Chargers Power Play: Philip Rivers' Fumbled Snap
Each week, with the Power Play series, I'm supposed to point out the most powerful and important play of the game for the San Diego Chargers. Obviously, last night, that play was Philip Rivers' fumbling the snap away in the 4th Quarter. We'll get there, but first let's go back a few quarters.
There's five minutes left in the 2nd quarter and the Chargers are driving for points. They're in Kansas City territory and down by 7 points when Ryan Mathews fumbles the ball (his first lost fumble of the season). The Chiefs, never ones to capitalize on an opportunity, ran Thomas Jones twice before Matt Cassel threw a seemingly normal incomplete pass. Norv Turner thought he saw a fumble, challenged the ruling on the field and had it overturned. Chargers ball at almost the exact same spot where Mathews fumbled, the Chiefs' 22 yard line.
So the Mathews fumble becomes meaningless. There's no reason to bitch or complain about it, local sports radio people. When Mathews fumbled, the Chargers were on the 41 and the Chiefs got the ball on their own 25. Three plays later, San Diego had even better field position (with almost four minutes left) and an even better chance to tie.
What happened after that, right before halftime, tells the story of this game and this season for San Diego.
Quarterbacks lose about a yard every time they take a knee. Not that the Chargers should've at this point, but if Rivers had kneeled three times Nick Novak would've had a 42 yard FG attempt ahead of him. Considering Novak made three FGs of 42+ yards in the first half, this seems like it has a good chance of being converted.Instead, after a 5 yard Mathews run, the Chargers shot themselves in the foot with two 10-yard penalties and a 7-yard sack where Mathews ducked his head and missed his block against Derrick Johnson. In two plays, the Chargers lost 27 yards and were out of FG range.
Luckily, Rivers was able to find Vincent Jackson for a 10 yard gain. However, that 40-or-so-yard FG was now a 52 yarder. The longest FG Novak has made this season is 51 yards and this one was not going to break that trend. It sailed wide right for Novak's first missed FG of the year.
An opportunity squandered, not once but twice, by mental mistakes (fumble, penalties, missed block). That's been the bugaboo of this team. So let me ask you, if you were in a situation at the end of the game where you could have Rivers kneel until the clock is down to zero and have Novak kick a reasonable FG....would you do that? Of course you would! You wouldn't want your mental-mistake-prone team to have more chances to make more mental mistakes!
And yet, there were the San Diego Chargers. After Jacob Hester converted a 3rd & 1 into a first down with less than a minute remaining in the game, and the Chiefs without enough timeouts to stop the Bolts from burning the clock down to zero, the Chargers were running. Don't believe me? Look at the video.
The Chargers were on the Chiefs' 15 yard line when Rivers fumbled that snap. Norv Turner could've kneeled twice and given Novak a chance at a 32 yard FG try, and based off how he's performed this season it's silly to think he'd miss it. The game was wrapped up. Every single coach in the world, along with 98% of the people watching on their couches, knows that in that situation you kneel twice and call a timeout with 5 seconds left. Put the game in Novak's hands, or foot.
Rivers fumbling the snap is partially on him, but he shouldn't never been in a position where he was going to be asked to snap the ball, drop back, and then either pass it or hand it off. Also, it's not as if we had LaDainian Tomlinson (who never fumbled the football, it seemed) running out of the backfield. Why was Norv taking necessary risks? Did he need to make a statement and win by 7 instead of 3?
I've always told people that are on the "Fire Norv" bandwagon to give me reasons. I feel like I'm starting to walk towards the bandwagon, and it's because the reasons are piling on top of themselves. Turnovers are getting worse on both sides of the ball. Rivers is getting worse. And silly coaching mistakes like this, things that happen in high school football games but not at the professional level, are not helping his case.
The fumbled snap was the worst play of the game, but it was just another mistake by a mistake-prone team and it was partially caused by their coach putting them in a position to make another mistake when he didn't have to. This team and this coach have done it so often, though, that we've come to expect it.
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What are the chances of that fumble happening at that moment?
Impossible, yet it happened. Don’t think that had anything to do with Norv. That could have happened on a kneel down as well. It was freakish. I still can’t believe it happened!
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
Had they been in kneel formation
a RB could have secured the ball. Thats beside the point though, in a kneel you don’t have to turn your body while backing up nor would you be pulling away from the center as quickly.
Had they been kneeling
Rivers wouldn’t have been moving backwards, and would’ve been more focused on securing the ball than coverages and the like.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Not necessarily
The problem was that the ball hit the back of Phillip’s left hand. He did not have his hands spread wide like he normally does (and like most coaches tell you to do when you are learning to take the snap, at least mine did). Whether he was backing up or not and even in a kneel-down you back up a little (hence the stat that QBs lose about a yard on every kneel-down). So that doesn’t matter at all. He hadn’t even started turning yet, the ball never got there. Also if you look at the video, the ball falls forward, towards the defense, so even in a kneeling formation a RB would not even be close to the ball. The only people that had a chance to recover that ball were offensive lineman and Rivers himself.
My point exactly.
Another interesting thing about the replay is that it looks like Rivers and one of our lineman (can’t see who) have the ball between them, but after the pile up, KC has the ball. And on such a critical play, the officials don’t even try to get in the pile to see who has it when the ball is dead! That ball can change hands several times after the whistle and that crew has made no effort to get down in there. (By the way, that official’s crew had a very bad night, and did neither team any service).
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
Not so fast my friend...
First off regarding the fumble : in a kneel down scenario you secure the ball THEN take a step back, not pull back as the snap occurs as one does on a running play. Secondly, had a RB been in formation for a kneel down he would have fallen on top of Rivers to help him secure the ball NOT an opposing LB who in turn stole the ball from Rivers.
Why try and polish a turd. At the end of the day Norv is still the coach and he still stinks just as he has for the last how many years??
by B.Little on Nov 1, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem to to me was that he was anxious and trying to do things in a rush
If they were to take a knee he would be settled and less anxious
Not a Chargers fan, but a Norv Turner fan per se
I got into a few interesting tiffs with the Norv loyalists last season. Norv has proven my point time and time again by not preparing his team to win. From that first training camp when players raved how easy his camp was and nothing like Schotty’s I knew ya’ll was doomed.
Marty's teams never made stupid mistakes. This is a fact.
Bolts from the Blue // "Go for the throat, Norval." - Jim Rome
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Nov 1, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Marty coached the team up into a winner...
Norv “inherited” a winner. big difference.
Marty never had a team as talented as the Chargers.
Norv, has never been a HC of a team as talented as the Chargers
“BOTH” have produced squat.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
I had an issue with this quote
“Every single coach in the world, along with 98% of the people watching on their couches, knows that in that situation you kneel twice and call a timeout with 5 seconds left.”
I couldn’t disagree more with that. Really, when was the last time you saw a kneel-down followed by a play of any kind. I bet you can’t really bring any to mind, and even if you can there are only a few instances of it.
Really the Chargers just needed to run one non-passing play and let the clock run down to take a timeout at that time. With a run you have the chance to break one and get a touchdown, thus nullifying the need to put it all on your kicker who was signed at the beginning of the year (not to take anything away from Novak, he has done great this year). Not to mention the fact that you will probably bring your team that much closer to the goal posts. It doesn’t matter though, that fumbled snap would have happened in any formation other than Shotgun (or of course kicking formation). Considering that they just needed to take some time off the clock just in case (so the Chiefs didn’t have any chance to bring it back), kicking would not be the logical choice in any situation other than hindsight.
One of the MNF crew said that the Chargers should "center the ball in the middle of the field for the FG"
or something to that effect just before Rivers funbles the snap. (I can’t bring myself to watch it again to get the details right now).
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
That's doesn't explain why they were running right
Especially since Novak was missing to the right.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Happens a lot actually
when a team is trying to milk the clock for a last second FG to win it. Better question, when have you seen a team in a kneel formation fumble a center/qb exchange and lose the ball??
not when the game is tied
most of the games in recent memories that are tied and teams are in field goal range, they run it to the middle of the field, like the chiefs did to win this game, and then kick it.
MIssing SD from PDX
Reminds me of
Norv Turner introducing Philip Rivers in the NFL Top 100 talking about fumbling snaps from center. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoLQndbqrEE
by Falawful on Nov 1, 2011 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
To rub more salt to the wound, Marty Schottenheimer was up in the stands watching the game. Ugh! There was a play where I believe VJack was wide open in the middle but Rivers missed him but threw to someone on the right side and later converted for a FG. Throughout the night I noticed Rivers was looking more to his right receivers than to the left. Gates being double teamed didn’t matter but if Rivers would have turned left, things would have been different.
It does seem that the chances of this fumble occurring at the right, or wrong if you see it that way, moment, is odd. I think perhaps that with a bit more practice and care this entire problem could have been avoided.
Really? You don't think they practice snapping the ball enough. Are you serious?
Bolts from the Blue // "Go for the throat, Norval." - Jim Rome
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Nov 1, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
blame poor coaching
Norv did not cause Rivers to fumble….However, what I think should have occured was a Time Out once Brinkley got the first down. The team had 3 time outs in the remaining min. of the game. I felt that Rivers and the offense had been battling the play clock and loud KC noise the entire game. A time out after that first down in FG range would have given Rivers and the offense time to say to eachother we are going for a hard count to try to draw them offsides to get a free five yards. if that does not work we will run a play to the center of the field.
Finally, is it so bad that we have forgot how to win by taking a snap and kneeling… I believe most of the wins this year has come with the defense on the field in a last min. heroic stop.
Very very very much disagree with you for taking any of the blame away from Rivers on this one
Even if he’s taking a knee he has to take the snap from under center. I know we all like Philip and everything but there is no reason at all to deflect any of the blame here to anyone other than Philip.
had they been kneeling, Rivers wouldn’t have been moving backwards, and would’ve been more focused on securing the ball than coverages and the like
How do you know that the call wasn’t for Philip to get the snap and move two yards to the left to center the ball for the FG kick? And by the way, QB’s move backwards for a step or two when they take a knee too, otherwise they would run into the center. No reason to blame anyone other than Rivers here…
by jkvandal on Nov 1, 2011 7:13 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Norv Said "HE MADE THE CALL" in the press conference!!!!
Norv said he was trying to get the ball to the other hash mark for Novak.
Please. stop making excuses for Norv. i swear as i live and breath will somebody please take some accountability on this team, for screwing up, and stop trying to find a silver lining.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
Rivers fumbled it????
NOOOOO….not him,it couldn’t have been his fault….maybe Haley told NORV to try and run it and he’d give him a five second head start before they rushed….putting Rivers in that precarious position of taking a snap….Oh my bad for being sarcastic, am I not a real Charger fan because I’m pissed off at the mediocrity that has plagued us the most for the last 2 years??? cue the dumbass run moar fire aj’s ego switch to the 4-3 bring loneal back jamal williams for president Norvs lil cock fell OFF replies….NOW
My Uncle once told me, " Feed a fool enough line, and he'll hang himself"...
John, I could never convince you that Norv should be fired, because i needed enough time for the “fool” to hang himself. Not only myself, but many have been on record that " Norv was not the guy for the HC job here." 5 seasons into this we are seeing why.
Eventually everybody shows you who they are, even when you don’t want to see it. Either way, all of this is irrelevant. Regardless of the seasons outcome, you and i both know Norv will be the HC next year.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
I'll take Norv at his word
He was skewered a few weeks ago for calling 3 straight Tolbert rushing plays in the end zone as well as being ultra conservative during the 2nd half of the Tebow game. C-QB fumbles are not exactly planned against because they happen so infrequenty. You can’t plan against something that is a supposed routine play.
Should the Chargers have ran a play with 7 seconds left? Probably.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Chargers favored by 4 so Norv wanted the TD or nothing.
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that."
Bolts from the Blue
by Superduperboltman on Nov 2, 2011 6:46 AM PDT reply actions
That't fair, A HC should want to put the ball in the endzone.
it backfired. time to move on to the next game…
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
I still cannot believe Studebaker ended up with that ball.
On replay, you can see Hardwick and Rivers both on top of the ball (or the spot where the ball is, can’t exactly see it but can tell where it is). Studebaker comes in and jumps on top of Rivers, and somehow the ball made its way up through two Chargers and into his hands.
by Lenny Suckerpunch on Nov 3, 2011 12:30 AM PDT reply actions
We have noodle arms when trying to recover fumbles
And by noodle arms, I mean it’s completely luck.
#feelinacertaintypeofway

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