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5 Good Things: Chargers at Seahawks

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After a loss it's always difficult to find 5 good things that happened in the game. You want to focus on all the things that went wrong and why the team lost. You want a cry and complain and scream for heads to roll. However, in this game there was a lot that went right in addition to all that went wrong. The good things this team is doing on a weekly basis is getting Chargers fans excited, almost as if we're sitting around saying "Eliminate the mistakes and this team is a juggernaut."

The best thing the team can do is learn from the mistakes, rely on experience and move forward. This is now the third straight year where they're in a bad situation early in the season, but the sooner they can get past this the sooner the entire fanbase can stop worrying about "early season woes" and start watching the Bolts climb the AFC West standings.

Star-divide

1. The one-who's-name-must-not-be-spoken was not missed

Let's look at the San Diego Chargers top receivers in yesterday's game:

Not one of those equals out to an average yards per catch of less than 13.3. That's amazing. Patrick Crayton is obviously getting more involved each week, Buster is getting more confident (and Rivers is getting more confident in him) and Naanee seems to be getting better each week. Mix in the wildcat and a decent running game and this is a nightmare of an offense to prepare for (if they could stop turning the ball over).


2. The running game

Even without Ryan Mathews, and with Mike Tolbert spending half the game looking a little freaked out by his early fumble and his helmet popping off every time he got hit, the running game put up average-to-above-average numbers.


3. Patrick Crayton, punt returner

Comparison stats!

  • Crayton - 2 punt returns, 11.5 yards per return, longest return is 13 yards. 2 fair catches.
  • Darren Sproles - 5 punt returns, 6.6 yards per return, longest return is 13 yards, 3 fair catches.
So we switched to a guy who looks more comfortable fielding punts, he seems to have a better idea of when to fair catch the ball, and we've just about doubled the amount of yards we'll get per return? Be still, my heart.

For those wondering, Sproles career average punt return is 8.4 yards while Crayton's is 9.6.


4. Inside Linebackers

I know I've spent the last two weeks really getting on Stephen Cooper, but I can't say enough about how good the pair of Kevin Burnett and Brandon Siler have been at ILB for the Chargers. Similar to the Donnie Edwards/Randall Godfrey pairing that Chargers fans loved, Burnett is a great all-around LB and Siler bring the pain with big hits, run-stopping ability and the occasional terrifying blitz.

  • Burnett - 5 tackles
  • Siler - 5 tackles, 1 sack (for a Safety)

5. Defensive Secondary

Quentin Jammer still has it, and Antoine Cason is showing everyone he has it too. These guys are good, and Steve Gregory and Eric Weddle do all the right things to make sure the talent and effort on the outside is not wasted. Even Donald Strickland made a couple of big plays in this game, including an almost-INT that would've changed the dynamic of the game completely.

This has been going on for three weeks now. Just another reason this team seems very close to turning it around and being really good.

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The running game did put up some stats on a solid run D

No TD’s but without our #1 back I think we put up the most rushing yards to date against the Seahawks.

Now if we can only get our RB’s to hold on to the ball. I think they should fine ‘em like $1,000 for every fumble and give the money to a charity in the opposition’s town. These drops are spread around, the whole team seems to lack the desire to hold on to the ball.

by Trendsearcher on Sep 27, 2010 9:59 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I wasn't so impressed

with the running game. Truthfully I was hoping we would be find without Matthews but it definately showed that Tolbert wasn’t the answer for the season. Tolbert is good for certain types of runs, as is Sproles, but Matthews is REALLY needed if we are going to have any type of dynamic running game over the course of the season.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

But, we still could do well with Tolbert (non-fumbling version).

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

For a game or three.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

He might be able to make it through a whole season

Maybe.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Offseason

Its hard to believe that the offseason camps did not alert the coaches and staff on the holes in special teams. Moving Siler and Weddle to teams is risking too much.

If I had the coaches ear, I’d suggest a day or more devoted to turnovers(creating and preventing). The Seahawks have instituted a day for this (Turnover Thursdays). It is obvious from last nights efforts that no matter how good your offense and defense, turnovers are THE key. In a way its good we lost. The win over the Jags probably gave us a false sense of security that despite turnovers, our offense will carry us.

Despite the loss, I enjoyed Rivers light up the field with grit in the 2nd half.

by poryan on Sep 27, 2010 10:27 AM PDT reply actions  

ST Practice

Special Teams is notoriously the most difficult thing to practice for. If you go 100%, half your team will be injured after the 3rd day of practice.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Sep 27, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not like they didn't make moves to shore up the special teams.

Remember Donald Butler?

We have a number of inactive and PS players who are really the kind of guy you want playing special teams. Lang, Holt, Ajirotutu… and we have a couple guys we don’t need. There can be no more question about Applewhite vs. Tucker: Applewhite is younger, smarter, more athletic. We have one too many good DLs and could probably trade one for a good gunner-type, though I’d hate to see any given one of them go.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lang and holt

Both played yesterday. Teams still sucked.

by BORTZ on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Then maybe the answer is in trading a DL.

Maybe the answer is in giving those players a little time.

Fast, strong, nimble guys who can’t catch or cover aren’t that hard to find. The best of them get onto NFL programs, because they’re so fast, strong and nimble, but they can’t make it onto the field, and the teams that got so high on them get tired of their inability to translate potential into results.

Those guys end up with no trade value, but teams are afraid to cut them, because they don’t want to look dumb. However, it’s probably easier to pry them loose for players who will clearly get some action. We’re loaded on DLs who can come in and play at a high level within a rotation; we have so many we can’t even activate them all. There’s got to be a fit somewhere.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Tucker didn't play yesterday and neither did English

Acee implied that this would hurt us on special teams.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Prophetic.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was indeed

I was the anti-prophet. I said I questioned Acee’s assertion.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

English is quietly a very good STer.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Sep 27, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Apparently.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tucker didn't even travel

for “personal reasons”… not sure what that means.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Sep 27, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want more on Cason

I think he was only tested like 3 times all game, and only gave up one catch. Am I wrong? Can someone get more info??
Who said Jammer has no ball skills??? He breaks them out whenever he’s criticized. Lets keep it rolling. Jammer, you couldn’t catch a cold if you jogged in a snowstorm. You couldn’t catch an std if you spent a week with snooki. you couldn’t… wait, that last one was rough…

Need a hand? Call for help! Superduperboltman is here!

by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 11:06 AM PDT reply actions  

His history shows that he doesn't have good hands.

He’ll still get a few picks though. If he had better hands he’d get more.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay. He's still a top-ten CB. And has been since '07, at least.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

NO!

He is not and you better take that back! He is a number 2 corner on most other teams – or a very good safety.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I won't claim I can name off more than 10 corners that are better

But, there are a lot of teams whose top corners couldn’t be starters on the Chargers.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's 5 reall quick

Nnamdi Asomugha, Raiders
Champ Bailey, Broncos
Asante Samuel, Eagles
Darrelle Revis, Jets
Cortland Finnegan, Titans

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bailey may once have been better

but he isn’t anymore. I don’t think Finnegan is better than Jammer. Samuel might be, but that’s largely because he comes down with the interceptions. I’m not sure he’s a better cover corner than Jammer.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Finnegan and Bailey (when healthy) are both easily better than Jammer.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Finnegan, really?

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Why not?

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

Great player.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Sep 27, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jammer has been one of the best run stopping corners for a long time

Once he got over the plethora of PI penalties that plagued his early career, he really has become quite a dominant CB.

by riversformvp on Sep 27, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree

a great run stopper and tackler, but the primary purpose of drafting a corner is not to stop the run…. it is to stop the pass. this is a pass happy league now so you better be able to defend against it. And if your front 7 can’t do anything about it you better your sweet little * that your DBs better be able to

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, he was drafted 10 years ago

He has always been good in coverage, I don’t know why he’s getting ragged on so hard after having what appeared to be a very good game.

by riversformvp on Sep 27, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's another great point

he has had a favorable history concerning injuries. but just because you are on the field everygame doesn’t mean you are great… it just means they haven’t been able to find anyone to replace you…. they thought they did when they got crommartie and cason… crommartie was going to take the #1 spot, cason (or someother draftee) the #2 spot and move Jammer back to Safety. They just haven’t drafted well enough for that position. After Jammer leaves who is going to be our #2 CB? Cason is proving that he might be a legitimate #1 but who is our nickel back again?

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

If history has shown us anything

A.J. will draft a CB in the first round a year or two before he needs one.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

but we have been needing another one

for the last 5! We can’t wait until Jammer joins ARPA to find his replacement

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's absurd.

Patently and ridiculously absurd.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

I don’t know if its that far-fetched. who played corner before Cro? and Crow has been in for 3/4 years now?

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Drayton Florence was the corner before Cro.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that you don't know that

Makes me no longer want to give a lot of credibility to your arguments (since this is all mostly opinion based anyway).

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's fine.

history isn’t applicable to this discussion anyways.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh yeah good ol'

flow they replaced him with crow and now we don’t have either no mo

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Drayton FLorence was benched for Cro

because he had an 85% catch rate allowed. Florence sucked in coverage. Strange that last year he was one of the best with like 45% alowed

Need a hand? Call for help! Superduperboltman is here!

by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

I remember when Jammer was the most criticized and scorned person on the team. He just stopped penalizing and became one of the most beloved. I’m not complaining about him being our number 1. Underrated for sure.

by zelkolnikov on Sep 27, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is absurd

Everyone knows it’s AARP, not ARPA.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Sep 27, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I said it was absurd, didn't I?

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's nothing I've seen or heard

That would make me believe that Davis is any better. Any corner that doesn’t have at least 3 years in the league probably isn’t that great. They may have extra hype as first round pick, but they still have so much to learn about the NFL. Revis being the exception.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's the real deal

complete corner that does it all. 2nd year in the league yes so he is young but he has the performance to back it up too

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not a full decade.

his first 3 years he was rough. We all probably hated him. He’s turned around and we all love him now.

Need a hand? Call for help! Superduperboltman is here!

by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

don't get me wrong

I like jammer. Liked him at Texas too. But truthfully he is not top 10 when it comes to being a corner in this league.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt you'll find many agreeing with you here

We’ve just seen him underrated for so long and were Homers when it comes to Jammer for sure. But superduperboltman is right, the first years were bad as I mentioned above.

by zelkolnikov on Sep 27, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with you on 2.5.

Asomugha, Revis: Yeah.
Bailey, Samuel: At their peak. But they’re on their way down, and Jammer is not.
Finnegan: Arguable.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Career Stats: Finnegan vs Jammer

Finnegan: 5 Years, 64 games
Solo tackles: 260
Sacks: 4
Ints: 11
FFum: 2
DefTD: 3
PassDef: 49

Jammer: 9 Years, 128 Games
Solo Tackles: 485
Sacks: 0
Interceptions: 17
Touchdowns: 0
Forced Fumbles: 5
Passes Defended: 112

Edge (IMHO): Courtland Finnegan

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

On those numbers

I would give the edge to Jammer. They don’t blitz Jammer, he’s the guy they put on an island where there is a corner blitz. He’s not going to get sacks. In less than twice the time in the league, Jammer has more than double the number of passes defended. To me, that makes a better corner. Finnegan’s game is based on being a punk and playing as far past the whistle as he can get away with. Jammer is more consistent in coverage. I’ve seen far too many games where Finnegan gets torched. Take a look at the Chargers game on Christmas for a nice case study in how inconsistent he can be.

by SDreal on Sep 27, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can't begin to measure CBs on numbers like that

At least use some PBP statistics like Football Outsiders has, but even those aren’t conclusive. This is just the lazy man’s way of trying to prove a point.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's more

Charles Woodson, Packers
Antoine Winfield, Vikings
Nate Clements, 49ers
Sheldon Brown, Eagles
Terence Newman, Cowboys
Al Harris, Packers
Leon Hall, Bengals
Rashean Mathis, Jacksonville
even… PacMan Jones, Bengals

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can take Clements, Brown, Jones and Harris off of that list

All had their day, but aren’t at that level anymore. I’d also question Mathis’ effectiveness these days. He used to get picks for big plays, which made him useful but his coverage skills aren’t that good and he doesn’t get those picks anymore.

I’d put Jonathan Joseph, Cincinnati, on the list as one replacement. Dunta Robinson probably belongs as well when he’s healthy.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with J. Joseph

You may also be write on Brown, Jones and Harris but Mathis is better. The problem with Mathis is they have so many other glaring issues on that defense that he simply can’t play his position anymore. What about D’angelo Hall?

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

D'Angelo Hall is one of the worst corners in the league.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

The young kid in Baltimore, D. Webb?

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is he supposed to be good?

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Started out as a returner then took the starting CB job. Got’s speed and ball skills. Not experienced as Jammer though… might be a toss up…. I lost my faith in Jammer years ago… sorry

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

You've gone the opposite of most people on Jammer

Many bitched about him for years. But, he’s been so solid over the last half decade I doubt know what your gripe against him could be.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

doubt = don't

for some reason.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Apparently just about every other starting corner in the league

is better than Jammer.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doesn't make sense to me

But Jammer apparently gave MacDeezul a wedgie once or something.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not true

But he is not top 10 in the league. He is somewhere between 10 and 15 I think as a #1 corner, and that means he can be beat fairly consistently by the leagues #1 WRs who he will be matched up against.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well Jammer doesn't get beat fairly consistently by the best WRs in the league

And I won’t back off of that until you have evidence to prove otherwise. He so rarely gets beat that saying “fairly consistently” sounds pretty off base. I won’t back down from that.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you mean "beat fairly consistently" by Randy Moss

You’re sadly mistaken. Jammer whooped Moss’s behind in ’07. Yes, Matt Cassell was throwing the ball, but Moss was piggy and Jammer was blanket.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

2008

Jammer held Moss to 3 catches, no TDs, 36 yards. In the 2007 championship game, Jammer held Moss to ONE catch for 12 yards.

Need a hand? Call for help! Superduperboltman is here!

by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Same thing when Moss was on the Raiders.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

moss held moss

in check when he was on the raiders

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

He got yards somehow.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

in Oakland

he had joe the handy man as a quarterback

but he had 60 and 42 catches his two years in oakland. Both are his career lows even when he was playing in the not very good AFC West division.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

didnt Jammer knock Moss out

 for a few games in that season opener against the raiders. and his career in oakland was never the same till he left

04? 05? i forget the year

"i'm not inclined to resign to maturity"...PSYCH theme

by $#%@ eli and his daddy on Sep 27, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

That actually might have been Florence

But it could have been Jammer.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks. '08.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Samuel over his career is kind of like a more studly Jammer

In that they’ve both had a lot of up-years. But most of Samuel’s up-years were way back when.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Sheldon Brown is better.

Nor Newman, Harris, Hall, Mathis, or Jones.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Newman is probably pretty close

Most of Newman’s shortcomings are almost all a direct result of absolutely terrible safety play in Dallas over the last, idk, decade or so.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a fan of Newman.

But if you made a list of the 100 least recognized players over the last ten years, not putting Jammer in the top twenty would be a hilarious irony.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you're talking about a current player's best year, you're totally right. Jammer is maybe top-50.

But if you’re talking about where the guy is right now in relation to all the guys around him, half the names on that list are not as good as the steady Jammer at any given time. I undoubtedly agree with you about Woodson, Winfield, Newman and Mathis. The rest, none are clearly better now, and I suspect if you looked back year-for-year since ‘07, you’d see Jammer mostly holding his own (or to what extent he’s not, playing the lone bright spot in the back eight in ’08).

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

That,

or being on a team with only one playoff season his first 5 years

Need a hand? Call for help! Superduperboltman is here!

by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

9 seasons

17 picks – 1.something career average
60 some tackles a year
no sacks
5 total forced fumbles
….
….
means he doesn’t make a lot of game changing plays…. so it is going to be hard to really examine him without going into every game and seeing his performance against the receiver’s he is matched up against.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

what are the official stats for Passes defensed?

and the biggest thing is TD’s allowed, 1st down catches allowed, and missed tackles. THAT’s what really makes a cornerback.

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by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Passes Defended 112

over 9 years thats about 12.something a year, so less than 1 a game in a 17 game schedule. But you are right about the other stats, not sure how to get down to that level of granularity.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just an FYI

Every stadium record keeper measures PDs differently. I remember Football Outsiders looking at the PDs from Philadelphia, for example, and they were ridiculously higher than other places. They would count balls that went over players’ heads as PDs.

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by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I didn't know that.

it would seem there would be some standard for numbers that are officially recorded.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

They aren't official

There’s your mistake.

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by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

hmmmmmm

I dont make up statistics. I merely point them out. I’m pretty sure anyone could find them as well as I.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't say you made up statistics

I’m just pointing out that assuming those statistics were official was a mistake. They are not. The NFL isn’t like MLB, they don’t sanction every statistic. I don’t think they even sanction tackles as an official statistic (and if they do now, it was only recently).

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Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

16 games a year.

Do you watch football?

Blake Griffin.

by losbolts on Sep 27, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

16 games

17 weeks.. this dude has similar stats on some game days as he does on bye weeks too… so 17 is appropriate.

by MacDeezul on Sep 28, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm real interested to see how our DVOA shakes out.

The special teams, obviously, will continue to come in last. The defense should continue to look good. What I’m most curious about is the offense. They were pretty bad in the first half, them tore up and down the field in the second half. They should get a good amount of credit for that TD and 2-pointer, but lose it for not being able to punch it in at the end of the game.

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by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 11:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Our defensive DVOA should be a record outlier bad.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I assume you mean special teams.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Sep 27, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes. Sorry.

Our defensive VOA should be very, very good.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt that

Remember all those 3rd down conversions we gave up? That’s not going to look good. I say we’ll be close to average. Maybe even below average.

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by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Matt Hasselbeck has been bizarrely good on 3rd down.

He has a 105 QB rating or something so far on 3rd down, which is a stark contrast from how terrible he does on 1st and 2nd.

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by Fearless Frog on Sep 27, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

As for traditional stats
SDchargersdude Two stats to express San Diego’s agonizing 1-2 start and STs play: The #Chargers are No. 1 in total offense and No. 4 in total defense.
8 minutes ago reply

I’m going to guess DVOA will have us somewhere like Offense No. 5 Defense No. 6-7.

by Natrone Bomb on Sep 27, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ouch.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the pass defense on the back end is excellent.

The rush is as good as Merriman, which is to say it will be deficient until he gets back into football shape or until we draft his replacement by packaging picks and moving up in the first round next year.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 11:37 AM PDT reply actions  

I disagree

we have two #2 cornerbacks and two strong/run support safeties. Neither safety will be good in coverage against the upper echelon TEs in the league (and there seems to be a lot of them) and neither are going to be able those true slot receivers. If our front 7 doesn’t make it to the QB in order to force a mistake or early throw we will continue to give up 3rd plays like we have this whole decade.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

In 2006

3rd and long was an automatic punt.

by SDreal on Sep 27, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is on the pass rush.

The secondary makes the difference on YPA, but if you want to win the big plays you need a killer rush artist.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

The loss of Tim Dobbins on ST has been huge as well

by rostla on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's an attitude issue.

Crayton’s comments make this the likely culprit. If the coaches agree, expect a personnel move. It may be a quiet one, such as taking a starter off ST, or deactivating a player in favor of another, or a noisy one, like cutting a player. I don’t know that it has to be dramatic; the first quarter of the season shows us a disproportionate sample of speedy returners, and two of those three return TDs were pretty darn unlikely (the last one was Keystone Kops). But it’s obvious there’s something wrong, and if it’s an attitude problem it’s time for a removal for ST/benching/cut.

One other place to look, at the same time, is changes to the game, but those changes should have made coverage easier, right? Were large sleds bad tactics on top of being dangerous? Maybe, and if so, perhaps there’s a touch of rethinking required. I certainly don’t know the subject well enough to make any recommendations. Besides, this is an offseason task, and involves personnel moves that are easier to make in February. Perhaps some intensive film study is warranted, but I think that’s obvious. What teams’ ST offenses have improved over the next few years? What are they doing differently? What teams really liked 4-man sleds, but have adjusted well? How did they change it up?

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Sep 27, 2010 12:54 PM PDT reply actions  

you make some great points!

but does this mean that our special teams play is goint to suck all year? does this mean we can look forward to loosing another playoff game due to a special teams mistake or ineptness?

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 12:58 PM PDT reply actions  

If our special teams sucks this bad all year

Playoff games will not be part of the equation.

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Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Going back to my Cason Comment...

Top Corners in the NFL:
Darrelle Revis
Nnamdi Asomugha
Champ Bailey
Leon Hall
Charles Woodson
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Mike Jenkins

Asante Samuel is NOT better than Jammer. He gets INT’s but allows lots of TD’s and catches. Jammer is better overall. Cortland Finnegan is above average but overrated still. Since 2006, Jammer has allowed only 8 TD’s. Antoine Winfield and Nate Clements, were above average 3 years ago. Now, they’re overrated and respected because of their names.

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by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Cason and Jammer

Are an excellent duo, and Cason has been pro bowl worthy thus far, but still has to prove himself for the whole season. Champ Bailey still is a top corner.

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by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suppose I have a bad reference point

I’m used to seeing Gates and our receivers torch Bailey so I just don’t think he has it anymore.

by SDreal on Sep 27, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chargers are the exception against Bailey

Not the rule. Every other team gets owned by him. When healthy.

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Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

He did do a good job

against Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne this weekend.

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually

The Colts attack the Broncos horizontally for the most part. They try to negate the effects the Broncos corners have by doing this. NFL Matchup did a good piece showing how they take Bailey out of the play.

Also, Bailey would be covering Collie for the most part since I believe Bailey almost always lines up to the right of the QB and Wayne almost always lines up to the left of the QB.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Asante versus Jammer's career

Asante: 8 Years, 109 games
Solo Tackles: 293
Interceptions: 36
Touchdowns: 4
Forced Fumbles: 5
Passes Defended: 122

Jammer: 9 Years, 128 Games
Solo Tackles: 485
Interceptions: 17
Touchdowns: 0
Forced Fumbles: 5
Passes Defended: 112

Edge (IMHO): Asante Samules. His stats are more what I need from my corner. Granted there is a huge disparity in solo tackles but I don’t draft a corner to tackle moreso than I draft him to make plays in the passing game. Not saying tackling is not important Andrea Cromartie!

by MacDeezul on Sep 27, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would argue that Samuels' high INT totals are a benefactor of a good pass rush...

…while the Chargers “good” pass rush (when they had one) was a benefactor of good coverage.

by Andy (allfield) on Sep 27, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

they go hand in hand. Any QB can have a 110 QB rating against the Steelers or Vi

 Any QB can have a perfect QB rating against the Steelers or Vikings if they get 5 seconds of pocket time.

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by Superduperboltman on Sep 27, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would argue they are also better because he's a gambler

He’s not afraid to get beat going for the pick. Jammer doesn’t do that. He’d rather stop a pass from being caught or getting YAC than go for the pick. Different styles. Chargers defensive philosophy is avoid giving up big plays like the plague.

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Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Sep 27, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the site is having some technical problems

I clicked on a post about 5 good things the Chargers did vs the Seahawks and started to read the thread, then somehow I was redirected to a fan post thread comparing every CB in the league to Jammer.
John please check into this glitch. Thanks

by JeromeB on Sep 27, 2010 3:10 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Do not adjust your television

Errr…computer screen.

That is what this thread has become.

6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.

That was fast.

by SD FTW on Sep 27, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

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