Chargers Draft - Community Grades: Cam Thomas
by John Gennaro on Apr 26, 2010 1:23 PM PDT
in NFL Draft
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PrintPerhaps the San Diego Chargers' best value pick, maybe the best value pick of the entire draft, was their 5th round selection of DT Cam Thomas from the University of North Carolina.
The plusses on Thomas are numerous and read similar to the scouting report on first-round, everyone-wants-a-piece-of-him NT B.J. Raji from the 2009 NFL Draft. His technique is good, he stays low to the ground, he's unbelievably strong with a quick first-step.
Cam Thomas bring very little to the table as a pass-rusher. He is not Warren Sapp and isn't Jay Ratliff either. What he very easily could be is a player that demands a double-team at the nose and keeps his linebackers clean to make plays. The Bolts' linebackers have been dying for a guy like this to come along.
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B
I did not want this guy (or Cody) because he seemed to offer next to nothing rushing the passer, but that was when he was hyped to be a 2nd round pick.
As a 5th round pick, well that’s a different story; I hope he can step in behind whatever player steps into the starting NT role, and be worked into the rotation day one.
It’s going to be interesting what kind of patch work defensive line emerges from the bodies currently on the roster
IMO
Pass Rush
I don’t think he needs to provide a pass rush. If he requires 2 bodies to block, an ILB or one of our safeties can blitz up the middle…if one of the blockers moves off Thomas he should be able to outmuscle the one blocker and essentially get a pass rush. I’m okay if he can’t get a pass rush when he’s got 2 blockers on him…but who can!?!?!?
by Christopher Hernandez on Apr 26, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the point is
He won’t be able to provide much of a pass rush even when he’s not double teamed so teams probably won’t double team him in passing situations.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Apr 26, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I will be satisfied with him pushing the center 2-3 yard back and compressing the pocket.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Apr 26, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's my point
no NT gets the ‘stars attention’ because they do all the dirty work for everybody else to be better. I’m plenty fine with him getting a push up the middle, even if it isn’t a true pass rush
by Christopher Hernandez on Apr 26, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A
The potential combined with the value of getting him in the 5th makes this an A for me.
Were I starting a defense from scratch, I wouldn’t pick him. But that’s not the case here. The D-line has one big need, and that’s for a space eater. Cam Thomas does one thing: eat space. Great match.
He’s still a bit of a project and he won’t give you 65 snaps a game, but if he can be effective for 30-35 plays and help shut down the run he’ll be a great addition to the defense.
How
do you not like the Triple Fat Goose; either he is in transition to the starter or a good stop gap as a two down lineman. Either way a great pickup in the fifth.
A
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Apr 26, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Draft Grades
To me, the whole concept of a grade at this stage is ridiculous. My critique is that trading away high picks year after year (3 seconds in the last four years?) will hurt the quality of this (or any other) team over time. To me, drafting is a numbers game. You will hit some, miss some; and the more quality picks you have, the more likely you are to get high quality players. I don’t think anyone is smart enough to consistently outperform the other 31 organizations in picking talent. Granted, some appear better than others; but within the 15 20 front offices, there is not a lot to pick. Those that trade down, add picks will have more consistency than those who draft up to pick, “the guy”. I do not like what the Chargers have been doing over the last couple of years. I’d give them a barely passing grade - C.
by San Marcos Landlord on Apr 26, 2010 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
then again
If the FO really likes a player and they are afraid that player will be gone by their next pick, should they trade up for him? Or just hope he falls to them and take their second choice if he doesn’t. A case could be made for either, but if your FO believes they have an impact player available, isn’t it reasonable to go get him?
also, on this particular pick, we gave up a 2011 5th rounder to move up for Thomas.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Apr 26, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
There are great drafting teams
That routinely do not have a high number of picks, and trade up and or trade away draft picks. The Jets, Giants, and Balt come to mind.
IMO
Baltimore is a bad example. They are opportunistice and they will trade down just as readily as they will trade up. They are also very smart in playing the free agent game to acquire (usually) multiple numbers of compensatory picks.
My point is that the same point I would make to an investor. Buying an index fund (or better, a diversified portfolio of index funds) is a more profitable strategy than trying to beat the market. You can do it at a lower cost and you will be more consistent over time. That translates in this enviornment to generally acquiring picks and sorting through the winners and losers in the training camp environment.
I do not like seeing picks or future picks traded away to move up. Position in the draft is dramatically overvalued; having lots of extra picks is dramatically undervalued.
by San Marcos Landlord on Apr 26, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The Chargers are also successful comp pick wise
And just like Baltimore have actually become a go to team for the cream of the crop as far as undrafted players go. Having alot of picks is undervalued because it generally means the team didnt trade up for the guy it wanted but rather waited for a particular set of guys to fall to them. There’s obviously something to be said for what the Pats and Eagles do by stacking picks, but the reality is trading down means you have to target a number of different players and many positions to be successful. And that’s a lot harder to do.
One thing we can agree on, I hate seeing futures traded. Its a bull shet long term strategy, but only if it handicaps the club. And that wasnt the case this year, because the Chargers will have plenty of ammo for the 2011 draft
IMO
A
Every 5th round pick should have this much upside! He could be our next Jamal Williams. He should be very solid in the rotation and will be able to play at a high level for his 20-30 snaps a game.
His one knock was that he takes plays off, but NC had him playing 50-60 snaps a game (which makes sense in college where he is probably their best defensive player). He’ll play fewer snaps here and should be able to play at a more intense level.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Apr 26, 2010 1:47 PM PDT reply actions
A
It not only fills a huge need, but is a great value pick, i think until this point some were starting to wonder if we were gonna address NT at all, but to get someone who will probably become a starter very quickly in the 5th round is a very good return, especially considering he was touted as a 2nd round quality player.
Maybe
pull back the reins on that “become a starter very quickly” part. At least take out the “very” and probably the “quickly”.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Apr 26, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
John
would you be so kind as to include the trade terms for any of these picks we moved up to get?
For Cam Thomas we gave up next year’s 5th to swap 5th round picks with the Eagles to move from #159 to #146
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Apr 26, 2010 1:59 PM PDT reply actions
One of those things that will look negative in context. People will just be mad that we gave up next year’s 5th to move up 13 spots, neglecting the fact that we will most likely have more than 1 2nd rounder and more than 1 3rd rounder next draft….and no team really wants to try to balance their roster/budget after drafting 9-10 guys.
"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22
by John Gennaro on Apr 26, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be mad about it
I actually think it would be helpful if you included the trade terms, but that’s just my opinion.
by SoCalBoltFan on Apr 26, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea no one will care
AJ left the Chargers in great position next year with 5 of the first 100 picks; plus a 6th and 7ths and two late comps
IMO
by Foilhat on Apr 26, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Yeah, we gave up an extra pick, but it was an ammo pick. Was he worth drafting where we drafted him? YES!
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 26, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
A minus
I worry that he will eat himself out of a job. 330 at 21 years old! I wonder where he will be in 3 or 4 years. Great selection in the 5th round.
We are set at NT now. If not Thomas, then Nwagbuo. If not Nwagbuo then Martin.
Yeah no worries on the pass rush, as long as he takes up two blockers on the rushing downs and plugs the middle. He’ll be able to push the pocket if he gets single teamed on passing downs.
Every good NT
Has a weight problem they wouldnt be upwards of 330 lbs if they didnt
IMO
by Foilhat on Apr 26, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I gave it a B, because...
I didn’t think AJ would be able to get Mathews at 28, but definitely Mathews and Dan Williams at 18 and 40. I think he made too many switches and settled for something a little less than what he could have had. I’m almost willing to bet that Ron Rivera can turn Thomas into a valuable starter, but that he could have done more with Dan Williams. Sorry, I just had slightly higher expectations for this draft. I give the whole draft an overall grade of B-. It would have been an A if the picks had been Ryan Mathews, Terrence Cody, Dominique Franks or Perrish Cox, and Bruce Campbell or Selvish Capers. Larry Asante or Reshad Jones could have been almost or just as good as Stuckey.
by Superduperboltman on Apr 26, 2010 6:53 PM PDT reply actions
I am wondering
Why is everyone saying (experts & analysts) that Thomas is only gonna be used on running downs, and that he´s not effective on passing downs ? I mean, if he can double team in the middle and create space for our LBs, isn´t it the whole purpose of passing downs ?
Most likely
Teams would choose not to double team him on passing downs because he’s not that tough to handle on the pass rush. He’s a work in progress. Hopefully Don Johnson can teach him to become a better pass rusher in the next couple of years.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I see, makes sense ;)
I do hope though that his skills and development will make him an everydown Nose. It would fix the roster at NT once and for all!!
I’m glad someone posted this after I talked myself out of it.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Apr 28, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
FAIL
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
A
The fact that we were able to pick him up in the fifth round is awesome. He will provide a huge presence in the trenches on running downs. He cannot rush the passer and generally cannot make plays beyond the line of scrimmage, but if he can occupy a few blockers, lanes should finally begin to open for Phillips, Merriman, and English.
Self-anointed President of the Kenjon Barner fan club.
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