Where Might Vincent Jackson be Traded?
Kevin Acee, who we kindof love around these parts mostly because he's never been one to make up stories to grab headlines, is reporting that Vincent Jackson is on the trading block and the San Diego Chargers are accepting calls about him.
If you've read BFTB for any amount of time, you probably know that I love envisioning trade scenarios and generally pretending that I'm A.J. Smith ("No, you're out of line!"). This has blown up in my face at a few times, as I've gotten a little carried away (first person to mention the Ted Ginn trade idea gets banned), but below I'm going to try to keep a level head and predict where Vincent Jackson might end up and what the Chargers might get back for him. To help do this, I'm going to stick by a few key rules.
- In-division trades are not an option. Sorry KC, Denver and Oakland. You're gonna have to stick with what you got.
- Trades with "playoff rivals" (Colts, Steelers, Patriots, Jets) should be avoided unless there's no other option.
- Obviously, the team trading for Vincent Jackson will have to be willing to make him the highest paid WR in football and accept the fact that he'll miss the first four games of 2010.
I'm going to start by looking through the teams that had the worst passing games in 2009 to figure out who might be willing to give up a whole lot to get VJ. Lions, Rams, Chiefs, Raiders....the last two are out. I doubt the Rams would trade for a big name WR right now since they have other issues to address. The Lions already have their #1 WR in Calvin Johnson, and it would probably cause some trouble to bring in someone who is making more money and demanding the ball more. Let's dig into this list a little deeper and find out trading candidates:
JAGUARS: Very interesting. Mike Sims-Walker is the #1 now, but would probably be even more effective as a #2. Torry Holt left in the offseason and signed with the Patriots, and his supposed replacement (our old friend, Kassim Osgood) is already starting to worry the coaching staff. Word has it that Kassim, who is a great guy and will out-hustle anyone, has the hands of a man who has eating some delicious movie-theatre popcorn. They're in desperate need for a good WR to put on the other side of Sims-Walker, and Del Rio might be pushing for it as a way to salvage his job and David Garrard's career.
Right now, the Jags #2 receiver is 5'8" Mike Thomas. Sounds like a good slot guy to me.
Verdict: I like it. It gets him far away from San Diego and he can hang with Kassim. Jacksonville, who needs star power more than ever to try to sell tickets, might actually got for it too. I don't know if they'd be willing to part with the asking price (I imagine somewhere around 2 first round picks), but it's something they should maybe think about.
BROWNS: The Browns were the worst passing teams in the league last year. Everything went wrong, from the pass protection to the QB to the WRs. The one bright spot was Mohamed Massaquoi, who looks like a real player. Right now, Massaquoi is listed as the #2 receiver right behind Joshua Cribbs and in front of ex-Jet Chansi Stuckey. Bringing in Jackson would push Cribbs down to the slot receiver spot, where his talents after-the-catch would be better utilized, and would probably push Stuckey off the field. With new QB Jake Delhomme looking for help, and a starting RB of Jerome Harrison (really?), adding another big weapon to the passing game might help.
Verdict: Less likely, but I certainly like the possibility of having some of the Browns' first round picks over the next few years while they continue to try to sort things out. It's something that needs to be explored, but I doubt Mike Holmgren is looking to unload any draft picks right now.
SEAHAWKS: I know the Chargers already said no to them, but that doesn't mean they're done talking. A.J. could just be messing with them. I don't understand Seattle's interest though. They have so much money wrapped up in the position already (see: T.J. Houshmanzadeh, Deion Branch) and not a lot of open spots after drafting Steve Smith's clone in Golden Tate.
Verdict: Highly unlikely, but it doesn't mean Pete Carroll will be giving up any time soon.
BUCCANEERS: I told a lot of people last year that Tampa is a team on the rise. Their young, project QB looks like he's going to have a bright future as Donovan McNabb II and the backfield is full of good RBs (seriously, 3 guys that could start in the NFL). They realized that what they need is a little more balance, and used their 2nd and 4th round picks in the 2010 draft to grab WRs to fill their top 2 spots. Behind them are Reggie Brown, who was always supposed to be good for the Eagles and never was, and Michael Clayton, who has never been very good despite being the 15th overall pick in the 2004 draft.
Bringing in VJ would do a couple of things here. It would obviously take a little off the running game by stretching opposing secondaries deep, but it would also open up holes for TE Kellen Boswell Winslow Jr. the way it did for Antonio Gates. Not to mention, the Bucs would then be less-reliant on their rookies to step up, and could allow those guys to share the #2 and/or #3 spots and learn slowly. In a nutshell, adding Jackson would completely change the dynamic of Tampa's offense.
Verdict: No idea. If I'm Tampa, I pull the trigger on this immediately. If I'm Raheem Morris, who came dangerously close to losing his job in his first season, I'm begging for this. If I'm a Bucs fan, I'm dying for this. None of that means it's actually happening though. And who knows if Tampa would be willing to give up what San Diego is asking, with the holes they have on their rebuilding franchise. If I'm the Chargers though, I look at TB being in a different conference on an opposite coast and not being a contender, and I wonder if there's a better place to send him.
BEARS: Watch out for this one. This was a team that had no 1st or 2nd round draft picks in 2010 and went hard after Brandon Marshall. Johnny Knox is an exciting player, but he's not a #1 WR and Devin Hester is not a #2 (and neither is Earl Bennett). Jay Cutler knows this, the Bears fans know this and the front office in Chicago knows this. If there's a big-time WR on the market, they're going to be looking for him.
Verdict: I think this is very likely, which is funny when you throw in the Cutler thing. I know the Bears are desperate to improve their WRs and have deep pockets to boot. The fact that they don't have to pay a signing bonus to a 1st or 2nd rounder while everyone else does makes them doing a contract with VJ a little bit easier as well. The most enticing part for Bears fans though? Some of those "ducks" that Cutler throws get immediately turned into catches or knock-downs by probably the best jump-ball WR in the league.
REDSKINS: These guys have some deep pockets, my friends, and do not hesitate to make anyone the "highest paid" anything. They are eager to make Donovan McNabb's first year a success, so much so that they've discussed bringing in Terrell Owens, but that might be hard when their top two RBs are Clinton Portis and Larry Johnson, and their top two WRs are Santana Moss and Devin Thomas/Malcolm Kelly. If they could get a guy like Vincent Jackson for McNabb to huck downfield passes to, this could be a somewhat exciting team.
Verdict: Here's an interesting possibility. What about trading VJ for Santana Moss, a 1st round pick and another lower pick (3rd or so)? HEAR ME OUT before you go crazy. First, let's compare their 2009 numbers:
Jackson: 68 catches, 1,167 yards, 9 TDs
Moss: 70 catches, 902 yards, 3 TDs
Is there a drop-off? Of course there is. But number one, Philip Rivers vs. Jason Campbell (and a horrific offensive line, which hurts a small speed guy like Moss the most). And number two, $$$$$.
Acee is reporting, to nobody's surprise, the Jackson is looking for something better than Brandon Marshall's 4-year, $47.5 million dollar deal. Let's imagine he wants 4 years for $50 million, right? That's an average of $12.5 million each of the next four years. Here's what Santana's contract looks like:
2010: $968,500 (+ $3.3315 million "signing" bonus)
2011: $1.192 million
2012: $1.4155 million (voidable by team)
2013: $1.639 million (voidable by team)
So if the Chargers decide to keep Moss for the remainder of his contract, he'd cost $8.5295 million....or roughly $2.1 million per year on average. That's saving some cash.
I'm not trying to argue that Moss is as good or better than Jackson. Far from it. I just think we'd be getting back a #2 or #3 WR (if anyone is worried about WR depth after losing VJ) at 1/6th the cost and that seems like a good deal. This would also allow the Redskins to continue to give on-field time to Kelly and Thomas, who are young but have some potential.
So there you have just a few potential candidates to trade with. There are certainly more (49ers, Panthers, Bengals, etc.) that you could throw out and argue for in the comments below. Have at it.
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79 comments
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Comments
Good article, but, I really would hate to trade VJ.
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The wants....
In that article, it is mention that VJ camp wants a bit more than 47.5 million over 4 years; which makes signing a far less of a priority. Why because other than Larry Fitzgerald, I am just not that into receivers being true game changers. What I mean is changing every game whether they get hot or not, VJ great at stretching the field and blocking; but sometimes I am just happy if he can get to the game un arrested. If Gates wants that kind of money then I would listen. I think Mac gets done soon after Gates; VJ may find himself lower on the totem pole than Shawne.
Don’t get me wrong I like VJ, but his position only holds so much value in this scheme.
Just as long as aj doesn’t settle for anything less than a 1st rounder and something else.
by Its Mikey!! on Jun 29, 2010 4:03 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Well, therein lies the rub...
The Chargers have never been good friends with Old Man Leverage, and this is another case in point. It’s hard for them to go around “demanding” a 1+, unless the word “conditional” is added in big bold letters.
It’s also a sign of VJs psychoses to think he’s worth that money. Off-field issues + 4 game suspension + a snake-bit league determined not to repeat Brandon Marshall’s contract = long uphill climb for VJ to get a contract done.
by Andy (allfield) on Jun 29, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually like the last one with the Skins
Trading a WR for a veteran WR in Santana Moss, plus a 1st round pick? Not a bad deal.
I like Jackson, but i’m not shedding any tears if he leaves. IMO, keeping McNeil should be priority no. 1for AJ, and before the season starts, he’ll give the LT a comfortable pay-raise.
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by Jonathan Holmes on Jun 29, 2010 4:17 PM PDT reply actions
I'd be shocked if the Redskins gave up a 1st round pick
They have too many holes to give that kind of draft pick up.
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 29, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Jackson is basically never going to play for the Chargers again
So anything we get for him at this point is gravy.
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by Wonko on Jun 29, 2010 4:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is kind of disturbing.
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by Zach (maestro876) on Jun 29, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
It's probably true.
Unless Gates’s foot injury is a lot worse than they’re saying.
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by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jun 29, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
sweet
so its basically a lose-lose situation.
Either we keep Jackson because Gates is seriously injured or we lose him because Gates isnt that injured.
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Gatesy is fine.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 29, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I would be happy in many trade scenarios,
All in all, I would be very happy if we were able to fetch at least first round pick for him. Lets hope that the hypothetical trade happens with a team that plays terribly this season!
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He may think he's equal to Brand Marshall
… but I don’t. Maybe their off the field baggage is equal (I think V-Jax is a slightly better citizen)
But I think Marshall is stronger. And when it comes down to a marquee receiver "creating" his own success, I have to believe Marshall can make it happen better than V-Jax can.
Could it be the Saints?
Eh
Jackson and Marshall are both special receivers, but I’d take Jackson over Marshall in the Chargers offense.
They’ve both been starters since 2007 and in that time Jackson has averaged 17 YPC, while Marshall has averaged 12.1.
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by SoCalBoltFan on Jun 29, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess what I'm trying to say is
I would rather have the WR that presents more of a deep threat in the Chargers offense. Marshall is a solid option on short routes and he will do a lot more AFTER THE CATCH then Jackson. But again, that type of receiver doesn’t fit quite as nicely in the Chargers offense as a Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, or Calvin Johnson type of receiver would.
On a side note, I think MIA will be able to utilize Marshalls skills a lot better than the Chargers could anyway. All Miami needed was a dependable WR to compliment that running game. Imagine Ronnie Brown lining up as QB, Ricky Williams to the left. Than Marshall comes in motion from the right side and the ball isn’t snapped until he is in the backfield. Where the hell is the ball going? Is Brown gonna take it up the middle? Hand it off to Williams? Direct snap to Marshall maybe? The possibilities are endless. Just something I though might be interesting to watch this season.
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by SoCalBoltFan on Jun 29, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
we really dont know how VJ is on
the short passes, those have allways been the province of the best tight end in the league. for all we know, he could be a beast on little slants and short passes
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by $#%@ eli and his daddy on Jun 30, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I definitely wasn’t taking anything away from Jackson. I was just saying Marshall is not as much of a deep threat as Jackson. And like you said, Gates is used on a lot of short routes, so IMO, We need a deep threat wide out more than a Brandon Marshall type of receiver in the Chargers offense.
It does seem like Brandon Marshall is at least a little bit more elusive than Jackson though (again not taking anything away from Jackson, that’s more of a compliment to Marshall). That’s why I said he would fit so well in the Dolphin’s offense. Seeing as how they do not have a Philip Rivers at QB I think Marshall’s ability to get YAC will really pay dividends for them.
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Blonde hair?
If that is him does he realize how pathetic he looks? Trade him to the California Penal League!
The guy with the blond hair
no longer plays for the Chargers.
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by Zach (maestro876) on Jun 29, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
That's Kassim Osgood
He was a pretty solid ST gunner, but he wasn’t good enough with the ball to get time on offense. His contract expired, Jacksonville offered him a chance to start, and he went there. But he couldn’t catch there, either, and he got dumped again.
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by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jun 29, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Still on JAX. 3rd WR, I believe.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 29, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Two Malcolm Floyds?
Look at the Chargers roster on SI.com. And they both have #80.
That would solve the problem.
Clone Malcom Floyd
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by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Jun 29, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
since the best for this team is for vincent jackson to leave then I guess
let it be. But I suspect Marcus Mcneil to be signed late. Then I’ll be hopeing we get something gud in return.
Reppin SD (Z-G)
if we trade Jackson and only get picks, this year is written off. We would have a lot of picks next year, but by the time those picks turn into productive players Rivers will be 30. I would trade Jackson straight up right now for Massaquai of the browns. Save money and get a good receiver to help right now and for the next few years
by Bryan619 on Jun 29, 2010 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Another good article John!!!
I have been saying that the Chargers are in re-building mode for awhile now. Finally seems that you and others are understanding that now. Would I have liked to re-sign VJ ? Obvious answer is YES but, we are beyond that now so we have to move on and, make the best deal/trade we can as, most fans are getting impatient with “Super-Bowl Dreams” and want it to finally happen this year.
VJ has done well the last few years but, I can’t get it out of my head yet how he got pulled over on “Play-Off day against the Jets and kicking the flag ordeal and now his holding out nonsense.” “Time to go pal! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out DUMB-ASS!” Almost as dumb as LT proclaiming a Super-Bowl victory by the Jets with-in the next 2 years. (Man how he turned out to be a sour-puss.)
Just my 99.9 acurate opininion……….YO
by iliketowinallthetime on Jun 30, 2010 1:39 AM PDT reply actions
Still not agreeing with them in re-building mode. I am just responding to Acee’s news.
I also just think they’d rather get something for VJ instead of having him sit on the sidelines, creating headlines, and then coming back at the end of the year to possibly screw up the chemistry.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 30, 2010 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions
VJ isn't a top 5 WR
Period. Is he as good as Marshall? That’s debatable – I think VJ adjusts to the deep ball much better, Marshall is stronger & works harder for YAC.
Our offense will initially miss VJ, but I think we CAN work around his loss. More & more I’m beginning to feel that he may well be a lot more trouble than what he’s expecting in compensation. I have a hard time shaking the feeling in any big game that he could do something bone-headed. Add to that his off-field issues & Houston, we may just have a problem here. Let’s remember something else – VJ didn’t make serious strides until Joiner became the WR coach. That’s when he started catching balls with his hands instead of trapping them with his body. That’s when he began to catch balls near the top of his leap instead of jumping only to catch them (or not) around his waist.
Joiner just might have a guy that he can work some magic with. We just don’t know for sure yet.
I am certainly not in the camp that we write this year off if neither VJ nor McNeill come in. That’s just crazy talk – TC hasn’t even begun. I’d take compensation similar to what Miami gave for Marshall & move on. McNeill may still get done, but I believe that VJ is likely a goner.
And not because Acee said it.
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Robert Hunter
Hmmmm
Miami got Marshall for two 2nd round picks. I suppose getting a first may be more difficult than I thought.
Not bashing Buck, but I’d be interested to know who your top 5 WRs are if Jackson’s not one of them.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 30, 2010 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions
My top 5?
Not necessarily in order ….
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Calvin Johnson (he just needs stability – he has the tools+)
Reggie Wayne
Randy Moss
I put VJ in the same grouping as Marshall, Sidney Rice, Greg Jennings, & Roddy White.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
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by Buck Melanoma on Jun 30, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting. Hard to disagree with that, although I’ve never been a huge Wayne fan.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 30, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
My amateur ratings...
1) Larry Fitzgerald: for me the only consistent schemed for game changer
2) Andre Johnson: makes the catches, gets score, gets the chain moved
3) Wes Welker/Reggie Wayne/HInes Ward: today’s version of Charlie Joiner, they move the chains.
4)VJ/Randy Moss/Miles Austin: your home-run hitter group, go for the highlight reel and these three usually succeed.
5) Sidney Rice/Marques Colston/Brandon Marshall: 2 deep threats and 1 over rated/focused on receiver. Marshall can catch 20 balls in a game, but it wasn’t a surprise his side lost.
What a team intent, talent and which scheme it’s running is almost as important to a receiver’s success as the receiver’s personal talent (ask John Jefferson).
I personally would put VJ around 7-10 value slot; great work ethic, nice stretch the field ability, like his blocking technique as well; obviously his off the field behavior is a reflection of immaturity/stupidity.
Since I see wr value as a group a bit more than individually, VJ contract offer from me would probably be in the 7 mil range. He will get more, Miami was more desperate for Marshall than the Chargers are for VJ. I would sign Mac and tag VJ/Merriman (if he bounces back) 2011. However the DUI’s and driving to playoff game would probably lead me to trade him as much as I like his work ethic. His off the field behavior undermines the character of the team which is probably more valuable to me than say Barry Switzer.
No love for Desean Jackson huh?
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by SoCalBoltFan on Jun 30, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
None for either Steve Smith
Or Donald Driver or Greg Jennings or Derrick Mason or Roddy White or Antonio Bryant.
I only quibble because Brandon Marshall is on that list and these guys are all his superiors. I could probably keep going.
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Points..
All of them could be tossed in there, Steve Smith of the Giants had a great year but not much before that. I like Desean on the deep threat; and to be honest I would take Greg Jennings over a couple as well. Really spots 3-15 would fall on your preference and scheme, in my small mind I have Larry and Andre ahead of the rest.
But I would value the whole receiver as a group while VJ is nice receiver but not indispensable……Beside the 2nd dui and driving to playoff game on suspended license…AJ has better humor better than I do; tough spot because we need him for playoff run, but I wouldn’t fork over 9 million for his immaturity
That scenario you have listed for the Redskins might make for some good conversation
But let’s not forget that all the deals are being made by Shanahan now. A 1st, a 2nd or 3rd and Santana Moss for Vincent Jackson? Wow, that is pretty far fetched! If anything, the chargers will almost be giving him away after he holds out. The leverage here does not favor the chargers.
Overall I would be looking at it this way, Shanahan is known for getting the best out of all his trades and Vincent Jackson has leverage over the Chargers. Basic math would suggest that any trade would at least be very fair for each team and the only team possibly getting fleeced would be the Chargers.
Meh
The Redskins need VJ a lot more than the Chargers need to get rid of him.
Still, I’ve rethought this. I’m thinking VJ for Moss and a 3rd would be pretty even.
Oh, and don’t discount AJ’s trade history as well. Rivers/Merriman/Kaeding for Eli.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 30, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
So what you are saying is that wasn't a bad trade for you guys
and I agree, it really wasn’t, but still, who has the super bowl ring?
They probably would've won the SB with Rivers as QB too.
NY’s defense deserves a lot more credit for that SB more than Eli does.
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by SoCalBoltFan on Jun 30, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree 100%
Maybe before the shannahan and allen days in Washington you might’ve been able to pull a 1 and moss away from the skins. But if you think you’re gonna get a 1, 3, and moss for jackson you’re dreaming my friend. Marshall went for 2 2nd rounders and he’s definitely better than jackson at this point in their careers, not to mention the suspension looming over jackson’s head and look what that did to santonio holmes trade value, all the steelers got for him was a 5th from the jets. Then you have to take into the consideration that Jackson is prepared to hold out all year if he has to, which gives the chargers no leverage. It’s kind of similiar to the skins situation with Haynesworth where he’s a good talent when he actually gives effort, and he comes with some off field baggage. And the skins would be lucky to get a 4th or 5th rounder for him at this point, with a relatively cheap contract for him already in place.
Hard to know how much leverage the Chargers have
For all we know, McNeill could be signed, and the CBA might keep the franchise tag provision. All speculation at this point. However, I am curious as to why you say BM is “definitely better than jackson at this point in their careers”. The staff at Football Outsiders would vigorously disagree, I would guess.
This may sound crazy but
What about Dallas? I know the have Miles Austin and Roy Williams but it isn’t exactly a secret that they haven’t been happy with Roy since he got there. I’m sure they could find someone to take RW off their hands. Imagine Jackson, Austin, Witten and Marion Barber. Wow. What makes me think this is possible is the fact that the Supet Bowl is in Dallas and everyone knows Jerry is desperate to make history @ Jerry World this year. Plus he’s so freakin old he might think time is running out for him to win another championship and he might be willing to do something crazy.
"If guys wanna complain about playing here they better check themselves and leave" - Nick Hundley.
by Natrone Bomb on Jun 30, 2010 8:46 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Dallas isn’t an option. Austin (as you noted) is a good WR, and they have a laundry list of guys behind him…
- Roy Williams – Awful disappointment there, and if would beg to differ that the Cowboys could find anyone to take him off their hands if they traded for Jackson. He has a ridiculous contract (6 years, $54M), which basically makes him untradable.
- Dez Bryant – #1 pick this year
- Patrick Crayton – Trying to get traded because they drafted Bryant.
- Sam Hurd – Meh WR, but a really good special teamer.
- Kevin Ogletree – Young WR that they’re very high on, has some nice skills, lock to make the team.
There’s no room for Jackson.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
Agrreed Crayton and Williams are both pretty similar to V-Jax
by Trendsearcher on Jun 30, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I assumed Crayton would be part of the deal
But I posted this on my break at work so I didn’t check the Dallas roster and completely forgot about Dez Bryant.
"If guys wanna complain about playing here they better check themselves and leave" - Nick Hundley.
by Natrone Bomb on Jun 30, 2010 1:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't help Dallas
Not for nuttin’.
Screw those turd-kickers.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
by Buck Melanoma on Jun 30, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Just give the man what he wants..
If A.J is serious about getting San Diego a superbowl (which is starting to look further and further from the truth) then he should stop letting his ego get in the way of team decisions… and this goes for both McNeill and Jackson (and many others in the past)
Yes
If he really wants a SB he should hand out contracts like they’re candy with no concern about having cap flexibility, roster balance, etc. etc. Cause it worked so well for Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder.
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by John Gennaro on Jun 30, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont think you understood me.
im not saying that he should be giving huge contracts to players who havent deserved it, but its McNeill and Jackson were talking about and its pretty obvious they DO deserve these contracts. Theyre two of the top players (and still young) at there respective positions in the NFL so I dont understand why A.J’s trying to create this tension (which quite possibly could lead to the end of both players in SD) between both players and this franchise. Its obvious that Jackson is worth Brandon Marshall-money and McNeill is worth top 10 LT money, and its a pretty sure bet that they will produce.
by jordanmowbray on Jul 1, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
How many big contracts can the Chargers have?
They are paying Rivers – I think that makes sense
They are paying Castillo – maybe no so good
They’ve been renting Sproles.
If they pay MeNeill, V-Jax and Merriman this year. Where does that put the Charges next year? If Mathews is as good as we think he’ll be – he’s gonna want to get paid. If they have six or seven massive contracts, and a host of medium sized contracts, don’t you think that they’d blow the new cap?
Particularly if you are betting that the owners are gonna win the stand-off. If the owners win would you expect downward or even pressure on the cap?
by Trendsearcher on Jul 1, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
how they handled Castillo and Sproles werent the smartest ideas, but...
When was the last time the Chargers had such a dominant and complete receiver (and still young) who was completely in sync with his QB? and personally, I cant see Malcolm Floyd being more then a #2 receiver. Its not like the Chargers have a sure-fire replacement for Jackson, only a questionable (Buster) and a player who’s better suited in the slot (Naanee). I understand that Philip is good enough that he can make any receiver look good but that can only go so far.
Im not gonna argue for McNeill or Merriman because im not too crazy about either, but I think Jackson is an immense talent that cant be replaced.
by jordanmowbray on Jul 1, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Don’t forget Gates and Weddle need to be paid.
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by John Gennaro on Jul 1, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it a sure bet that they'll produce?
I still think that they have concerns about McNeill’s medical history. There’s a possibility they don’t want to sign him long term because they don’t think he’ll be available long term.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I have concerns about MM
Last year MM was just alright to me. Average in rush blocking maybe that was the RB’s fault. Above average (not top 10) in pass blocking.
That’s why I don’t anticipate a massive drop off in loosing MM. I think it a change from Above Averge/Average to maybe Average/Below Averge. I don’t see it as loosing a Pro-bowler for a Ham & Egger.
I’m not saying he’s past it, the long term has to be a question.
by Trendsearcher on Jul 1, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
But, like John says, I’d rather have him than not have him. I just wonder if he’s the best long term answer. For all I know, Dombrowski could be a better LT in the near future.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Ego has little to do with the team's stance.
If we’ve learned anything about AJ Smith’s team building strategy it is never only about the current year. It’s about building a winner this year and next year. And the year after that.
by HuangDi on Jun 30, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and thats worked well so far, right?
If A.J keeps playing this game we will continue to have only above-average teams, year after year… Yes, i understand that we have Philip and that means we will probably be semi-competitive for the next 5 years, but in order to get to that next level WE NEED STABILITY around him.
by jordanmowbray on Jul 1, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Or
If he does hand out a bunch of long term contracts, then we’ll also continue to only have above average teams.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Jul 1, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point, but its not like im saying we should sign players that dont deserve it. Im not gonna argue for Merriman or McNeill because I think theyre replaceable. But with Philip Rivers, Vincent Jackson, Antonio Gates and what we expect from Ryan Mathews we will have a top 10 offense for the next 5 years that can be built around, even without a spectacular o-line. NFL players have a short work span and I just think its smart to lock up your premier guys before theyre time’s up.. especially ones that have a history of showing up in the playoffs.
by jordanmowbray on Jul 1, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Raiders and Chiefs
Isn’t VJ tendered at 1st and 3rd round picks? If the Raiders and Chiefs really wanted him (and the Redskins wouldn’t have to give up Holmes in your proposed deal), couldn’t they just sign VJ, giving up those picks?
They could have
They can’t any more. The draft has passed and so did the time for other teams to submit offer sheets (the deadline was a week before the draft).
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Thanks John for the article.
Hopefully one or more of the NFC teams that you analyzed get involved in serious discussions. Whatever ultimately happens, real options are always a good thing.
shizz
Ive been hearing stuff like jackson working out wit the redskins I hope they get at least santana moss.
Reppin SD (Z-G)
He’s working out with McNabb in AZ. Lots of NFL players do. McNabb has his own little training regimen that a lot of guys like to copy. Means nothing about the Redskins.
Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.
by John Gennaro on Jul 1, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
WR Boltz
If I had my pick, I think it’s more important to the team to sign McNeil over Jackson. Jackson is great, no question, but they still have lot’s of depth in receiving. The line on the other hand needs McNeil. They can get a lot of bang for their buck trading Jackson. With the potential changes looming over the league, A.J. Smith is right. Either he plays or he’s traded, that’s “Play” not “Pay.” He’s arrogant and has issues as well. He doesn’t even have a driver’s license. He’s good but I support A.J. Smith on this. Jackson has to learn he is not THE Chargers, he’s A Charger. His departure will have little effect on their season with Nannee, Floyd, Gates and others.
Lynch
Am i missing something?
isn’t the world set on Supply and Demand – as in WANT & NEED?
what do we NEED – veteran running back
what do we have – an amazing deep threat
did anyone ever look at the fact that Marshawn Lynch is getting pushed away by the Bills. This year, he was getting most of his carries taken away from Fred Jackson, and with the draft of CJ Spiller, there’s not enough carries to go around. We need a guy who can give veteran leadership and solid carries over an unproven Matthews, and with Sproles not able to carry every down
so is Vincent Jackson for Marshawn Lynch not even a possibility?
Are you insane?
I know AJ Smith is a master when it comes to leverage but to even think that a 1st, 3rd (a pick which is already promised to the Saints or Eagles next year), and Santana Moss is a reasonable offer, well safe to say I want what you’re on. My favorite part was this:
“Here’s an interesting possibility. What about trading VJ for Santana Moss, a 1st round pick and another lower pick (3rd or so)? HEAR ME OUT before you go crazy. First, let’s compare their 2009 numbers:”
You make it sound like you’re getting the short end of the stick. “OH MAN THAT’S ALL WE GET? TWO HIGH DRAFT PICKS AND A TOP 30 RECIEVER? Man we’re getting Screwed.” It reminds me of the car salesman that overcharges for features but tells the customer about how he can’t believe how he’s getting fleeced.
So let’s review.
-The Redskins aren’t as strong as they’d like to be at receiver. They’re good enough because of their QB but at the same time they would love to have a guy like Jackson.
-We are already missing a 3rd and 4th round pick in next years draft. Even though they did get great players for those picks (McNabb and Jamaal Brown) it’s safe to say that the Redskins are not in a hurry to give up their 1st and 2nd round picks in 2011. Let alone add another pick for a luxury position.
-Vincent Jackson is rumored to be an alcoholic. He already has 2 DUI’s and a 3 game suspension. He wants to be paid like Brandon Marshall and you don’t want to pay him. He’s also willing to sit out for 10 games. Which could easily turn into 13 games with the suspension. This is not leverage. You’ve been spoiled by the likes of Charlie Whitehurst and Eli Manning into thinking that you can pull off these Madden like trades.
-So in exchange for the drunk malcontent you want our best receiver and two high draft picks, one of which doesn’t belong to us anymore. I tell you what we’ll compromise. How about we send a 1st, Brian Orakpo, and Santana Moss? That should make up for the lack of a third round pick. And just to help you out at tackle we’ll send you Trent Williams. Heck we’ll even pay his signing bonus before we trade him. Does that seem reasonable or do I need to throw in more players to take Vincent “Kratos” Jackson off your hands?
Wow
Some of these trade scenarios are just ridiculous, it seems as if Peyton manning is being traded (Santana moss, 1st round and 3rd round pick?).
The chargers will probably get a 2nd rounder frm the skins and maybe Malcolm Kelly with the 2nd rounder if they’re lucky.

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