Spanos: It's on VJ and McNeill

This shows you the difference between myself and Acee. I start hearing whispers about Dean Spanos being more involved in the Vincent Jackson/Marcus McNeill situation than fans realize, and KA is already interviewing the man and getting straight answers.

There's not a ton revealed here, but if you read in-between the lines you should realize that AJ Smith's "ego" wasn't the only driving force in VJax and MM not being on the team.

over 1 year ago John Gennaro 33 comments 0 recs |

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Good for him

I applaud him making those statements. Sounds like he does care but is not willing to give away the farm.

by Schwing on Sep 9, 2010 12:59 PM PDT reply actions

Yep from the Chargers' perspective ...

These situations seem almost completely dictated by the terms of the CBA, not much latitude to do anything else.

The team put the maximum compensatory pick (1st and 3rd) on each.
Which allowed the team to offer the maximum tender.
The players did not sign by the deadline which reduces the tender to the level it is at now.

By not signing, V-Jax and MM have only hurt themselves (and V-Jax’s bagmen). If they had signed, they could have been negotiating (better deal, trade) all along.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 9, 2010 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Not much latitude to do anything else?

Couldn’t disagree more. They could have:
1. Negotiated in good faith prior to offering the tenders
2. Not reduced the tender offer
3. Started negotiations at any point after the tenders were given
4. Not put the roster exemption on them.

You state that because they didn’t sign at the deadline, the tender was reduced. This was not mandatory. The team had the option of reduding the tender at a certain date, and they chose to do so. No one’s hand was forced.

For a team that is interested in producing good will (and a champtionship team) in order to try to get the groundswell for a new stadium, I can’t see why they won’t at least negotiate with these players, who they know will make the team better. Maybe there’s a reason why 11,000 tickets are still available for the home opener.

And the whole, “sign and see what happens” thing that Spanos is spewing is almost comical. I first read this on the Chargers message board, but I won’t hesitate to repeat it here: “We’ll see” is something you tell your kids when they ask if they can have ice cream. It’s not how you negotiate with grown men. The Chargers have not even opened the doors for negotiation with these two, and to tell them to sign a tender that will be a paycut (110% of 2009 minus 3/16 due to the roster exemption is a cut) is absolutely ridiculous. There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that if they sign the tenders that they’ll re-negotiate for a long-term contract. In fact, everything I’ve read indicates that they won’t negotiate anything long-term until 2011 (if there’s even a season).

This reply is not to indicate that I’m an AJ hater or don’t believe in what the FO has done in recent years. But this specific situation is something I wholeheartedly disagree with the Chargers FO on.

by hablodepablo on Sep 9, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I don't know

Antonio Gates signed his tender a few years ago and they worked out a new deal within a few days. Seems like their actions back up that story.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 9, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Some good points

The only thing I will dispute is

and to tell them to sign a tender that will be a paycut (110% of 2009 minus 3/16 due to the roster exemption is a cut)

It would not have been a pay cut. It was more than they were paid last year and had the signed then they would not have incurred the 3 games suspension for being on the roster exempt list since they were only put on that list on Sep. 4, well after the orginal tender price was reduced on June 15.

by riversformvp on Sep 9, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Since you compare this to how you treat your kids.......

Think of it as…

1) Your kid doesn’t come home at his curfew of 10:00pm
2) You call your kid, they answer and you say, “get home by 10:30 and you’re not in trouble.”
3) Your kid says I’m not coming home until you make my curfew 2:00am
4) You say come home and we’ll talk.
5) Your kid says, “screw you, I’m not coming home.”

Yes. I think that is very similar.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Sep 9, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

What?

Parents wouldn’t continue to negotiate under those circumstances? There’s no breathing room for compromise there? I guess that’s why I’m not a parent.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 9, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

I'm just saying that's a descent analogy

and it doesn’t make the parents look like assholes but since the kid is super popular, all his friends think the parents are assholes.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Sep 9, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions

I believe I failed to recognize sarcasm.

my baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Sep 9, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions

COMPROMISE IS NOT A DIRTY WORD

EGO
VINDICTIVENESS

etc. and so forth.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 9, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions

You sir, are a poet.

booty.

by OPIAQ on Sep 9, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions

24-hour mobile locksmith

by Trendsearcher on Sep 9, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Negociate in good faith prior to offering tenders

To me that is your best point. I don’t know the facts, but that would have been really cool if the team could have sorted things out BEFORE placing the tenders. They did it for Rivers. As I recall they had to tender the offers very early in the spring (before the free agency period began). They had a bunch of guys to work things out with in a short period of time. The tight timing might be one reason why the team could not do more in "Good Faith". Truth is 3 million bucks is more money than I will earn in a life time, so for 16 hours of work? To me it is good work if you can get it.

There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that if they sign the tenders that they’ll re-negotiate for a long-term contract.

Performance to a contact is a two way street. Sure the team might go back on its promises to continue negotiating. But the player might also fake an injury and not perform at all. There are all sorts of games played. Its probably fair to assume that both sides play those games.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 9, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions

I love how Acee says he talked about the stadium

but doesnt put it in the article. Real Classy

IMO

by Foilhat on Sep 9, 2010 2:38 PM PDT reply actions

He said he's working on putting that in a later article

Sheesh, tough crowd here.

"Don’t get nervous. Norv is in charge."

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Sep 9, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions

To any who blames AJ Smith, stop being naive

Any person who has worked for rich and successful people will tell you, the guy who signs the checks has the final word. This has been always Dean Spanos’ decision, a GM wants to have the best players he can have, the owner puts a budget, and that is it. They had a plan where they could see a way of keeping all of their players at fraction of their market value, what reasonable businessman would fault them.

Only 3 players have not signed their tenders out all the restricted players, 2 happen to be chargers. You can say they miscalculated, but last I checked they followed the rules, and this is a for profit business.

by TJBOLT on Sep 9, 2010 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs

I wish I could rec this more.

"Don’t get nervous. Norv is in charge."

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Sep 9, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Plus, as we pointed out on the Miles Austin fanshot

most of the guys who signed their tenders ended up with long term deals.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 9, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions

The driving force

will be driving the Chargers north in a few short years.

They’ll continue to put out a “good product”. Just not good enough to win a SB & re-vitalize the fan base. Then …. woe is me …. we have to move where we can access a larger revenue stream in order to keep providing this “good product”. And now, because our fan base won’t pay for a new stadium or buy enough tickets to avoid blackouts, we can leave with little to no culpability.

It’s your fault, you fickle fans.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Sep 10, 2010 8:42 AM PDT reply actions

i would have a hard time calling my favorite team an LA one....

I would hate for that to happen,I don’t even like the lakers. I hate Disney cuz it’s so damn close to LA. I just can’t see or picture a real San Dieagan rooting for a LA Charger team,I don’t. I will always love them but I would be sick to my stomach seeing them move up there.

by Gorditoe1 on Sep 10, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Yep teh LA story makes sense

… and if you look at how much the Chargershave increased salaries over the last ten years, they could make a compeling case. The annual pay out has more than doubled.

I do not know their revenue number, but I would guess that it has not doubled. And actually a thiving business should focus on growing revenue at a faster rate that its costs are increasing.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 10, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions

yup

So either they get a new stadium here in SD (DT preferably) and raise prices on everything,or move to LA and do all the mentioned plus add about 2 mil fans or so. Which means more divedends and more pressure to win a SB. I’d prefer they stay here and do that though,whats 20 more dollars to each ticket,right?

by Gorditoe1 on Sep 10, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Jeez, but don’t the Chargers have a lease with the City of San Diego and its stadium? And we all know that the Chargers’ front office places a premium on honoring commitments. Even when those commitments mean much less money than one could get by leaving.

by furthur56 on Sep 26, 2010 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions

AJ does have an "ego"....

There’s no denying that. How much it affected the negotiations,I’m sure plenty. I think though VJ has greatly underestimated the impact his demands have done to strain the talks as well. We also have to take the MM talks in a different light because he is not an off field distraction to the team. AJ SHOULD HAVE handled him differently. He rewards hard workers and character guys so I definitely think he handled MM situation or came at him and his agents in the wrong way. He has his pros and cons as our GM, and no one can say he is without fault in the dealings with the holdouts. Ultimately we can only hope that we can sign the guys or get some good value for them in a trade.

by Gorditoe1 on Sep 10, 2010 9:15 AM PDT reply actions

I think by now

it should be pretty obvious to everyone.

The team would have been willing to rent these guys for a year & see how they played. Since that wasn’t good enough for the players (and I’m not saying it should be), the team is moving on based upon the feeling that these 2 guys weren’t necessarily in their long-term plans anyway. VJ for the knucklehead factor, Marcus for? you pick it – my feeling is they’re a)somewhat concerned about his spine issues, b) not entirely happy with his run blocking and c) more impressed with some other guys than we realized.

At this point, I couldn’t possibly care less other than to track what we may get for these guys in trade. Otherwise I’ve moved on to pulling for the guys who are on the roster & ready to go on Monday night.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Sep 10, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs

Agreed

by Gorditoe1 on Sep 10, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions

On McNeill, on why not a long term deal

My guess is that the chargers evaluation of McNeill has him closer to being around 12-16 best LT in the NFL, and signing him to long term extension would pay him around the 3-6 best for his position.

Spanos probably asked his guys, how good is the backup who’s making 300 k before I over pay for McNeill, the answer from Norv and AJ, must have been he’s good player, and we still can win with him. Don’t necessarily agree with the view, but I guess that’s the thought process.

by TJBOLT on Sep 10, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm somewhat optimistic about Dombo

I think he’ll help the run game enough to help himself in pass protection.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 10, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions

The truth is we wont know until he plays

He’s played better than i expected, I actually thought Clary has been tackle that has been disappointing.

I do expect some TE help, some chips to assist Dombro in his first road game as the LT.

by TJBOLT on Sep 10, 2010 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions

I might make him a top 10

but just barely, at #10.

I’m not saying that we have an immediate replacement for McNeill at LT. Too soon to tell what Dombo is really going to bring. I believe it’s no stretch of the imagination to say that he’s already better in the run game but will need help with the better pass rushers. Our backfield had better be up to snuff on their reads & blocking.

I DO think that the team realizes just what TJBOLT said above & isn’t willing (rightly so) to break the bank for a guy who likely isn’t our long-term solution at the position.

I just hope PR doesn’t get killed while we’re sorting this shit out.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Sep 11, 2010 3:58 AM PDT up reply actions

I personally have him around 10 myself

I guess run blocking is a big part of the evaluation for the chargers, and McNeill has not been good the last 2 years at it.

We can all guess the chargers methods to protect Dombo & PR, 3 step drops, max protect with multiple TE’s, running the football more; I guess all of the above. I guess we’re all curious to see how much will this offense change to adjust to the new parts.