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"One of these teams is not like the others..." and other myths

I've read in many places fans complaining that the Chargers are the only team that can't sign their RFA's, or that other teams are able to offer long term contracts, the Chargers should be able to as well.

This post will show you the way around the RFA dilemma here in San Diego. First, I will show you that the Chargers aren't the only ones with some of their RFA's holding out. Second, I will show you that the signing of the RFA tender offer is no longer in the Chargers court. Third, I will show you after the jump what our RFA's have done wrong in the grand scheme of things if they REALLY want to have a long term deal here in San Diego.

Star-divide

The Chargers aren't the only team without RFA's signed:

  • Up until yesterday, Green Bay DB Atari Bigby hadn't signed.
  • RB Ronnie Brown has not signed his RFA tender in Miami.
  • New England OG Logan Mankins hasn't signed his tender and is threatening to hold out.
  • Buccaneers LT Donald Penn has not signed his tender and isn't expected to report to camp.
  • Washington CB Carlos Rogers has yet to sign his tender

That makes at least 5, I'm sure there are more, that was just a cursory glance at a Free Agency list. All of the above are also notable players that fill key roles in their teams.

However, you are right in assuming that the majority of teams have their RFA's signed under their tenders...because the players signed their tender. There are two steps to the tender offer:

  1. The team notifies the league and the player of which type of tender they are placing on the player
  2. The player can sign that tender

Many other teams offered the tender, and immediately or eventually the player agreed to the tender and signed it. In San Diego, the team offered the tender, the players rejected it. There is no difference (publicly at least) with the way in which the tender was offered in San Diego versus these other organizations whose players signed.

An interesting question would be, how many of the players that signed the RFA tag on other teams were then given a new contract? Well, let's go down the scout.com Free Agency ranking list and see the status of the top 20 RFA’s:

  • Vincent Jackson: Did not sign RFA tag, has not received a new deal.
  • Miles Austin: Signed RFA tag with the Cowboys, has not signed a new deal.
  • Brandon Marshall: Signed RFA tag with the Broncos, which enabled him to be traded to Miami, where he got a big deal.
  • Owen Daniels: Signed RFA tag with Houston, has not received a new deal.
  • Elvis Dumervil: Signed RFA tag with Broncos, received a contract extension.
  • Demeco Ryans: Signed RFA tag with Houston, received a contract extension.
  • Pierre Thomas: Signed RFA tag with New Orleans, has not received a new deal.
  • Jammal Brown: Signed RFA tag with New Orleans, was then traded to Washington, no new deal.
  • Willie Colon: Signed RFA tag with Pittsburgh, will be sitting out all season with an Achilles injury.
  • Jahri Evans: Signed RFA tag with New Orleans, then signed a new deal.
  • Logan Mankins: Did not sign RFA tag, has not received new deal.
  • Antoine Bethea: Signed RFA tag with Indy, then got a new deal.
  • Barrett Ruud: Signed RFA tag with Tampa Bay, has not received a new deal.
  • LeRon McClain: Signed RFA tag with Baltimore, has not received a new deal.
  • Braylon Edwards: Signed RFA tag with New York, has not received a new deal.
  • Shawne Merriman: Did not sign RFA tag, has not received a new deal.
  • Leon Washington: Signed RFA tag with New York, was traded to Seattle and has not received a new deal.
  • Malcom Floyd: Signed RFA tag with San Diego, has not received a new deal.
  • Harvey Dahl: Signed RFA tag with Atlanta, has not received a new deal.
  • Deuce Lutui: Signed RFA tag with Arizona, has not received a new deal.

That’s just the first page, and you can see where the trend goes the lower you get on that list. 5 of those 20 RFA’s received a new deal, 15 did not. 3 of those 20 did not sign their tender (4 if you include MM), and none of those received a new deal.

I will say that again, 0% of those RFA’s that refused their tender received new deals.

Only 25% of those that signed their RFA tender actually received new deals, and I’m fairly certain that number would drop if I kept going down the list. Based off of these numbers, I feel that I can safely say that not only are the Chargers in the majority within the league with regards to dealing with RFA’s, but very few teams are signing their RFA’s to new deals.

I can already hear the argument: “but VJ and MM deserve to get paid more than the tender offer.”

Well, I’ll counter with these statements:

  • A Pro-Bowl WR with better stats than Jackson last season (81 rec, / 1,320 yds / 11 TDs) seemed to think the RFA tender was pretty fair. He is named Miles Austin.
  • None of the OT’s on the RFA list above have received new deals, yet they seemed to think the tender was fair enough.
  • One wide receiver, one Safety, one Offensive Guard, and two Linebackers received new deals: not many glamour positions.

So looking back at these facts, which argument below do they tend to support?

  1. The Chargers are the only team unable to sign RFA’s
  2. The Chargers are in line with the way that the majority of the teams are handling RFA’s

The fault of the Chargers RFA’s being unsigned lies on the shoulders of those that normally have pads on them: the players. The majority of the league isn’t having the same issues as the Chargers because their players accepted the offers. Why are the Chargers players acting different than other players throughout the league? I can’t answer that one, maybe they are getting back advice from their agent or maybe they aren’t happy with AJ Smith. I can tell you there are several other names on the list above that aren’t happy with their contractual situation, but guess what? They realized that they didn’t have the leverage and that they would never recoup the money if they refused the tender offer.

This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.

4 recs  |  Comment 41 comments |

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Excellent research

Really great points!

And was the tender AJ offered the maximum he was allowed to offer? I thought that by rule he couldn’t go any higher.

by Trendsearcher on Jul 29, 2010 8:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks!

Wanted to make my first post a good one…

And yes, the 1st and 3rd round tender was the highest offer that AJ (and all GM’s for that matter) could put on any player, which also stipulated the amount of money they would be paid over the course of the season, which was just over $3M.

by jkvandal on Jul 29, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

So really to get any better deal

All three guys would have had to sign the tender and then begin negotiations. So by not signing they basically screwed themselves out of the opportunity to even come to the negotiating table.

Stupid is as stupid does. Especially if there is a strike next year.

by Trendsearcher on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bingo..

At least that’s what the trend in the league this year tells me. I’m not saying that the players made a stupid decision, I would hope that they are holding out because they really think it is the right thing to do.

It would have been beneficial, however, for their agent to take a close, hard look at AJ’s past and see how often this sort of move forces AJ into doing something he is reluctant to do. It wouldn’t take much investigating for that agent to see that AJ has a reputation as – to put it bluntly – a stubborn bastard.

They still may have hope for a long term deal, but they certainly aren’t holding all the cards, and they definitely turned down A LOT of money that other players around the league felt was a pretty fair offer…

by jkvandal on Jul 29, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can't possibly type this loud enough

WELCOME TO BFTB

You fit right in.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Jul 29, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, boss.

Even if you are drunk with power…

by jkvandal on Jul 29, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Jul 29, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tusken Raiders killed your mother too?

"Los Angeles is like San Diego’s older, uglier sister that has herpes." -- Justin Halpern

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Jul 29, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Points

I’m glad someone got all this into one spot. Kind of brings the whole situation into context.

I think a lot of people are focusing on SD because we’ve got more guys holding out than any other team. But that’s just the circumstances that our team happens to have this year.

by Jaime Horio on Jul 29, 2010 10:02 AM PDT reply actions  

Thank you!

It’s definitely a perfect storm here in San Diego with our #1 WR and LT holding out in such a successful passing offense, and that may be the reason is that they think it gives them more leverage.

However, if their agent knows what is good for them and truly wants a long term deal, he will look around the league and see that all the RFA’s that received a new contract agreed to the tender offer and signed it BEFORE they received a long term offer. It’s a small step towards showing the team that you are dedicated to achieving the ultimate goal of a Championship. But as AJ says, this is a business and it is their right to hold out if they desire to.

It definitely hurts the team and doesn’t make it any more likely for them to receive a new deal, though, so it’s a strange path that VJ and MM are walking down. I don’t see how they are going to recoup the money that they left on the table if they end up holding out for 10 games.

by jkvandal on Jul 29, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Donald Penn disagrees with you.

Great post with a lot of good info, I really enjoyed it. Each player and his situation is a little unique, but for the most part I agree with you major points. VJ and MM are higher quality players than most on the list, in my mind, but I could be wrong.

by JeromeB on Jul 31, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yup..

NOW you can take Donald Penn off of that list, but does that really set the organization up for success in the future by “caving” to a holdout? And you are telling me that Ronnie Brown isn’t as crucial a part of the Miami Offense as VJ is in SD?

by jkvandal on Jul 31, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do I think that Tampa is set for long term success?

No, but they have plenty of problems.
Am I telling you that Ronnie Brown is more or less crucial than VJ?
No, I was just saying that in my mind VJ and MM are higher quality players than “most” on the list.

Again I loved the post, the info and the effort that went into putting it together. And I look forward to reading many more posts that you put up. I was just pointing out that in my opinion, due to a variety of factors, each players situation is a little unique.

by JeromeB on Jul 31, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

On a side note

I do think that VJ has more value on the open market than Ronnie Brown right now. Brown is on the down side of his career (turns 30 next season, missed 16 games in the last two years due to injury), while VJ is at the peak of his.

by JeromeB on Jul 31, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

very true

on all your points…VJ is certainly set up to receive a bigger contract than Ronnie Brown but I think both are still crucial to their teams. But you are very right that the Chargers have more crucial RFA’s holding out than any other team…let’s hope that gets resolved sooner rather than later, but I’m not holding my breath.

by jkvandal on Jul 31, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

looks like somebody is trying to be a staff writer… well done!

by Its Mikey!! on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Shhhh...

Let’s keep that on the down low…haha

Thanks mikey, I’ve been reading stuff on here for a while so instead of just mooching all the time I felt like maybe it was time to contribute a little.

by jkvandal on Jul 29, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I say you did a pretty good job. Keep it up!

by Its Mikey!! on Jul 29, 2010 10:52 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Unlike in the past, he’s gonna need to impress more than once.

/hard-ass

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Jul 29, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

/drunk with power

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Jul 29, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ha!

Woudn’t have it any other way…

by jkvandal on Jul 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's what Richard is for.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Jul 29, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

From now on these things should be referred to as “Richard work”, even though it’ll probably be Creanium doing it half the time.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Jul 29, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean Charle wo...

Oh, I see what you did there.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Jul 29, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't be surprised if the kegs go missing

"Los Angeles is like San Diego’s older, uglier sister that has herpes." -- Justin Halpern

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Jul 29, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

The DENNIS system never fails.

by Its Mikey!! on Jul 30, 2010 11:04 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Day Man agrees with this statement.

aaaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Jul 30, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Points

Excellent research, great to make people see it’s not AJ who’s playing hard ball.

by Adriel Bergman on Jul 29, 2010 10:45 AM PDT reply actions  

Great job and welcome to BFTB.

I respectfully disagree with the premise of your article. Although Jackson and McNeill will never be able to recoup the money that they’ll miss out on this season, they realize that their next contracts WILL make them one of the highest paid players at their respective positions. If they were to sign the one year tender offers and and suffer a serious injury, they could miss up their market value and their chances of getting those deals. To be honest, Jackson and McNeill are doing what I would do in this situation. I would say “screw the 3 mil” and just look forward to signing that huge contract whether it’s with the Bolts or not.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Jul 30, 2010 9:38 AM PDT reply actions  

You don't think that missing an entire season right before hitting the free agent market

Will hurt their earning power?

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Jul 30, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not in Jackson's case.

And as long as their isn’t something wrong with Mcneill (injury wise) that we’re not privy to, I don’t think taking the year off will hurt Big Mac’s chances of getting a huge deal either. Getting hurt this year, would hurt their earning value the most, I would think.

I mean….Wimbledon.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Jul 30, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

OTOH

If there is not a new CBA put in place and a lock out in 2011, then yeah, Jackson’s earning power would most likely be affected. One year is a long time to take off but two years is an eternity.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Jul 30, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks!

I respect your disagreement and you bring up a great point.

However, Jackson and McNeill are not sitting out the whole season. They will be playing at least 6 games in order to qualify themselves as playing another year in the NFL. So if they turned down the tender and play 6 games at the reduced wages, they will earn somewhere around $200k. I realize 16 games are riskier than 6, but take a look at the risk vs reward that they are taking:
-Had they signed the tender, they would have been guaranteed somewhere around $3.2M for 16 games. Averages out to $200k/game.
-Since they didn’t sign, their offer was reduced, and if they only play the six games they will earn somewhere over $200k (we’ll call it $240k to keep the math easy). Their average is now $40k/game.

They are still taking the risk of getting injured, but at a far lesser monetary amount.

Additionally, if there is a lockout for the 2011 season, their value isn’t exactly going up as they sit out…just saying that they passed up a LOT of money that could have helped them make it through a potential lockout.

by jkvandal on Jul 30, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't be surprised to see these guys sit the entire 2010 season.

There is a good chance a new CBA will be put in place by 2011. If that were to happen Jackson and McNeill would automatically become unrestricted free agents without having to play a down in 2010. If they turn down over 3 mil, I would be surprised to see them risk injury for the reduced tender. My guess is they’ll roll the dice in hopes for the new CBA.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Jul 30, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yikes...

That’s a big risk. The new CBA could say the very same thing that you must accrue 6 seasons to be considered for UFA status, but probably not.

by jkvandal on Jul 30, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's unlikely. Even if it did stay at 6 years

they would just hold out until week 10 of the 2011 season. if AJ didn’t offer them long term deals by then, holding out is the smartest move.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Jul 30, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't forget that the owners have the upper hand in the negotiation

If they do get a CBA in by 2011, it will be on terms favorable to the owners. One of those terms could be extending the free agency requirement.

I think it is highly likely that we will see a lockout and replacements just like the last time. And the outcome will be similar – the players union will concede.

by Trendsearcher on Jul 30, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

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