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Thoughts on how to assemble the Chargers


This stretch, including last season, has been especially depressing. More depressing is my complete lack of confidence in Chargers front office's ability to make good choices in replacing Turner and/or Smith. Anyway, I have been thinking a lot about what makes a good HC and GM.

Star-divide

The dominant teams in football seem to (I am sure there are exceptions) fall into two categories:

Teams with "elite" quarterbacks who can run dominant, "pass first" offenses. I see New England, New Orleans and Indy (prior to P. Manning's injury) and Green Bay in this camp. Detroit may follow is Stafford can continue to develop.

The others are teams that have adequate quarterbacks, but compensate through a solid running game and dominating defenses: Baltimore, Pittsburgh. Others that are trying that: SF, NY Jets. Houston, prior to Schaub's injury, perhaps as well and Chicago (prior to Cutler's and Forte's injuries)

But it seems to me that the scarce resource in the NFL is one of those "elite" QB's. I think Rivers is one of those, whose talents have not been well developed, and, instead, Turner has attempted to run a "balanced" offense, like the 90s Cowboys. Establish the running game, take deep shots. When it works, it is great, but this personnel does not fit.

I look at the personnel surrounding Brees and Brady not that different from San Diego except for the OL. Basically I see good TE's, a line that can pass protect, RB's that do well because the defense has to stop the pass (and they can catch) and WR's that look brilliant but probably are not that great. Build that and then worry about your defense. If the other team cannot stop your passing attack, your defense's expectations are pretty low. If you happen to have a great D, you are in good shape to do very well (like Green Bay currently is).

So, for me, they both Turner and Smith deserve to go, for not building around their core asset, Rivers. I continue to believe Rivers can run a complicated, varied pass first offense. Turner seems to be about the deep threat, then opening up the middle for Gates. You keep the defense offense by steadily running as well. It works well when it works, but we do not seem to dominate and be consistent and Rivers seems to have trouble finding open guys this year. I watch Brady and Brees spread it around, suggesting good variety in the play calling allowing many receivers to participate, making it hard to defend. I don't think you need "elite" receivers to run NE or NO type of offenses. Having very athletic, pass catching TE's does seem key (Graham, Gronkowksi). Gates may be aging, but he can still do it, though I would put a pass catching TE on the draft list.

So beef up the OL, get another TE who can catch and get an offensive coordinator that can create novel, varied passing attack, consistently using a wide variety of receivers and we will be up there with NE and New Orleans. We have Rivers, putting us on a very short list of teams with a dominant QB. I don't know the source of his struggles this year, but I have hard time seeing him struggle running the type of offense the NE or New Orleans runs. Seems like for Turner's offense, all of the pieces have to work together for it work: legit deep threat, healthy TE and OL that can pass block and consistent running game. When those click, they dominate. But when one of those pieces is not there, it stagnates. Aside from the QB and maybe the TE, I don't see one player being critical to those other offenses, assuming you have depth in your OL.

This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.

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Thats the O's problem

Norv is running a 90’s offense and everyone caught on years ago. As the players leave, get old, etc, they get worse as teh telent is no longer there. They are simply being out coached.

by borno on Dec 28, 2011 2:17 PM PST reply actions  

You realize that Norv's offenses with San Diego have been (in order) 14th, 1st, 4th, 4th & 6th in the NFL by DVOA, right?

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I think that Rivers has had a history of issues with short passes

What do you think bout that? This year of course there have been issues with all passes. Has his short touch improved?

by chaplinesque on Dec 28, 2011 4:17 PM PST reply actions  

The comments about the 90's style O and PR's QB style/skill set are valid

Most offenses now are a a hybrid of the West Coast / Spread type offenses with 4 or 5 receivers in patterns 3 step, 5 step, and every now and then a 7 step drop. QB’s are getting more mobile, not necessarily Vick, Rodgers, or Newton mobile, but mobile enough to shift position andnot give the opposing pass rush a spot to converge upon. Look at the list of “elite” QB’s again. Guys that get the ball into the playmakers hands within a 2 or 3 beat count of the snap. Guys that like working in the shotgun. The deep ball is used when the chance is there and to stretch a defense, not the primary focus of the pass play. In other words, not PR’s style at all.

In some ways, the offense for PR has to be modified for his skill set, much in the way the Fox in Denver has had to design an offense for his QB. I do not think PR could run a Payton/Reid/McCarthy style quick passing attack. I agree with the evaluation of the post about the best teams in the league. I do not agree that this should be the focus.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 28, 2011 8:21 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

thanks for the insightful response

I had assumed that we ran the offense that way because that is what Turner liked not because of limitations of PR. And I think that West Coast spread offense, run effectively, will trump any other offensive model, on average. I could be wrong. But, to support my position, ff Green Bay counts as running the spread, then 5 of the last 8 SB winners have run it (Green Bay, New Orleans, Indy, New England x2). The passing patterns and creativity just seem too much for defenses to handle. Especially with a 3-4 step drop, pass rushes are hard to establish.

Makes the choice to draft PR when we had Brees all the harder to accept. Many on this site have pointed out that letting Brees walk, after his injury, was the smart thing to do. My gripe is that why did we spend a #1 draft pick on a QB when we had Brees? You can bash Marty, but he clearly believed in Brees (though did not maximize his abilities with the focus on the run).

Clearly the prior year (when we had the #1 pick) was a bad year, but that assessment by Smith counts against him as well. Yes, he finagled a great deal out of NY, but then we have two starting caliber quarterbacks when you really don’t need two. And it looks like we kept the wrong one, if indeed PR cannot really run the spread. I really like PR but by my definition (most likely flawed), elite QB’s are ones that can run the spread very, very well, like Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers (really don’t know Rodgers’ style that well).

This game is such a strange combination of brutality and subtilty; huge dudes bashing each other while playing out a chess match. I hope we get a good chess master in our next go ’round.

by jayman66 on Dec 28, 2011 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

And when we put it together

We can see that Marty was trying to establish a type 2 team – adequate QB (no turnovers, strong arm, “game manager”), strong running game, elite defense. It really is peculiar; PR’s skill set favors that type of team, but we have lacked the playmakers on defense and the elite runner since the end of 2007 season.

Rodgers style? Think Brady + a dash of Vick and that pretty much sums up where his game is now. Rodgers has kind of gone into his own zone the last 25 games he’s played in.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 5:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think the Spread offense

is any better than the Coryell (sp?) offense that we run. In fact I would argue that it is just as good, if not better – GIVEN the personnel for it. Spread offenses (IMO) thrive when there are a number of quicker type WRs that do not have to be big. Coryell offenses use big WRs by nature in hopes to take advantages of 1-on-1 coverages. Don’t forget that last year WE had the number one overall offense – not any of the teams that you named. The success however to any offense is going to be about the personnel and their OLs. The last couple of years we have dealt repeatedly with injured/“not on the field” WRs, RBs and Offensive Linemen. That alone will significantly hinder the success of any offensive strategy.

by MacDeezul on Dec 29, 2011 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Marty was a big fan of Rivers coming out of college. All had given up on Brees after his terrible season.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2011 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

The job was open for competition, and Drew won it.

Nobody was done with him, but AJ’s incentive-laden contract offer was a vote of no confidence.

Yakety Sax: Making divisional matchups hilarious since 1963.
Gaslamp Ball: SMELLS LIKE PROSPECTS IN HERE

Please, call me StrangeBro.

by StrangeBroP25 on Dec 29, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

This.

Not like Rivers has been a huge step down anyway. It wasn’t a terrible mistake.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Different skill set, but PR is absolutely among the best (throwing out this season)

Certainly good enough to take a team where it needs to go — really hoping he has gotten over the INT run he had this season.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know if its so much "short passes"

as much as it is his arm strength. I don’t think he throws those passes that require a “gun shot” to get in very well. But what is VERY good at is touch and accuracy – maybe among the best. That’s how come (IMO) why we are so effective in those medium – to – deep passes where he can adjust the arrival of the ball based upon where he anticipates the WR/TE/RB to be. But that’s just me.

by MacDeezul on Dec 29, 2011 8:10 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree about the offensive focus in the draft

If we can fix the Oline / get a cheap pass reliable TE / resign our current WR (and they stay healthy) I really like our offense. I know the D needs work as well but I have confidence in Rivers to keep up with anybody if we fix some of those issues.

by chaplinesque on Dec 28, 2011 4:19 PM PST reply actions  

I think we can find a steal of a TE

in the very later rounds of the draft and probably in the rookie free agent market. I wouldn’t waste a draft pick on one when we have much more pressing matters to fill on our team. Primarily the Defense, then the OLine. Plus depending on who you bring in as HC and OC, the TE position may require a different skill set than what we are used to having based upon their offensive philosophy – so you risk picking something that may or may not be as pressing a need as we are used to it being. Draft Defense – fix Offensive Line/OL Depth – Resign your offensive skill positions (if not just for the sake of having some type of chemistry and familiarization during this rebuilding process).

by MacDeezul on Dec 29, 2011 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Pass-rusher in the 1st; OL, and either OL or CB, in day 2.

Beyond that, a TE, another OL, a project QB, and another pass-rusher are all good options.

Ideal would be somewhere along the lines of
1st: Pass-rushing DE/OLB
2nd: OT
3rd: OG
4th: TE
5th: DE/OLB
6th: QB
7th: BPA

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 28, 2011 6:34 PM PST reply actions  

I respectfully disagree.

I think we HAVE to fix our DB situation. (Remember Detroit ) The only player we have in our secondary that is consistently worthy of starting every down is Weddle – that’s it. I think you have to find whomever the “stud” DB is that is in the draft (SS or CB) and go after him in the 1st. Then I think we go after that raw-monster ILB in the 2nd and if he isn’t there we go after the best starting DB we can get our hands on.

After that LB/DL/OL should be all that we are drafting (IMO). The rest of the positions can be entertained via the rookie free agency and player free agency markets (where we normally never play).

by MacDeezul on Dec 29, 2011 8:29 AM PST up reply actions  

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.

In fact, the only thing I would change from Neo’s order is I would switch the 3rd and 5th rounders. Yes, get TWO DE/OLBs in the first 3 rounds.

What we saw in the Detroit game — and let’s face it a MAJORITY of games — is that the Charger pass rush is limited at best. And a power pass rush improves DB play IMMENSELY. But the reverse is not true. Here’s a paraphrased play by play from earlier this season: “Brady drops back to pass. Stands in the pocket. Plenty of time to throw. Looking, looking… shuffling his feet. Brady… finally, throws downfield. Branch has got it. Inside the Charger 30! Gain of 25 yards on the play!” Nothing wrong with the DBs on that play. But no pass rush.

by Andy (allfield) on Dec 29, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Then they'll have to come from FA

because this draft doesn’t have much in terms of sure-thing pass rushers, particularly when asking the pick to switch from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:51 AM PST up reply actions  

If no great looking pass-rusher pick in the first round, take a lineman

And a pass-rusher in the second.

Looks like we also need a Center. Either Gaither or McNeill will be back, but Dielman is toast, and Hardwick probably has one or two more years.

1st: OLB/DE, RT (may trade down), OG (if a rare prospect is to be had)
2nd: RT or OLB/DE, whichever not taken in 1st
3rd: OL (C or OG)
4th: OLB/DE or OL
5th-7th: BPA, focusing on OL, QB, DB, OLB/DE, TE, RB/KR who can catch, K

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

That's why I think he won't retire.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

But we've been warned: it's time to draft a Center.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

FA or late rounds.

TE body type is not rare. Takes a few years to build a TE. Current squad is aging, but great.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Dream scenario

Trade #15 (1050 pts) down to #25 and #57, end up with two OLB candidates, a Guard, and a Tackle, all on the first two days. Center in round 4, and three picks to just go fishing for gems at any position whatsoever. Next year, draft a new LT in the first, and then go fishing for DBs or plug new holes.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Whitney Mercilus? Courtney Upshaw?

Walter Cherepinsky predicts 8-11 OLB/DEs as 2nd-day stock or better… how wrong is he?

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Miles Burris

Pass Rusher that is already familiar with the 3 man front.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Upshaw too.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2011 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Upshaw will probably need a 1st round pick

Burris will still probably be there in the 2nd round — maybe the 3rd, depending on how well he does at the combine. But I would up for either an impact pass rusher OR stud O-lineman with our first round pick.

North Texas REALLY needs a Rubio's franchise.

by SDNativeinTX on Dec 29, 2011 8:35 PM PST up reply actions  

#18 on Upshaw: is he worth it?

If not, or if not available, we can get a guy in the second. But I think a good pass rush would make this defense truly dominant. You don’t need a great secondary if there’s no time to throw and no hope to rely on scrambling or blocking the ROLB with a halfback. Barnes is not terrible, but he’s no Merriman!

But the real key will be in getting a dominant LG or RT, preferably a LT prospect who can slide over after Gaither/McNeill is done. Somebody who can hold defenders off of PR and block for the backfield committee. Somebody who will help us punch it in at the goal-line, who will be the franchise player that Tyronne Green and Brandyn Dombrowski are so emphatically not!

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Everyone keeps saying that

you don’t need a great 2ndary if you have a great pass rush …. well we don’t. In fact the word anemic seems to be a pretty good word to use when describing our pash rush – even with antwan barnes stepping up his game. Sooooo if you have neither a pass rush nor a pass defense don’t you think that you should draft at least one or the other early in hopes to get better somewhere one the defense? We can have a great offensive line but teams that can run and invest in the run (oakland, denver, kc) can keep that great offensive line on the sideline by just running over us and coverting short third down passes.

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure. But look at available resources.

Both safety positions are taken care of, TBH. We have three limited but serviceable corners. A first-round pick spent on a corner will immediately net us only another limited but serviceable player, until he gets a couple years’ time. After the first-round, corners are a crapshoot. That same first-round pick could shore up our OL, improve our run game, and protect our $92M man.

By contrast, if you want to beef up your pass rush, you draft a bunch of guys in the middle rounds and pick up a free agent, and you’re almost assured of getting a hit somewhere. If there isn’t a first-rounder you want to pull the trigger on, grab a second and a third, and you’ll have a much better shot at getting a hit.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I respectfully agree with your disagreement of my disagreement

Lol.

I think with the return of Luis Castillo , a healthy Phillps, an emerging Butler and Barnes, and possibly a dveeloping liguet that our pash rush will be more effective ( I THINK ). That being said I do not have enough fingers and toes to tell ou how many times i counted our DBs playing follow the leader with WRs – allowing them to catch the ball and then tackling them afterwards. But either way I do think we agree that defense has to be a priority with the 1st 2 outta 3 rounds? ight rnow we have 2 or 3 2nd stringers or nicekl backers in our pool of DBs (not counting weddle n thiis) and a bunch of special teamers

by MacDeezul on Dec 29, 2011 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

1st, 2nd, 3rd

1st Round: Dre Kirkpatrick
6’3, 192 pounds | Cornerback | Alabama

First word: Kirkpatrick started 12 of Alabama’s 13 games in 2010 at left cornerback. He finished the year with three interceptions, seven pass breakups and 53 tackles. As a freshman in 2009, Kirkpatrick sat and learned behind Javier Arenas and Kareem Jackson. Leading into his junior year, Kirkpatrick has all the tools to be an elite cornerback. He’s still a work in progress, however, and much of the praise surrounding him is based on projecting potential.

2nd Round: Ray Ray Armstrong
6’4, 215 pounds | Safety | Miami
First word: How good is Ray Ray Armstrong? He lives up to his number, 26. It’s quite a feat considering it was worn by former Miami star Sean Taylor. It’s easy to compare the two. Like Taylor, Armstrong is a big, physical safety with solid coverage skills. NFL teams are already getting in touch with Armstrong’s high school coaches to get more background on the junior.

Armstrong started only four games of the 2010 season, but saw significant playing time throughout the year. He finished 2010 with 76 tackles and three interceptions (taking one back for a touchdown).

3rd round: James-Michael Johnson | 6’2, 240 pounds | MLB | Nevada
“Nevada defenders have a tough time trying to make people take notice of their play because of the team’s offense, which ranked fourth in the FBS in total yardage in 2010. But Johnson’s toughness and production has not escaped notice of WAC coaches, who named him second-team all-conference in each of the last two seasons, and NFL scouts.

Johnson played in all 13 games with 10 starts as a redshirt freshman. Included in his 49 tackles were 12.5 for a loss, and he also had 1.5 sacks, an interception and forced fumble. He started every game over the next two seasons, making 57 tackles, 11.5 for loss, and five pass break-ups on the outside in 2009 before moving to the middle as a junior (88 tackles, eight TFL, 2.5 sacks, three forced fumbles).

Teams running base schemes should see Johnson as one of the top true mike linebackers in this draft because of his ability to come downhill against the run. If he proves himself athletically in a post-season all-star game and the Combine could push him into the top 100 overall selections.

4th Round: Adrian Robinson | 6’2, 250 pounds | DE/OLB | Temple
“As a prolific pass rusher (33 sacks his last two seasons) and Most Valuable Player of the famed “Big 33” all-star game between the top high school prospects from Ohio and Pennsylvania (three sacks, blocked punt), Robinson could have matriculated to Penn State or a host of other prominent programs. He surprisingly chose Temple, though, because he knew then-head coach Al Golden had the football team going in the right direction and he “liked being the underdog.”

Golden got Robinson’s talent on the field right away, playing him in all 12 games and starting him at defensive end the final three contests (20 tackles, 1.5 TFL, sack). Robinson’s break-out sophomore season earned him MAC Defensive Player of the Year accolades after racking up 13 sacks and forcing five fumbles. Though his numbers were down in his junior season (38 tackles, 4.5 TFL, 3.5 sacks, three forced fumbles), league coaches saw enough of his game to once again name him first-team All-MAC.

Though Robinson is listed as a defensive end, Temple coaches have played him all over the field. In addition to rushing the passer with his hand on the ground, Robinson played outside the tackle, over the tight end, and at the second level in a stack. New defensive coordinator Chuck Heater may play him as a more traditional 4-3 end like he did Jermaine Cunningham and other undersized ends while at Florida, but the versatility Robinson showed during his career may push 3-4 teams looking for powerful linebackers to select him early in the 2012 draft.

5th round: John Cullen | 6’4, 305 pounds | OT | Utah
Is far from a finished product, but there is some real natural athleticism there. Needs to get stronger and develop as a puncher, but has to take that next step as a player. Struggles vs. better competition."

6th round: Phillip Blake | 6’3, 320 pounds | C | Baylor
Pass Blocking: Former right tackle possesses the length and footwork to mirror any interior lineman. Plays with low center of gravity, natural bend and lateral quickness. Flashes a strong enough anchor to pancake overextended defenders, but can be pushed backwards when his hands aren’t on his man’s numbers. Also gets out-quicked when hand placement is off. Reliable, accurate shotgun snapper.

Run Blocking: Strong run blocker capable of moving the nose tackle to his left or right with his upper body. Agile enough to seal to either side when uncovered. Inconsistent down-blocking and finding the mike linebacker on combo blocks in tight quarters, gets stuck at the line at times instead of moving to second level. Inconsistent intensity and hand placement to sustain after initial contact. Stops his feet too often, losing his balance or allowing his man comes off his block. Stays low, gets some movement in short-yardage situations but typically just holds the line.

7th round: Derek Moye | 6’5, 202 pounds | WR | Penn State
Impression: A big wide out who uses his skill set to get off press and has some sneaky strider speed down the field. Isn’t going to separate a ton in the NFL, but can win in the three step game, work the middle of the field."

by MacDeezul on Dec 29, 2011 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice job.

But still I think pass rush is arguably a more pressing matter than ILB even with an aging spikes and an unknown Mouton. Is there a better prospect than Robinson in the 3rd?

I would like to trade up our #1 pick for a 1st and 2nd or something, but I could live with your choice of a stud CB.

by Lightning Hobo on Jan 1, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

thanks.

man didn’t we look bad though chasing their (Oak) WRs down the field just hoping that we could tackle them before they scored……

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

You do know that McNeill and Dielman are both probably done, right?

As in, toast, retired, gone. We may extend Gaither and Hardwick… for a year or two. We need a franchise LT, LG, and C. Also, as goes AJ, so goes Clary, most likely. That means our draft is all about beef on the line, unless we can get the one piece we need to make our defense dominant.

If the BPA in the first round is a CB, then that’s okay. You need a high pick to get a high likelihood of a good CB. But I’m actually fairly optimistic about Cason/Gilchrist going forward, and the odds of getting a total game-changer are small. Besides, look at the Jets: a great CB is only handy so long as you can stop the run. By contrast, all-around OLBs generate impact in every phase of the game.

How can you not remember all those first-downs the defense gave up when the QB couldn’t find anybody to throw at, so just tucked it under and ran? Need a guy to stop that, somebody as quick as Barnes and as big as Phillips. Failing that, protect the family jewels, keep the window open.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a good point.

McNeil may be done because of career-type of injury (?) But if we retain Gaither he has proved worthy, in my opinion, of holding that LT spot and he is only 25 or so. So that leaves with a hole at Gaurd and possibly Center (?) – both accounted for in my draft wish list because each player could really be slotted at either the T/G or C/G positions I think (???) so you go out there and get a journeyman lineman out of free-agency and try to get lucky in the rookie free-agency for more depth and a possible starter at the o-line. But I just don’t know if you can just NOT address the defense.

I hear what you’re saying about the OLB but its very rare to find a specimen that can stop the run, rush the passer, and cover as well; and even if you do then it’s too easy to gameplan around that 1 dude (unless he at the Lawerence Taylor level). Again, In MY opinion. I think we are 3 starters short of having a legitimate top 15 defense and the positions in need include LB (in and out) and our whole DB backfield (minus Weddle).

You may be right though. Maybe Cason just had a bad year. Maybe the scheme didn’t take advantage of his skill set. But I dont think that you have a top DB if you have to implement a particular scheme in order to make them effective…. it should be the other way around – their skills should be the key that makes the scheme so effective.

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's another way of looking at it.

Argument 1: beat the AFCW.
Raiders: great halfback, mobile game manager QB.
Broncos: mobile game manager QB/RB.
Chiefs: one-two halfback punch, game manager QB.
Stopping the pass alone, what you get for your hefty secondary investment, is not going to beat those guys. You have to stop the run with your pass rush, and once you flush the passer, you have to take him down. Or you can just score a lot on offense and take the game out of contention.

Argument 2: Relative value. If we pick up a shiny new CB, he’s worth his value on the field, less the relative value of the player who doesn’t get fielded (Cason? Gilchrist?) in his stead. Those players are good, but kind of limited, so your shiny new CB may be a step up. If we pick up a shiny new OL, we can compare him to Tyronne Green, Brandyn Dombrowski, Jeromey Clary, or a late pick that might also be better than those clowns. Which has more impact NOW?

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah that makes a lot more sense

when you look at it from that perspective. However too me our run defense isn’t necessarily the problem. Yes we give up yards but our run defense is a lot more stout than our pass defense. Bring Castillo back, another year for Luiget and Garay, Butler is getting better and Spikes is solid even if he is old and has lost a step or two. What kills me is watching our DBs chasing their WRs across the field on just about every route they run – slants, gos, outs, hooks, posts, etc…. we just don’t cover well at all. And then if we want to step outside our division and actually go someplace when we get to the playoffs who do we have to face? The Patriots? The Steelers? The Peyton led Colts? The Texans?… all of these teams are gonna kill you through the passing attack.

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think our DBs are so bad.

I think they’re used to having to defend forever, so they play too conservatively.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats probably where we differ then

and why we are both taking different approaches to fix the team. See I think our DBs are terrible. Outside of Weddle I don’t think a DB (CB/FS/SS) on our team is in worthy of top 50 consideration. Now that may just be me and I do tend to exaggerate at times but its just my feelings. Please don’t ask me to name 50 other players because I know as soon as I get out of the top 10 many people are gonna argue that Jammer is top 10 (I remember having that discussion before – lol! ) Again. Its just my feelings/thoughts on the matter. Not better, not worse – just my 2 cents I guess.

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Jammer was top 10... not now.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 3, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Defense first

I’d be willing to take a stud OL in the 1st, especially if we lose 2 or all of McNeill/Dielman/Hardwick. And I’m interested in TE’s. Maybe Fleener in the 3rd? Beyond that, it’s defense defense defense for me.

I wouldn’t even be particularly conciliatory about the 1st round pick, but I think we need to go BPA there & it could well be an OL. We may have to look to FA for a pass rusher as I don’t see much for 3-4 guys this year. The good ones (and they’re suspect) will go fast.

A good pass rush will make our DB’s look quite different.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 29, 2011 10:20 AM PST reply actions  

Any UFAs of note?

Bringing in a good-but-older player might be a good plan, let us build a day-2 pass rusher on the bench for a year and then make him compete with a rookie. The good thing about rushers is that you can easily predict who will automatically be good and who will be a crapshoot by looking at competition, production, and a few key measurables, like armspan-to-height. (Larry English could have been a hit, but had a high bust factor because of his short arms: some guys like that do fine, some don’t. That’s why he got so many pressures and so few sacks.)

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

And then there's the injury bug, which is particularly unkind to pass-rushers.

That’s why English is done, not finally coming into his own, and why we don’t have Merriman. That’s also why drafting a comparatively low-risk OL player in the first round might be smarter, leave the pass-rushers for Day 2 and 3.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I definitely agree that we should go defense for at least 3 picks.

This might be a good year to trade down, too. Drop a few spots in the first to pick up an extra third-rounder, perhaps? Then they would be able to get two OLs and two defenders in the first two days….

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 2, 2012 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I like that strategy!

Now we just gotta find the sucker.

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Won't know until pick #17 results come in.

:)

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 3, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

On another note... LeMichael James?

I seen on a couple other blogs and internet postings where people are suggesting we try and get James in the 3rd round. Really? They say to “replace” our loss of sproles? I just don’t see us having the luxury of spending a 3rd rounder on a position/role that to me is a “great to have” just not a necessity at this point in time. Your thoughts?

What about Todman and Brinkley? I haven’t heard ANYTHING about them….. will they ever get their shot? Are they even worthy of a shot?

by MacDeezul on Jan 2, 2012 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

Brinkley played well this year

Great game in our epic loss to KC where PR fumbled the snap on the last play. Brinkley ran the clock out and we blew the game on a botched snap.

Todman is gone. He was signed off the practice squad by Minnesota.

by J Korber on Jan 3, 2012 7:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Our halfback situation is pretty secure.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jan 3, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Unrestricted Free Agents

So from what I can gather our UFAs are (then followed by my thoughts):

54 Stephen Cooper ILB – let go
12 Patrick Crayton WR – let go
58 Na’il Diggs ILB – let go
78 Jared Gaither OT – Resign
71 Antonio Garay NT – Resign
28 Steve Gregory SS – let go
61 Nick Hardwick C – Resign (Please?)
90 Tommie Harris DE – Resign (for depth?)
22 Jacob Hester FB/RB – let go
83 Vincent Jackson WR – Resign (not Franchise, but long term contract?)
81 Randy McMichael TE – Resign (still need younger depth though)
75 Tony Moll G/T – ??? advise your thoughts
63 Scott Mruczkowski C – Resign (especially if no Hardwick, depth)
27 Paul Oliver SS – let go
31 Bob Sanders SS – let go or Resign at league minimum
35 Mike Tolbert RB/FB – Resign (move to FB)

What are your thoughts?

by MacDeezul on Jan 5, 2012 12:19 PM PST reply actions  

I mostly agree, but...

I think Gaither might price himself out of being a backup. Garay probably walks. Hester probably gets re-signed. Hopefully they draft a replacement for McMichael. Mruczkowski is probably gone with Baxter on the team. Tolbert’s going to get overpaid somewhere else.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Jan 8, 2012 10:57 PM PST up reply actions  

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