starter it would be a little worrisome, but stepping in during the season could be an ideal situation for him.

At WR, hopefully Floyd does not go. It seems like there might be a good chance he does. Jackson, Crayton and Ajirotutu are not the worst set of receivers to have. Great QB’s can offset suspect receivers as we see every year with guys like Rivers, Manning and Brady. Smith likes to pick for the future though so there is probably a high chance that AJ takes one. I would not say it is a top priority necessarily even if Floyd leaves since we have PR.

At ILB I would be very surprised if we do not keep Burnett. He and Butler coupled could make a very good duo. Say we could keep Siler and his run stuffing skills then I really do not see this as a big need. Big ifs though.

RT will probably need to be addressed if Clary leaves. I would be surprised if he does.

We need to address OLB and DE unless we get a player from outside of the organization. Ditto for a nickelback most likely.

Sproles will be on another team but runningbacks are easily replaced for the most part.

Man, would it be nice if free agency occurs before the end of April or what?

So, bearing with me, say we keep Weddle, Burnett and Clary. That leaves the priorities as OLB, DE and then depth at WR, CB and perhaps OL still. Another DL would not be out of the question.

An impact player is a need. We are likely not getting that out of a DE in our defense. We need an upgrade though, but perhaps an Olshansky type of complimentary player is all that is needed for now, especially if we can get a great OLB.

The firepower we have is one 1, two 2’s and 3’s this year, plus we cannot rule out trading next year’s 2 as AJ has traded future picks there before.

Say that Quinn does indeed fall to something like 11 or 12. Teams like trading down more than trading up typically so we could perhaps get the better end on a basis of trade value. Something like packaging 18, 61, our future 2nd and maybe our 6 as we have a compensation pick there would be plenty of value considering the trade value chart.

What are we losing in the short term? A late 2nd, which AJ got in order to be flexible. A 6 who would probably not make the team too.

What does that translate to in terms of our needs? In the late 2nd we would be looking at depth at RT, ILB, WR and CB likely. Say we re-sign Clary and Burnett. Those needs drastically go down. We could still use an ILB, but the guys there would be Sheppard, Jones and Foster perhaps. What type of value do they provide over Siler and Butler? Probably very negligible.

At WR, there will be plenty of guys available in the 3rd. With Rivers this need is really truncated.

We also need depth at corner, but should also be able to find one in the 3rd.

We can still address DE at 50 as this is a deep draft, and could always trade up again for a player who falls a little.

Ultimately, this is all making a big assumption that we are going to retain our players. AJ has proven time and again he keeps the players we need. Even after they hit free agency and the need to increase the offer rises. See the contract given to Dielman. I firmly think AJ will not stand pat and allow our players to leave. I think this team will be aggressive in regards to retaining them.

So by trading up for a potential game changer at OLB, we give up the ability to draft a depth player, who could likely be had a round later in the draft, or a player who would not provide an upgrade over one of our mid level free agents that would probably not need a huge offer to retain.

If the lockout is thrown out by a judge so that last year’s rules apply, we would only likely be at risk of losing Burnett too.

What it comes down to is we will likely be able to easily withstand the impact of losing a 2nd round pick. I think doing that for a player who can take the defense to an elite level is well worth it.

by Rob Oz on Mar 26, 2011 5:46 PM PDT reply actions  

This is the proper title

Quinn is a conundrum. Every year NFL analysts pick some guy and just fall in love with him. Quinn is that guy. I don’t believe Quinn has shown enough to be a top 10 talent for all the reasons stated above. I could see something like the wonderlic test and his pro day at UNC on March 31 could end up making or breaking this guy.
If he falls to 18, he might be a good risk to take at that point with all those question marks, he’s not worth trading up for.
A great 3/4DE is can change the whole game for the Chargers and will allow us to see Larry English’s true potential and true potential of a 3/4 defense. If Wilkerson drops, he could be that guy.

BOOM!

by whatsapip on Mar 27, 2011 3:09 PM PDT reply actions  

My point is that Quinn is the conundrum. He is also not a guy who just came out of nowhere and skyrocketed up draft boards. Nick Fairly and even JJ Watt are examples off guys like this. Quinn’s stock has remained relatively steady for a while. People have known about him due to his freakish ability and the 09 season he had catapulted him into the #1 overall pick conversation before the scandal. The fact that he missed an entire year and has other issues that need to be answered but is still considered a potential top 10 pick is a testament to the guy’s ability and potential.

I don’t see how a wonderlic or pro day will have any affect to his stock. Pro day’s are perhaps the least valuable of the pre-draft events, except in the cases of players who could not perform at the combine. Even then since they are heavily controlled by schools their results are taken with a grain of salt. There have been many prospects who have had terrible wonderlic scores and did not have it affect their stocks. Patrick Peterson reportedly scored a 6 and the affect it has had to stock has been minuscule at worst. Many have gone on to be very successful despite bad scores. The inverse is also true as many bad players have had good scores. I don’t see how something so insignificant will be the deal breaker with a guy like Quinn.

I am still a fan of English. He needs to stay healthy. That is the one hurdle her has to overcome currently. The problem is he has not demonstrated that he can.

by Rob Oz on Mar 27, 2011 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

interview w/ AJ

After watching this, I don’t rule out AJ moving up and getting Quinn.

I apologies, I was saying your post is properly titled.

That being said, a bad wonderlic and a bad pro day(or not good enough) could make the decision makers go back and look at the tape. Of which there is not a lot of. He did not have a great combine for a guy that sat a year. I refer back to a fanpost right after the combine.

After watching the BC and Virginia tape, there is no doubt that he has top 10 talent.If you have ‘08 film I’d love to see it. More over, what I am trying to get across here is that all these things could add up to him falling out the top 12 where he could be a great steal for an athlete of this caliber and I would be more comfortable with giving our second pick in the 2nd round, instead of our first 2nd round pick.

I definitely could see him being past up by the Texans b/c they need a top shelf corner and they will need a nose tackle. Mario Williams maybe able to move over to OLB along with Brian
Cushing.

We need a game changer on D, if not 2 game changers. This draft is deep with front 7 guys that can make an impact. The more picks we have in the first 3 rounds the better. Therefore, keeping or trading down to get more picks in this years draft will increase our chances of finding game changing players, not at OLB, but also at DE and ILB.

It’s not the end of the world if don’t trade up and get Quinn. There are great DEs that can fit our system and make everybody better. A great DE should help Larry English get over that hurdle and added talent at his position should give him some extra motivation.

BOOM!

by whatsapip on Mar 27, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair Point

I wasn’t meaning to attack you or anything so sorry if I came off that way.

I actually heard that Quinn had an impressive combine. Perhaps not blowing the roof off of the place with a 4.5 40 and 45 inch vert, but he apparently came off well in interviews and had a 4.68 at 6’4 264. Coupled with the freakish athletic traits he showed on the field, I think there is little doubt about his talent.

There is definitely an argument to be had that he is a one year wonder because his 08 stats are not very impressive. Moreover, a decent amount of production in 09 came against out of conference competition and he was a little inconsistent week to week in sacks.

My big point is that while this is a deep draft class in DL talent, how many of those guys are game changing types rather than complimentary players? Even top DE prospects like Watt and Jordan are not expected to put up gaudy statistics. Quinn is one of the few who look like they have the ability to be impact talents.

This is a very very weak class of ILB’s and there is not expected to be anybody who is more than a good starter. Wilson looks like a stud on paper, but his instincts are severely lacking and his best bet may be a move to OLB. He is very stiff and straight-linish, but as a 3-4 rusher he could be good.

There really aren’t many game changers at the DE position in a 3-4. I am not saying this is not a huge need for us or should not be addressed high, but you just do not see these types of guys taking over games like Ware; or Merriman used to.

I certainly agree that a good DE will be a great addition to our defense. I think it is imperative that we add a talented player there, and who knows, maybe Larry English will turn into the impact player we need. I still have faith in him.

There is no doubt that he is very much a boom or bust type of player. Can we afford to take a risk like that? Definitely a hard question to answer. Pick wise, we can absorb a trade up holding that it is not too high. This may all be moot though as there is a strong chance he will go in the top 10.

by Rob Oz on Mar 27, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

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