Oakland Raiders Trade for QB Carson Palmer
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 9:12 AM PDT
in AFC West Updates
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PrintWelcome to what is apparently now your home of Oakland Raiders news, Bolts from the Blue! Forget all that nonsense about Kyle Boller yesterday, he's back to being the backup QB. The new starter for the 2nd place Raiders is Carson Palmer, or at least he'll be the starter as soon as Hue Jackson is comfortable putting Palmer (who threw his last NFL pass in January) into the game.
Jay Glazer was the first to break the story and the compensation, which includes the Raiders sending the Cincinnati Bengals their first-round pick in 2012 along with a conditional pick in 2013 that will be either a first or second-rounder, based on Palmer's performance with Oakland.
Not only does this leave the Raiders with no picks earlier than the 5th round in next year's NFL Draft, but it puts them on the hook for Palmer's contract. He is owed at least $11 million per year for the next four seasons, while Campbell ($4.5 million in 2011) is a free agent after this year. Even if Palmer is an upgrade over Campbell, and he is (although maybe not by much), the Raiders just inherited a QB that is older, worse and higher-paid than Philip Rivers. Sounds like a win for the Charger fans.
After the jump, a quick comparison of Campbell, Palmer and Rivers.
| Record | QB Rating | Sack% | |
| Campbell (2010) | 7-5 | 84.5 | 9.1% |
| Palmer (2010) | 4-12 | 82.4 | 4.2% |
| Rivers (2010) | 9-7 | 101.8 | 6.5% |
I don't know why I included Sack%. It's my new favorite stat. If you don't know what it is, it is the percentage of passing plays in which the QB gets sacked. Obviously, Campbell had a issue with holding onto the ball last year. Palmer is less mobile, but doesn't hold onto the ball too long and doesn't take many sacks.
Take away Palmer's two Pro Bowl seasons (2005, 2006), and his career numbers don't look all that different than Campbell's. They both have losing records over the course of their careers as well. Palmer certainly has the potential to keep the Raiders winning this season, but it seems to me like they've mortgaged their future (draft picks, salary cap, giving up on Campbell) for a QB that's not a huge improvement over the guy that they just lost.
For what it's worth, Raider fans seem pretty split in their reaction to this trade. About half have faith that Hue Jackson is the new Bill Belichick and to trust in everything the Raiders do because of him, while the other half are pretty sure that Oakland just wasted a first and a second round pick on a washed-up QB that has a big contract.
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Interesting development John
Welcome to the party.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
So that makes John the third party guest
after you and me?
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
And three is a crowd
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
That's the Raiders philosophy on draft picks
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Palmer has more upside
if a 31 year old can have upside.
He definitely has shown the ability to be an elite level NFL QB, something that Campbell was never going to show. Palmer’s fall from power coincided with his knee injury, but it is a little hard to believe that he wasn’t able to recover from that injury. I’ve always wondered why he didn’t become the Palmer of old, he seemed to have decent weapons around him… Perhaps a coaching change from a defensive head coach to an offensive head coach will change his fortunes.
Of course, he might just play the eventual role of Orton to Pryor’s Tebow… That will be interesting…
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 18, 2011 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This worries me.
Palmer’s career QB rating vs the Chargers is 128.4
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that."
Bolts from the Blue
by Superduperboltman on Oct 18, 2011 9:25 AM PDT reply actions
First thing that came to mind when I heard the news!
I seem to remember Palmer always playing well against us. But my goodness, what a collossal fail this will be if Palmer doesn’t pan out.
[Comment From Jesse Jesse: ]
Do you imagine a scenario where we could, say, sell Hudson to a Japanese team?
by Natrone Means Business on Oct 18, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Bottom line is that the Raiders needed a QB and of the available QBs out there, Palmer is the best one and has a pretty good performance history against the Chargers.
Big question is indeed the price they spent to get him. Heck, even just a conditional 2nd next year would be considered a high price for Palmer, nevermind throwing in that additional first this year and having to pick up his contract. The contract situation was so bloated in Oakland even before Palmer that they had to give up on Nnamdi, etc.
But yeah, just keep mortgaging that future, baby.
I love my team of historically talented underachievers.
I'd argue that Orton was a better choice
Decent QB that doesn’t screw up your salary cap for years and probably would’ve only taken a 3rd rounder to get.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
But I don’t think the broncos would give him to a divisional opponent
by Ferguson1015 on Oct 18, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
Not like they’re planning on playing him this year or keeping him next year.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
If a team thinks Orton is a starting QB
Then the Broncos will get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him anyway.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
technically
he only screws up the salary cap on a year to year basis. There is no pro-rated bonus to worry about since that is all on the Bengal ledger. The Raiders can cut him after this year and not owe him or the salary cap anything…
The only downside is the 2 first round picks… which is a pretty big downside…
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 18, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
You think the Raiders will win a playoff game?
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
they’re inline for a wildcard spot now, and if they get the right matchup, they could definitely win a playoff game.
Even if they don’t a 1st and 2nd is still a pretty big downside (unless Palmer reverts to 2006 palmer for 5 more years)
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 18, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know
They are going to have to work pretty hard to beat out the 2nd place teams from the AFC North and AFC East
by Ferguson1015 on Oct 18, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Not so sure
Take out the +500 teams and they have 6 easy wins much like our schedule so far. We had better step up our game. And hope Palmer is a rusty INT machine.
Pretty much
2 1st rounders is steap for a Pro Bowl QB. 1 1st and 1 2nd for a washed up QB being paid like a Pro Bowl QB is even worst.
This is all credit card mentality. If they somehow win it all this year, it was worth it. Anything short of that and it is a failure. Next year is going to be even harder, with lack of talent coming in, so I can’t say 3-4 good years of Palmer would equate this out, if the team is going to slide in the process.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 18, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
The sad thing is Cinci would never had let him go for a conditional
They were ready to sit on him forever just to spite him.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
Addendeum
Hue Jackson was the Bengals’ WR Coach when Palmer was actually good, and was the USC Offensive Coordinator during Palmer’s freshman season.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
Yeah, I figured that's why they opted with the princely sum for Palmer.
Vermeil/Green – Coach/Player – “That’s My Guy” Syndrome?
I love my team of historically talented underachievers.
by DoubleViking on Oct 18, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I love "That's My Guy" syndrome
It backfires a lot.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
It also gets you Antonio Garay and Takeo Spikes
An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 18, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Palmer was four years younger then
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
31 isn't that old
he could have 5 really good years left… They can cut him whenever they want without any sort of cap hit.
Outside of the draft pick cost (which is astounding), it’s not that bad of a move…
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 18, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The Raiders don't even have to attend the first two days of the draft
If they do they will be like that sad guy at the prom with no date.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
Someone pointed out somewhere else
That they’ll probably get a 3rd round pick as compensation for losing Asomugha. So there’s that.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Their highest possible pick is a late third round for Nnamdi
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't expect those to be that high
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
zach miller's contract is a 4th i think
Five-year, $34 million contract. The deal contains $17 million guaranteed. Five mil per half guaranteed.
Signed a four-year, $24 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed
Aaron Kampman- netted the pack a 4th comp in 2011
22 million and includes a $6.245 million signing bonus and $10.5 million in total guaranteed money.
Justin Bannan-netted the Ravens a 5th comp
Winning
Yeah, hopin
It bites them in the butt. They really didn’t have much choice. they already used their 2nd,3rd, and 4th picks. And, as someone said Cincy wouldn’t have let him go for less than a first. Curious if he starts this week, or if it will be Boller.
Half saying "Superbowl"
Other half saying “WTF”
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
This is no joke
It’s funny watching it
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Let's hope the WTF people turn out to be right
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
There is no way CP makes the raiders a super bowl team
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I don't mean SB
I mean I hope Palmer is a total fail for them.
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably be just as good as Campbell
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
It's awesome to read this unfold on Silver and Black Pride
Although I’d say a small majority fall into the WTF category, the real gems are Raider fans who think they’re legit SB contenders without Palmer ever playing a snap for them.
by Jobumoplata on Oct 18, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Just browsed over there
The Raiders have an elite WR core? Haven’t heard that one…
QB rating
Bleh.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
Is it?
We really have no idea. QBR has never been explained or justified. QB rating has been explained, but not justified.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
Nothing beats the eye test
I hate scooter pie
by Lmbs2slaghtr on Oct 18, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Everything beats the eye test.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
by Wonko on Oct 18, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So
Use stats with some sort of intrinsic meaning. I personally prefer DVOA or DYAR.
I’m just still bewildered how a stat-hating community like football fans and players can have such a hard on for quarterback rating. If they like the concept of measuring the QB outside of his team so much, why isn’t there more of an effort to find a good way to do it?
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
But, I don't want to get off track
That’s why my original comment was just “Bleh”.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
You passed that street about a mile back
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
I find it to be a good way to determine if a QB avoids mistakes or not. It’s a terrible judge of how valuable a QB is to his team, but the Raiders are not about to get pass-happy.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't get it
Where’s the line between mistake-prone and not mistake-prone? What if they make up for those mistakes with long bomb TD passes and it skews the rating? You’re okay with that?
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
it’s that medium sized grey line there in the middle.
binary minds can’t process it…
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 18, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
My mind
Sees the whole spectrum as a grey line. 101.4 barely means more than 66.6.
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
:-)
Palmer’s DYAR and DVOA beat out campbell by a wide margin. Plus, in my mind, Palmer beats out Campbell in the mythical “eye test.” The eye test is this: Chargers are up by 2 with 2 minutes in the game. Raiders have the ball on their own 20 with 1 TO. Who worries you more at QB: Campbell or Palmer? Personally, I feel pretty comfortable with Campbell back there, I think he either makes a mistake or doesn’t do enough. Palmer I would worry about.
Of course, none of us know if the 2007 Palmer is going to show up in Oakland or if the 2010 Palmer is going to show up, but either one worries me more than Campbell.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 18, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
That may be, but using Football Outsider’s metrics:
Players with seasons better than Palmer in the last five years (by AY/A) include Derek Anderson, Seneca Wallace, Jon Kitna, Matt Cassell, Jeff Garcia, and Trent Edwards
by Ferguson1015 on Oct 18, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
Unless you’re a freak that can regularly throw long bomb TD passes without also throwing bad/stupid passes into coverage.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Oct 18, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
This.
It won’t tell you if you’re getting your PR from TD% and YPA in spite of too many turnovers, or if you’re managing the game and throwing short, accurate stuff. It will tell you if you’re having a good game or not… more or less.
An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 18, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
The AFC West did get a lot more interesting with this move.
"follow @radio2012, trust me, you will find his optimism, innocence, and honesty quite refreshing. as a jaded bastard, i sure do." justdave2103
http://twitter.com/#!/radio2012
by Jonathan Holmes on Oct 18, 2011 11:21 AM PDT reply actions
Given how soft the Raiders' schedule looks
We almost have to win both games against them this year.
by BFDC on Oct 18, 2011 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That's true
And our schedule is brutal from here on out. We’d better step it up.
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
And people were mad
About how it seemed beneficial to the Chargers to lose their final game and finish below the Raiders in the standings…
"second base is the bizness." -jbox
Bolts from the Blue - San Diego Chargers Blog Created By The Fans, For The Fans
by Wonko on Oct 18, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well this sucks...
Palmer seems to do a real good job playing against the Chargers and now we have to see him twice a year. At the same time, it’s a good thing for the Chargers.
I feel this team of ours doesn’t feel all that threaten by our division foes because of the level of competition and just zombies through the season expecting to win it at 9-7. Well, now we have a real legitimate threat with the Raiders. They have a great running game with a good QB to go with it. The Chargers need to make wake up now. Get us a pass rusher and we can offset Palmer. Will it happen?? highly doubt it.
The Rivalry with the Raiders just got a lot more interesting.
The Chargers played tight both times so far...
I feel this team of ours doesn’t feel all that threaten by our division foes
I don’t think you can ever look past a divisional foe. On paper the Chargers should have blown the doors off of the Chiefs and Broncos. Both those games came down to the wire. And the Raiders are kind of doing what the Chargers have the most trouble with: runing the ball AND stopping the run.
PR17 better strap it on for those Raider games!
by Trendsearcher on Oct 18, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
dont know how everyone missed this
2011 raiders have been getting gouged on the run. Mathews has been stellar this season.
"Used to sit 36P until the Chargers started winning. Ill take V seating anyday"
by traceSD on Oct 18, 2011 6:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We have Philip Rivers, is no longer a viable reason the Chargers should win this division.. came to mind
As stated above Palmer has played well against the Chargers, very well. provided this works out for the raiders, they have a good defense despite losing namdi, can play well against the run, and they can run the ball. on anybody. two things the Chargers haven’t done well, stop the run, and run the ball. that was “without Palmer” and they swept the division. hue was apart of that sweep, now he’s the head coach and he’s finally got his guy at QB.
Do i think this is the end for the Chargers in the division? not a chance. because most of the raiders points against the Chargers came on Special teams plays. I don’t think that will favor the raiders this time around. however, the Chargers have played poorly though five games, and it seems to be okay to hang their hat on “A win is a win”. this may not fly if Palmer plays well.
All i will say is the division just got interesting. Because it has Philip Rivers “and” Carson Palmer…twice a year.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
That's all i'm sayin' Foilhat...
Palmer quite possibly, just narrowed the gap between the Raiders and Chargers. And makes winning the division a bit more challenging.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
Raiders have sucked against the run this season actually
Hence the trade for Curry. Their LBs play like DLinemen, but not in a good way…they play slow. Sure they got better with Palmer, but their defense has not been fixed and they can be run on
Huh?
The Raiders have faced three teams that are in the top 8 in rushing, faced the likes of Arian Foster, Green Ellis, Fred Jackson, MaGahee, Shon Greene, and Peyton Hillis wanted no part of them. This is just another uninformed statement, better go back and take a look at it.
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, then you will be fired with enthusiasm. Vince Lombardi
by Bolt Brother on Oct 18, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
This^
i stand by my statement…
i know what an effective run game looks like, and what a run stopping Defense can do as well. the addition of Carson Palmer will only “amplify” this.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
They're actually slightly above average against the run. They suck against the pass, though.
@Bolt Brother: They have played the 22nd, 2nd, 19th, 3rd, 20th and 31st ranked rushing offenses.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Oct 19, 2011 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Muh ha ha ha
Just when you that it couldn’t get any worse then the bengals then bam! Your on the raiders lol!!!!
If it's negative I don't want to hear it eliminating playa haters with their evil spirits!
by Controversysells on Oct 18, 2011 1:57 PM PDT reply actions
They're both 4-2
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Without Palmer
Bengals seem better now, with a rookie qb. Already has as many wins as Palmer all last year. Team problem or qb problem? Glad its the Raiders finding out.
So is Al dead or not?
A rather princely sum for Palmer, IMO.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
Great deal for Cinci right???
they tried to trade him early this season and didn get even a second round draft pick. Now they have Dalton, whos an average QB with a lot of potencial, a great WR on AJ Green and a 1st round pick for next year. Great deal for the Bengals
by claudiotheophilo on Oct 18, 2011 2:18 PM PDT reply actions
Jeepers
How much weight did he lose?
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
Or is that just beard weight?
"The biggest thing..." - Norv Turner
by Cake or Death on Oct 18, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahahaha
he sure looks happy to be there
"I promise you, we’re going to build a dictating, dominating, attacking defense. I’ve said it a million times. It’s not a slight on our offense, but we’re not going to win any world championship until we have that." - A.J. Smith
Hey Carson!
Sell the house in Del Mar and get your ass out of town. Just take “The” 5 north and keep on going.
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, then you will be fired with enthusiasm. Vince Lombardi
by Bolt Brother on Oct 18, 2011 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Bengals fan
As a Bengals fan you guys should thank us for screwing over any hopes of the Raiders improving via draft. lol
I am from Cincy and live in SD
Been following the Bengals a long time. My take on Carson is that he is pretty smart and has a good arm, but he isn’t much of a leader and is kind of fragile at this point. However I do think this situation is a good one for him due to Hue. He has been making mediocre receivers look good for years (Ocho and TJ) and a lot of his pics are due to late game efforts to force the ball in where it shouldn’t go (like tripple coverage).
I think he’ll perform pretty well, but I do think the chargers will hand him his arm on a platter in weeks 10 and 17!
My opinion on Palmer
he is a Troy Aikman-like leader (he’s no Troy Aikman) with some QB skills. He’s quite and confident. He isn’t gonna say much, but what he says he’s going to do, he will do.
He’s scary. At least scarier than Cambell, who beat the Chargers twice last year.
BOOM!
My Take
Put Rivers on those Cincy teams and he does not have the record Palmer does. If Palmer would have played for the Chargers when they were loaded like Rivers he has them in the Super Bowl.
As for making Oakland better? they beat the Chargers twice last year and really punked the Chargers in the last game and that was without a QB. The Raiders had Cincy rework Palmers contract prior to the trade in Oaklands favor. Palmer should steer the Raiders for the next 4 or 5 years. The Chargers could not get it done when all the teams in the AFC West were the worst in the NFL. With the Chargers in decline, forget the record they played nobody to date, with the Raiders ton of young talent, O Line, running game and now soon to be the best QB in the AFC West the Chargers are finished.
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