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Norv Turner's San Diego Swan Song

Norv Turner's reign as the Head Coach of the San Diego Chargers has just three days left. After the Bolts get back from their game against the Raiders, Turner will be fired. It will either happen on Sunday night or Monday morning. "The Norv Turner Years" will end, whether it be with a whimper or a bang.

The players will respond by praising Norv. He was nothing but good to them, and they failed to live up to their end of the "player's coach" bargain (which is to be on point themselves without the threat of fire and brimstone). There will be lots of interviews with big name guys, and at least one black guy (hello, Raheem Morris!), and hopefully a quick hire so San Diego isn't left holding the bag at the end.

Norv Turner's 5-year career with the Chargers is his second-longest tenure, two years short of his 7-year stint as Head Coach of the Washington Redskins. He has spent 6 of his 21 years as a Head Coach or Offensive Coordinator in San Diego, and over those 6 seasons the team has won more than 60% of their games and 3 division titles.

Since going 2-1 in the playoffs in his first season, taking the team to the AFC Championship to face the undefeated New England Patriots, Turner has gone 1-2 in the playoffs and has missed the playoffs altogether in the last two seasons.

Star-divide

My brain always takes a while to process things. I know what's going on, whether it be a Coach getting fired or a family member dying, but it's like my emotions don't know which side to take until the dust is settled many months later. I don't know how I'm going to feel about the Norv Turner years as a Chargers fan, but I imagine it will be much the same way I feel about Ryan Leaf (BFTB - "tons of potential lost, mostly due to terrible luck", everyone else - "he sucks!").

I'll probably spend the next decade defending Norv, pointing out to angry Chargers fans that Norv got just the tail-end of LaDainian Tomlinson's career and was handed a crappy new Defensive Coordinator annually. The Special Teams failures of 2010 were not his fault. The injuries on the o-line in 2011 and the d-line in 2009 were not his fault. Serious injuries to Antonio Gates, Philip Rivers and Tomlinson heading into the Patriots game were not his fault.

Was he the best Coach in the league? Of course not. Was he the best Chargers coach ever? No, but I don't think he'll ever be as bad as people want to make him out to be. I understand that it makes it easier to cast him aside if you believe that he's an awful coach, but the truth is that Norv Turner is an average to above-average coach in the NFL and got caught in a bit of a pickle in San Diego. That's not to say he's blameless, but the blame is not entirely on him.

I also think it's too early to start talking about the next coach. Fire Norv, start interviewing guys, get an idea of who is available and how interested they are before asking me who I think the Chargers should hire. Until we've reached that point, I will continue to answer that question with "Vince Lombardi".

My game preview tomorrow will be dedicated to Norv. I expect Norv to pull out every trick in the book as an audition for his next job. I expect the Chargers to blow the Raiders out and the players to play with the same fire that we, the fans, saw against the Ravens. I expect it will make all of us feel the same way about the 2011 Chargers team as I feel about the entire Norv tenure, which is disappointed in the amount of potential squandered.

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UNIFORM CHANGES

Chnage back to the uniforms of the DAN Fouts ERA ,so much better looking than these white ones with what looks like pasted on bolts!

by BIRDMAN62 on Dec 29, 2011 10:10 AM PST reply actions  

Norv never had a chance

Plenty of Charger “fans” hated the guy on sight & never gave him a chance.

Those same folks are already hating the next HC – or loving him for all of the wrong reasons.

AJ is the one I’ll celebrate getting the ax.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:12 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

same here

AJ gone should be no problem, but a head coach leaving seems like a lot of changes are going to happen to this chargers team.

by john1 on Dec 29, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not difficult to argue

that Norv never really got a fair shake from fans. If it wasn’t for his name and history, and the circumstances that surrounded Marty leaving, Turner would never have been hated to the extent that he was based purely on performance.

A pirate I was meant to be!
"You say you're nasty pirates,
scheming, thieving, bad bushwackers?
From what I've seen I tell you
You're not pirates, you're just slackers!"

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Its what happens when a HC that went 14-2 gets fired at the end of that season

and replaced by a guy that had a sub .500 record. Vince Lombardi would have been grumbled at in those circumstances.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Funny thing

I remember plenty of hate for Marty right up till he was fired. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

I wonder if 2-3 subpar years will have people pinning for the good old days of Norv.

by CABurrito on Dec 29, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Not from me.

I figured that the loss would get the team even more focused for the next year’s playoffs. A lot of temas go one and done if they have not been there in a while. Look at how long it took Indy to get over the hump.

My concern with Norv is that he seemed to be a really good OC, but had not done much as HC. I really wondered how the team got upgraded with the change.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Marty had lost both of his coordinators

So we didn’t lose anything from the playcalling side. I also remember plenty of hate for Cam’s playcalling (a lot from me, and a fair bit justified after the playoff loss). Either way, the defensive coordinator was going to be new.

Marty wanted to bring his son in to be OC. He’s clearly had some success in that role with the Jets, but now it looks like he’s about to be run out of town. So the question is would you rather have Norv calling the plays and developing Rivers to his full potential, or Brian Schottenheimer?

by CABurrito on Dec 29, 2011 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Norv as offensive coordinator would have been a good hire

His HC resume at the time he was hired was weak, and I wondered about how much of an improvement the hire would turn out to be, Personally, I defended Turner from a lot of criticism, until last year.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Problem is

He was already an OC at the time, so it would have been a lateral move. Doubtful he would have been brought in under Marty (who wanted his son, and certainly would have been rightly suspicious of an AJ guy being installed as OC against his wishes), or as OC under a new HC.

I agree, I wish we could keep him just to call plays, but unfortunately that’s not how this world works.

by CABurrito on Dec 29, 2011 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't remember the Brian Schott part

But I do remember he wanted his brother Kurt to be D Coordinator. That was THE problem — AJ told him “hell no!”

by BORTZ on Dec 29, 2011 10:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Guess what?

You can pin that on 2 things ….

First, Dean didn’t have the nads to tell AJ AND Marty to stuff their differences & make it work. He’s the boss, after all.

Second, Marty played a big part in engineering his ouster from San Diego. He knew that nepotism would only be condoned for the owner’s family, yet he pushed the issue anyway.

Dean caved in to AJ.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

People conventiently forget

that Marty was largely responsible for his own departure.

A pirate I was meant to be!
"You say you're nasty pirates,
scheming, thieving, bad bushwackers?
From what I've seen I tell you
You're not pirates, you're just slackers!"

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He clearly wanted out, so he forced Spanos' hand.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

wrong

when Norv was hired…everyone knew this would not end well

On the other hand, you have different fingers.

by Hormel on Dec 29, 2011 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah I agree

it is not his fault he like to run Sproles up the middle on short yardage and goal line plays…

On the other hand, you have different fingers.

by Hormel on Dec 29, 2011 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

He has made tactical mistakes

But find me an NFL coach who hasn’t.

What’s the bigger weight on the scale: his 4th and 2 decision (which only happened once, btw), or the fact that they were even in that game at all despite losing Jamal, Hardwick, and LT the week before to injury?

Or how about this: 4th and 2 vs. taking that team to 13-3 despite having no running game to speak of and a defense held together with athletic tape and happy thoughts?

Criticize him all you want, but you have to weigh all the evidence.

by CABurrito on Dec 29, 2011 5:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I have one question for the fans

What chance does this team have to be good next year if Turner and AJ are fired? Bear in mind that they may lose three longtime OL starters and Vincent Jackson over the offseason, no matter who runs this team.

"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner

by Cake or Death on Dec 29, 2011 10:20 AM PST reply actions  

It's gonna be tough

There are more holes on this team than many are ready to admit.

Certainly a HC and/or GM combo will have their work cut out for them. Depends on what we can upgrade/fill in FA. Draft picks alone won’t do but so much for 2012.

I think we’re looking at .500 ball for a coupleof years.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

and whose fault is that

That the chargers have more holes than people ralize? A J. The O line has been in decline for a couple of years. Sure, L T has lost a step, but when your getting consistantly hit 2 to 3 yards in the backfield, the line ain’t getting it done. Th raidrs hav dominatd the line on both sides for a couple years now.The chargers were one of the most blitzed against teams the last few years. Why? you could say because they wanted to pressure Rivers. You could say because they didn’t respect our run game. You could say the line didn’t do a good job of stopping it. I say all the above. And, norv didn’t adjust. He kept calling the same plays, screen pass, medium passes to gates and bombs to jackson or floyd. I could be wrong, but I think a version of “the west coast offense” would have helped. Quick slants quick outs an occasional “trick” play.

by irishlad on Dec 29, 2011 10:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Lack of making adjustments has been Norv’s (and his staff’s) biggest issue over the past couple years.

by BFDC on Dec 29, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

You'll get no argument here

At least not on the AJ part.

His plan has had its chance.

The O-line has had it’s issues, one of the biggest being letting Houck slip away as position coach. But yeah – we’re certainly not 3-deep there.

IMO, defense has suffered the most. If you’re going to run a playmaking 3-4 defense, you’d better have a stout NT, DE’s who command double-teams much of the time, & a pass rush from the LBer group.

AJ let Jamal get old w/o a succession plan, kept Merriman around when it was obvious he was a drag on the team, reached for English, overpaid Tucker …. egotistical prig.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

AJ let Jamal get old w/o a succession plan, kept Merriman around when it was obvious he was a drag on the team, reached for English, overpaid Tucker …. egotistical prig.

Jamal was playing great until his injury in 2009, and Garay has been a solid replacement.

Merriman was a solid contributor even after his knee injury, and was dumped as soon as he couldn’t contribute anymore. English was rated as a first round prospect, and Tuckers payday was a potential deal which didn’t pan out but also didn’t hamstring the team. So he dealt fairly well with the deterioration of two star players, made a questionable draft pick, and took a low risk gamble on another player. In other words… he’s a GM. Which of these moves smacks of ego?

by CABurrito on Dec 29, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Garay is no Williams, though few are.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

agree

When houck was here the O line was dominant.

by irishlad on Dec 29, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

You realize the offense has been excellent every year but 2007 (when they were just above average) under Norv, right?

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Richard, straight up -- do you believe that Norv and AJ

should get another year or two to try and get a SB run out of this team? Not tryin to be a punk; this is serious and I do not want to start a flame war here.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Ooh -- ooh -- Can I take a stab at this one?

I too am curious what Richard would say. I have a prediction, but would only share it if asked.

by Andy (allfield) on Dec 29, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Jan 3, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

people

just don’t understand how many issues this team is going through.

by john1 on Dec 29, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Luckily

fans don’t run the entire show. Sure, we help to fund the operation & we sound off about this or that, but we don’t completely alter the course of an organization. It’s a good thing as a plan does need time to come to fruition.

I’m more than a bit on the fence about Norv but he’s as good as gone. Not as sure about AJ’s status but, IMO, his plan has had time to develop & has not delivered.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

But part of Dean's reasoning for firing Norv and AJ

is said to be the dwindling fan optimism.

"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner

by Cake or Death on Dec 29, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a juggling act to be sure

You do rely on ticket/merch sales to your fans for a good portion of your operating capital. At the same time, you can’t simply succumb to the average fans’ whims or you’ll never find consistency, only mediocrity with perhaps an occasional surge.

I’m a firm believer that if you really put winning first & foremost, the product will respond favorably & will be in demand.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

2012 could easily be another .500ish season but there are still a lot of good pieces here. The team needs a new coach that will use those pieces to their full ability while filling around them. I don’t think its time for a total blow-up and rebuild.

by BFDC on Dec 29, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying a total blowup is necessary

but Dean has to be smart about this. They need someone who will execute the best plan to take advantage of Rivers thirties.

"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner

by Cake or Death on Dec 29, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree. I’m saying they need someone who can really make good with the pieces that are in place now and then build from there.

by BFDC on Dec 29, 2011 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Depends on who they hire.

If it’s a guy like Jim Harbaugh we shouldn’t have much to worry about.

by Kame on Dec 29, 2011 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll remember him for helping advance Rivers career

but not helping anyone else’s. Rivers has had a “rough” year, but in all I think the marriage between Rivers and Turner has helped him immensely.

But I’ll also remember Norv as never, ever blaming himself for a loss. The Mavericks just got skunked in 2 home games and the first thing Rick Carlisle said after the 2nd loss was “Its my fault, I’m not getting the guys ready to play. I have to be better.” Norv would never do that.

He had his chance against the Jets in ’09. Life is about opportunity and what you do with it. He got out coached by Rex Ryan; plain and simple. He missed his best opportunity that year.

Keep AJ. Fire Norv. Draft better. And lots of hope is all I got for 2012.

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Dec 29, 2011 11:06 AM PST reply actions  

Is having the most accurate kicker in league history miss multiple field goals getting out-coached?

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention VJ kicking the flag and SP throwing a headbutt

That game was a total player breakdown in almost every way.

"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner

by Cake or Death on Dec 29, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

STILL NORV'S FAULT

He doesn’t know how to instill discipline in his team.

[/sarcasm font]

"The only thing I hate more than Raiders fans is Chargers fans." - A Chargers fan

Gaslamp Ball Wiki - All you need to know about Gaslamp Ball, its members, and all the inside jokes
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 29, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Can always find a few diamonds in a bed of coals.

However, mostly it’s still coal. Some of you guys have the ability to see the best things here and point out how those things contributed to the losses and aren’t “Norv’s Fault”.

The reality is, most of it was a direct reflection of his horrible coaching, and yes. Failing to install discipline in the team was a HUGE factor.

Trace affects of Kool-aid still mixed in the blood stream.

by ArksnBolts on Dec 29, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, there was a lot of things out of his control

Cromartie not attempting to tackle and Weddle attempting to tackle Mr. Greene, Rivers throwing 2 picks, etc.

But thats the thing; that was his opportunity and he(and the players) blew it. The Jets kept it close at the half, they kept pounding the run, and eventually the 4th qtr it paid off. He will probably never get that chance again (as a Head Coach).

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Dec 29, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Next year WILL be tough

Unless the team hits gold with some key FA acquisitions (which ownership is loathe to delve too deeply into), or current young players develop beyond what we see their potential to be (Gilchrist, Stuckey, Schilling, Gamble, Mouton), or they have a draft for the ages, it’ll be break-even at best.

But what would it be with Norv? I have tried to remain positive re: Norv over the years, crediting him with the team’s success (in terms of Wins). But I keep seeing tired play, inconsistency, slow starts. Just the same old thing. No development, no adjustments. Okay, not “no.” I don’t mean to speak in absolutes. I hate when people do that. Let’s just say “not enough.”

The other thing that strikes me is the contrast between how this team plays at home vs. on the road. At home, they can show such fire (Baltimore), but when they go on the road, it’s like they walked through a tunnel of water that doused the fire (Detroit).

Yes, I accept the deficiencies of the years to come. But I’d rather accept them with a new face on the sideline. The only difference between Norv Turner and Dan Henning was that Norv had better talent to work with.

by Andy (allfield) on Dec 29, 2011 11:09 AM PST reply actions  

Haha

Kinda funny, but Dan Henning was the only man on Earth who could stop Barry Sanders. Norv Turner is no Dan Henning.

by BORTZ on Dec 29, 2011 10:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Tired of defending Norv

I’m over it. AJ too. I tried to think they would overcome, but clearly not. I just wish somewhere in this renaissance they could have cobbled together a stadium deal. When LA happens I will be a homeless football fan. A crazy, drunk, deranged homeless football fan.

by ElectricTerp on Dec 29, 2011 11:10 AM PST reply actions  

Great news is always followed by Bad

Norv is gone, FINALLY. I’m not a Chargers fan but do follow them and I’m friends with enough of fans and listen to XX1090 and 1360 enough to have wanted the guy gone. No one likes him. Hopefully AJ follows him out so he can go e’ff up our mutually hated Raiders :)

Unfortunately this good news has been followed by news that the Chargers downtown stadium plans just took a body shot. The CCDC (San Diego’s Redevelopment Agency), which was providing some of the funds toward building the stadium is being shut down. The state supreme court just ruled that the legislature’s AB 26 killing redevelopment is legal and can go forward and the AB 27 (pay to play) that the CCDC and other like agencies were going to use to stay in business has been shot down as unconstitutional. All of which means the Chargers stadium plan is now out a fair chunk of change. :(

by athletics68 on Dec 29, 2011 11:52 AM PST reply actions  

Dang

The CCDC was just the part of the Redevelopment Agency that fostered public-private partnerships. I know a lot of people who are bummed because they just lost their jobs — screw the stadium.

by BORTZ on Dec 29, 2011 10:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Completely Forgot

Williams on the Defensive Line too. And Castillo being hurt so often, etc.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Dec 29, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: your last point in concern of a "retread"

Ask Wade Phillips or Cam Cameron how their first shot at a head-coaching gig went for them.

There’s definite concern on both sides of that coin.

"The only thing I hate more than Raiders fans is Chargers fans." - A Chargers fan

Gaslamp Ball Wiki - All you need to know about Gaslamp Ball, its members, and all the inside jokes
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 29, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Wade sucked in Denver AND Buffalo before he sucked in Dallas

And neither guy is very young. Anyway, it’s all a crapshoot. Young guys can suck, too. Todd Haley, Josh McDaniels, Raheem Morris.

by BORTZ on Dec 29, 2011 10:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

in another thread

the current coaches that seemed to have found sustained success: Belichick, Payton, McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Tomlin, all except Belichick had no prior HC experience, and Belichick had made a name for himself after Cleveland by his tenure in NYG.

So, it seems a competent, innovative HC coming in as head coordinator with limited prior HC experience is a necessary but insufficient ingredient. Not all coordinators without HC experience will be good HC, but the current batch of successful HC’s suggest a retread will not yield great results.

by jayman66 on Dec 30, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh absolutely

The point I was trying to make was that a new head coach here isn’t necessarily going to be an improvement just because they’re “Not Norv.” It could be a retread, or a new up-and-coming young pup, there are examples on both sides why neither is necessarily the best idea.

To get all clichéd: the grass isn’t necessarily greener on the other side because the devil we know may actually be better than the devil we don’t.

How’s that for combining idioms?

I do like your point though that the current crop of seemingly-good coaches had no previous HC experience.

That said, one thing I certainly don’t want to see land the HC job is a college head coach.

"The only thing I hate more than Raiders fans is Chargers fans." - A Chargers fan

Gaslamp Ball Wiki - All you need to know about Gaslamp Ball, its members, and all the inside jokes
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 30, 2011 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh God, yes!
That said, one thing I certainly don’t want to see land the HC job is a college head coach.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 30, 2011 5:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate reading all this

depressing sh*t… look this year is over a new coach can come in and give the Chargers an identity. I mean Look at the Chiefs right now their personnel is depleted but with a coach that knows his teams strengths and inspires they have played better ball. If the Chargers lose VJ oh well.. the quarter back makes a WR. Plenty of other talent out there without off field issues and talent that does not take off plays in games. The O-line is an issue lets hope it gets fixed the defense needs some play makers or a COACH that will get in their faces and demand some results. Finally, one last thing we are in the AFCW need I say more.

by Mikeswc on Dec 29, 2011 12:31 PM PST reply actions  

I wasn't happy when the Chargers hired Norv

and I am o.k. with him being fired, but I think that he did a quality job while he was here. He won a bunch of games, won the division multiple years and even won a few playoff games. I am not convinced that the next head coach will have better results.
It is always easy to blame the head coach and no doubt there are things that he could have done differently but he won games.

by JeromeB on Dec 29, 2011 12:53 PM PST reply actions  

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