Hester also to blame for LT's decline?

Maybe not having a good lead blocker lead to Tomlinson getting hit behind the line of scrimmage so often. It was my personal biggest gripe. Hester here talks about not having a very good start to being a fullback, since he was obviously an RB first. But seeing LT average 7 yards per carry with the jets "greatest offensive line in football" and a Fullback as good as LoNeal, I guess the old guy still had it in him. And it makes me angry AJ Smith didn't keep him and let him mentor his biggest fan Ryan Mathews. I fantasize about how awesome it would be to see that happen. Like seeing a #1 tight end prospect get drafted to play with Gates when his final year approaches. Thoughts?

over 1 year ago Superduperboltman 34 comments 0 recs |

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QBs mentor each other

Running backs just take each other’s reps.

LT had a few good carries in the preseason (one for 40 yards) on limited reps, who knows? Perhaps against #2’s. Let’s see how he does in the #2 spot behind Shonn Greene in the regular season. If LT can break an average 5 yards per carry Ryan would be a fool not to ride him.

But I do agree the lack of a power lead blocker had to be a big part of LT’s injuries and his decline. It doesn’t change the facts though: he’s old; not as durable as before; his pass catching dropped off; and his explosion was in decline too.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 7, 2010 4:11 PM PDT reply actions

It was clearly Jacob Hester’s fault that Tomlinson’s balance and speed deteriorated.

Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Sep 7, 2010 4:35 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs

true, both speed and balance were less evident than before, but being hit behind the line of scrimmage more than any other RB in the NFL means someone isn’t opening a hole for you, correct? I’ve watched him in NY playing with the first team against first team defenses and with the exception of a few times when the line missed a block or the FB didn’t get his guy, I don’t think I saw him once get dropped for a loss. I was just trying to point out a different view, because with the O-line finally healthy here, and Hester Improving, I’ve yet to see BamBam get drilled behind the LOS in a preseason game. Against Dallas and New Orleans and Chicago, he almost always had a hole to hit. Last year, and the year before, I found my eyes moving from the backfield, to the LOS, to the 2nd level, back to the LOS only to see a replay of LT getting a handoff and seeing a defender first thing. That rarely happened in 07 and before. And I’m on the bus that thinks he still had a good year in him, and that Smith let him go too soon. His ankle is fine, the O-line is healthy, Hester is better, I would have felt like it was a dream come true to see a backfield of Tomlinson and Mathews.

by Superduperboltman on Sep 7, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Where is this stat

that shows Tomlinson was hit behind the line more than any other back in football?

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
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by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 7, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Really.

Football outsiders had the Chargers with the eleventh-lowest negative play percentage, but by far the lowest percentage of long breaks. LT isn’t what he used to be. We need an RB who can make some of his own action, and Tomlinson can’t do that anymore.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 7, 2010 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

the stat

was From Football outsiders if I’m not mistaken.
I have a good memory for remembering stats like that. I believe NFL network also mentioned it (or espn?)

by Superduperboltman on Sep 8, 2010 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions

I'd love for you to find it.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Here we go.

FO has a stat called “stuffed”, which ranks how often a running back was tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage.

In 2009, Chargers running backs were hit at or before the line of scrimmage 16% of the time, which was 6th best in the NFL.

So as we can see, Tomlinson (and Sproles, and Tolbert), was, in fact, NOT hit behind the line more than any other back. In reality he was among the least stuffed backs in the league. The problem wasn’t the blocking.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Did-the-Jets-improve-with-LaDainian-Tomlinson-?urn=nfl-227867

by Superduperboltman on Sep 8, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions

That article is mostly about their Adjusted Line Yards

and Power stats. When it mentions the stuffed rate, it actually confirms what I just told you, that only the Dolphins and Chargers had FEWER plays that went for no or negative yardage.

As for the Adjusted Line Yards, I’m not a fan of that stat. I don’t think it says what they want it to say. They use it to try and measure the offensive line’s contribution to the running game by weighting gains of certain yards differently. I don’t think it works that well, because I think running plays are a bit too complicated for that—the stat sheet can’t tell if the play failed because the fullback missed a block or if the running back slipped and fell.

The Jets’ 2009 line was probably better than the Chargers’. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. Will it be better this year? Who knows. What that line won’t be able to do is find Tomlinson’s lost speed or balance. Nor will it be able to keep him healthy.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

You'll also notice that the Jets are paying Tomlinson a fraction of what he was due to make here.

It really was not worth it to pay him what he was going to make to be a part time, ineffective running back just to fulfill our dreams of seeing him in a Chargers uniform one last time.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Its the best I could find….
and 5.1 million isn’t significantly less. regardless, you don’t seem to share the same thoughts on LT as I do. As I mentioned, I never wanted him to be in a uniform that wasn’t the lightning bolts. I’m still bitter AJ Smith cut him.

by Superduperboltman on Sep 8, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions

That's $5.2m over 2 years.

He was due something like $20m from the Chargers from 2010-11.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Why are you bitter?

Are you not a fan of a good running game, or a GM that makes decisions based on something other than sentimentality?

Look, we all loved Tomlinson and what he gave the Chargers while he was here. But the fact of the matter is that he is done. The Jets can try to put a polish on him by only giving him straight ahead carries and goal line touches so he racks up the touchdowns, but he just is not a very effective running back anymore. He certainly wasn’t worth the $20m that was owed to him. When it gets to the point that a player’s salary is far out of line with their actual production, the only responsible thing to do is let them go and move on. That’s what the Chargers did.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

where does 20 mil come from? I thought it was 6.1 and 6.2 million after the restructured contract. Either way, I have every right to be bitter as you do to not be bitter or feel how you feel. I think AJ Smith has done just as many good things as he has catastrophic stupidities. Thats me. If you love him, you’re free to feel that way. But I thought he should have been given his decade of service here before evaluating him for release. Its the least you can do for someone like him.

by Superduperboltman on Sep 8, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions

I didn't say you didn't have the right

I asked why.

I’m not sure why we’re obligated to pay him a bunch of money to not produce just because he’s been here a while.

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by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Oops. 6th. Why was I thinking 11th?

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Good memory for stats = Bad memory for sources

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Sep 9, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions

I do agree that Tomlinson may have just had a down year.

Some of that may be the early injuries he’s suffered the past two seasons. But frankly, the guy has gone from one of the toughest halfbacks in history to relatively injury-prone. A lot of it has to do with his inability to take the edge on a sideline run, and thereby get out of bounds or break long TDs, which in turn is how you avoid getting tackled.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 7, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions

That, and he's old with a TON of mileage.

If I can ever find the data (which is surprisingly hard to come by), I’m going to write a post about just how much mileage Tomlinson had before he even got to the NFL. John put me onto this and he’s right—he routinely had games of 30+ carries in college, and multiple games with over 40. He has an incredible amount of wear on his body, more than most backs will ever see.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 7, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions

No doubt, that was one of the toughest men in the history of our species.

At least pound-for-pound.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Which is it?

a dream come true to see a backfield of Tomlinson and Mathews

not having a good lead blocker

Because to me having two solid RBs does little good without a FB. And it would be very difficult to get all three. I’d rather have either LT OR Mathews if we could get the FB. We ended up with JUST Mathews for now – a tragic compromise!

Stats aside it did seem like LT hit a lot of walls at the LOS last year, very few holes.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 7, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions

I didn’t mean both back there together. Though you could do that and run counter plays. And its not like they can’t block, Or try to block for each other.

by Superduperboltman on Sep 8, 2010 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions

In a word

no.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 7, 2010 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

BRING BACK NEAL

BRING BACK MARTY
BRING BACK LT
BRING BACK JAMAL
BRING BACK DONNIE

The only way we’re going to get back to our glory years is by building the exact same team with the exact same players.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Sep 8, 2010 8:24 AM PDT reply actions

I miss Jamal.

Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Sep 8, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Me too

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Sep 8, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions

I miss 2006 Jamal.

He hasn’t been around for a long time.

"Blackened was the Banshee's wail, these boots'll never fill her jail."
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 8, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions

For the record, that’s the Jamal I miss. Not the one who missed all of last season.

Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Sep 8, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions

And let them bring their walkers.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Hester: worst pick in AJ's history

I don’t mind if AJ blows a pick in the draft, every GM does. But to give up 2 additional picks to move up for a fullback? Wow. Some info from that pick:

-Hester was picked #69 in the 3rd round. He is the highest drafted FB since Rob Konrad and Jim Kleinsasser in 1999 when they were taken in the 2nd round. This is the equivalent of taking a kicker in round 5 of a fantasy football draft.

-RBs or FBs taken after Hester: Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice, Peyton Hillis, Justin Forsett. I know we had LT and Sproles at the time, just pointing out that there was some talent taken behind him. I would definitely take Hillis over Hester.

Hester did have an effect on LT’s performance but there were other factors (age, line, playcalling, suckiness). But taking a FB(or slow RB, whatever AJ wanted him for) so high in the draft means he better be something good. Mike Alstott was taken in the 2nd round and proved to be a real good FB even if he was more a RB. LeRon McClain was taken in the 4th round and he’s good also. I know he excels in special teams, but I’m sorry you dont give up 2 picks for a special teams guy. He’s good, but he’s no Steve Tasker.

If it wasn’t for Mike Tolbert, which was an unbelievable find by AJ, this might be AJ’s worst pick. I saw that pancake in the Saints game and it was impressive. 3 years for his first pancake as a starting FB is something I just wished happened earlier.

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Sep 8, 2010 10:55 AM PDT reply actions

Ya just never know

Yes in hindsight ithe deal for Hester was not very good.

But he did a similar thing for Weddle and that worked out.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 8, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

I disagree.

Hester’s upside never met his draft pick. He was a good shot at a special teamer, a fullback who could catch, and maybe a backup/CoP halfback. He actually panned out on most counts, but still only counts as an ordinary hit for the draft value.

Oh, and Hester constitutes a hit. He’s a mediocre blocking fullback, a solid gunner, a good receiving option, and a replacement-level halfback. That’s not going to win any Pro Bowl berths, but it’s not like the guy’s the second coming of Sammy Davis, or even Buster Davis.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 9, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions

He's worth the 3rd

but not the third and two picks.

He really has stepped up his special teams play. Asolutely he’s delivered more value than CBD, so its not like he’s the worst ever. He’s just holding the team back in the lead blocking dept.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 10, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions