Tales from an Uniformed Armchair GM (The Chopping Block)
by Grey Suit on Feb 25, 2010 12:05 PM PST
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PrintWith the departure of LT this week, I thought I would look at some of the other Charger veteran players who may end up suffering the same fate this offseason.
Stephen Cooper - As was documented in John's article last week, Cooper had a serious drop off in production last season, which is never a good sign when a player is on the wrong side of 30 (Cooper will be 31 next season). While Cooper is one of the few leaders on the Chargers defense (and team as a whole) if he continues to play at the level of play he had in 2009 his leadership qualities may not be enough to justify his spot on defense trying to win a championship.
The two main reasons I think Cooper may be a target for the chopping block is both his contract status (he only has one year left in which he is due to make $2.875 mil) and the emergence of younger players (Siler (24), Dobbins (27) and Burnett (27)) who are more likely to be the future of this defense. If the Chargers believe that any two of those players should start instead of Cooper then it would really not make sense from a player development, economic, and team moral standpoint to keep Cooper on the roster, where he would occupy a spot that would be better spent on a younger player who can help out on special teams and potentially develop into a starter (much like Siler did). In the end I don't see Cooper wearing the blue and gold next season and would expect him to be cut sometime after the draft (assuming the Chargers draft a project type ILB).
Likelihood of being cut: High
Ryon Bingham - Bingham had somewhat of a break out year in 2007 backing up the constantly injured Luis Castillo and continued to play well (as a backup) throughout the 2008 season. Bingham was penciled in as the starting DE opposite of Castillo as training camp began but unfortunately suffered a season ending arm injury during training camp. I have not heard much on the status of Bingham's health (which I'm guessing is a good thing) but with only one year left on his current contract (worth $1.75 mil) and the unlikelihood of him receiving an extension (he will be 30 when his contract expires) I think any kind of setback in his rehabilitation may cause the Chargers to take a second look at his roster spot.
Another challenge Bingham will face is the emergence of other players who stepped up their game Bingham's absence last season (Martin, Johnson, Scott, Nwagbuo) and may have the inside track in the battle for the backup DE and DT spots during training camp. While I think the possibility of Bingham being cut before training camp begins is low, I think the chances of him making the 53 man roster out of training camp is just as low.
Likelihood of being cut: Medium
Jamal Williams - Well the Chargers have already cut one aging superstar this week. Is it possible that they could cut another? It's no secret that Williams is breaking down, the man has been taking on double and triple teams for the past 13 years and the physical toll placed on his body and specifically his knees is adding up. While Williams was the most dominate nose guard in the NFL for the better part of a decade the wear-and-tear on his body over the years has limited his playing time and kept him off the field for almost the entire 2009 season. The Chargers faired ok last season without Williams clogging the middle of the line, but he is a once in a lifetime type player and the Chargers will not be able to find another player with his size, speed, and most importantly his ability to take over the nose of the defense any time soon. Williams only has one year left on his contract (worth $5 mil) and at the age of 34 I don't see the Chargers extending him after this season.
There are really only two reasons I could see the Chargers cutting Williams, if he is still injured and does not project to be ready by the start of the season or if the Chargers feel like with the exit of LT and the uncertainty surrounding Merriman, VJ, Sproles, McNeill and the CBA, they may just want to cut their losses during the 2010 season and develop some of their younger players (Martin, Nwagbuo and any player they may draft) to be ready for a run in 2011. In the end I think Jamal stays a Charger (barring injury) but in a reduced role. I think both Williams (who has openly considered retirement) and the Chargers would be happy with him only playing one or two downs a series and rotating in and out with younger players but still providing a veteran presence.
Likelihood of being cut: Low
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Solid post
Would have to agree. Although Im of the opinion that OG, Johnson, and Martin will all be on the 2010 team. So I guess that means that Bighman would surely be on the outside looking in if we draft a pure NT.
Another guy that I think is headed for the axe is Tucker. He doesnt play STs well enough to be the 5th OLB or 9th LB or however you want to look at it. And Im pretty sure that if both he and Applewhite come back healthy, that Applewhite offers far more upside for a scrub LB.
I figure if we draft a ILB (even a late round one) that he could take eithers Coops spot; or what I consider Holts spot as the 9th LB.
I thought about Tucker bud did not include him for two reasons
1. Merriman will not be here after the 2010 seaon (he may be gone before the 2010 season) and Tucker adds vetereain depth behind English and Phillips.
2. Tucker is signed through 2012 so I really doubt the Chargers cut him three years early. That would be alot of crow AJ would have to eat after giving him that contract. Also Tucker is only due $550K next season which is backup type money.
It's not really eating crow
One of the reasons you sign a player to a deal like Tucker’s is that they become a discount if they develop into a starter, but the signing bonus isn’t so prohibitive that you can’t cut them. So they are prime candidates to cut if they don’t become starters. I’d at least put him in the “Low” category.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Yeah but do you think he will get cut before the season
or during the final cut downs durring the preseaosn?
I guess preseason
But I could say the same for Bingham.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Right which is what I wrote in my post
I think Bingham only gets cut before the preseason if his rehab is not where it is supose to be.
If he’s back he’ll surely be the LB in street cloths on Sundays. I figure we can agree on that much.
Well Lights is likely back in 2010
On a tender that just seems logical. I know you’ll say what and see, but that just seems like the only move. And if we draft a OLB that would hardly make it more likely that Tucker would be active on gamedays.
But why cut him before training camp
I think he’ll have just as much of a shot to make the team as any other OLB.
On Jwall
If i remember correctly his injury was very early in the season, and it was a arm not a leg injury. So he would have both those things going for him; I know he was going to try and play at a reduced weight in 2009.
The more I think about Jwall, the more I realize that we have to get another shorter bigger guy to at least groom. There’s no doubt that we really have no choice but to reach for one of these prospective NTs. hopefully its Cam Thomas.
I never stated what type of an injury williams had last season
just that he was out. I noted his knee’s being bad because thats what limited his playing time in 08.
" I was just thinking aloud..."
Brings up the philosophical condunrum:
If a blog falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Not until training camp
We cut LT early because we knew for sure that he was gone and it was a show of respect to let him go before the Combine (so that his agent has a chance to meet with all the teams).
But if they are thinking about cutting Coop, there would be no reason to do that before we get a good look at him and the other LB possibilities at training camp. I’m pretty sure his contract isn’t guaranteed until the beginning of the regular season and there’s no reason not to bring him into camp.
Same with Bingham and probably Jamal.
With Bingham and Williams it depends on if they have any roster bonuses due (Which I could not find any info on)
But if a part of their salary is not guaranteed at some point then I agree that they will wait till camp.
Coop on the other hand I think it will be more based on what the Chargers do in the draft, if they find another ILB that they like in the middle rounds I think Coop will be gone before camp. Also if Coop does not factor into the Chargers 2010 plans they may cut him sooner rather than later so that he has a better shot to make another teaem.
The reason they cut LT early
Was so he could shop himself at the combine. If they were going to cut Williams I’m sure they would extend the same courtesy.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I think if they cut williams it will be because of his healthy
and he will end up retiring. If he can play next season I think it will be as a Charger.
But if things don’t look good by next Friday (healthy wise) then I think they will cut him before his roster bonus is due.
Then he won't get cut by Friday
Recovery from a triceps tear is pretty standard, you’re talking about such a small percentage of cases where the player wouldn’t be on track in the recovery process. Not to mention its not exactly something he needs 100% recovery from (don’t get me wrong, it’s important, but not as much as ankles or knees or back, but he’d still be an excellent DT even if his tricep didn’t work quite as well as it used to). I guess you did call it “Low” though. I’d say it’s near impossible.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I reall can't see Cooper getting cut
He plays such an important role on the defense. I fully expect a 5 man rotation on ILB. I don’t expect to see any draft picks used on ILB as we have more pressing issues (RB, DL, OL and CB) to use picks. Don’t get me wrong, there will be at least 2-3 UDFA ILBs picked up for training camp. I really can’t see Burnett as a full-time starter. He only play in about 11 games last year. And you could tell sometimes that the weeks off really helped him get back in with a lot of energy. Siler is not ready for a starting role and Dobbins isn’t either. This is equivalent to the Antonio Pierce situation in NYG and I expect to see Cooper as the opening day and week 17 starter.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Could also add
Our 5th safety and 4th corner to that potential ax list. We have one young corner on IR, and we seem to always draft one.
And although Spillam played STs pretty well, he looked lost quite a bit.
I thought about adding Oliver
But he is only due to make $550K so I think he will get a shot to make the team.
The 5th safety and 4th corner battle will happen durring training camp and not durring the offseason.
Yeah
Oliver is a good STs player. He’s surely on the 2010 roster. I guess I consider everything prior to the first game the off season.
I'm looking at players who could get cut by next friday
its way to early to figure out who will make the final 53 man roster.
Our safeties are set
None of them will be cut, they will battle PS guys for the spot on the team.
Both Gregory and Oliver played more than well enough to be on this team next year.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
If/When Cro is traded
Gregory is effectively our “starting” nickel back. And Oliver is the only FS on the team since Weddle and Ellison are both better fits as SS.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Weddle is one of the best FS in the league
But he is a far departure from a true SS. He is basically the definition of a free safety; a guy you can count on to make a play in any region of the field, especially when the other 6 guys in front of him have missed a tackle. His about the farthest thing you could find in a safety from a strong safety. Gregory is the back-up FS and him and Oliver battle for nickelback.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
Oliver's the backup FS
Gregory’s the backup SS
"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22
by John Gennaro on Feb 27, 2010 5:17 AM PST up reply actions
Could I get stats or links to highlights...
…that support this statement?
Bingham had somewhat of a break out year in 2007 … and continued to play well (as a backup) throughout the 2008 season.
by Andy (allfield) on Feb 25, 2010 1:54 PM PST reply actions
Maybe breakout is not the right term
But he had productive seasons for the rolls in which he assumed.
2007 2 games started 39 tackles 1.5 sacks
2008 0 games started 25 tackles 1.5 sacks
http://www.chargers.com/team/roster/Ryon-Bingham/d2f0f05b-6899-4e6b-9f23-403ea3b2c447
I know the team
Had really high hopes for him as an Olshansky replacement.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Acee wrote
that they had been grooming him to hold down the DE spot for a year or so while they got a real replacement.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Feb 25, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
I had just been hearing Bingham’s name as the odds-on guy for RDE, and I’ve just never seen it. I understand that stats aren’t a fair barometer, but I would just like to see the guy, I don’t know, get penetration once in a while. How about actually beat a blocker?
My memory is of Bingham coming in on passing downs and contributing El Zippo to the pass rush. Again, sacks aren’t what it’s all about when it comes to a 3-4 DE, but I think it’s a safe bet that if the Bolts had a DLineman who could/did get more than 4-5 a year, you’d instantly see a vast improvement to this defense (which I suppose is akin to saying “if the Chargers score more points than the opponent they’re likely to win more games”).
by Andy (allfield) on Feb 25, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
But, I think the Chargers don’t want to make the financial investment on a guy that might get those 4-5 sacks a year. They seem to be happy with just having a space eater at that position and paying him peanuts. I guess only time will tell if those was a philosophy or just the result of necessity.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Not to seem too brash....
But stop using stats for D-Lineman!!!!!!!
Stats are effectively meaningless for our 3-4 lineman because they are not asked to make plays. They are meant to eat space/blockers/gaps and let the linebackers make the plays. Its very hard to find a D-Line in a 3-4 system that gets a ton of sacks or tackles because that not the way the system is arranged.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
No worries
I took the “brashness” to be directed at those who ask for the stats rather than at those who provide them.
The Grey Suit remains… neatly pressed.
by Andy (allfield) on Feb 25, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't realize right away that stats were asked for
And for that I apologize. My brashness was improperly directed.
Now I have to wait for the proper occasion…
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
May as well add the trading block
To your uninformed GM series. Acee seems to be reporting that this Cro trade is a near certainty at this point.
I hope we get at least a 2nd for Cro. The good news is its a great draft for corners.
John covered the Cro trade pretty well
as well as the possibility of trading VJ and Merriman. Not really sure who else is on the block.
If we do cut Cooper...
I really hope we draft Micah Johnson in the 3rd or 4th. The kid has a TON of potential and he’d be well worth a mid draft choice. 6’2 258 , 4.5-4.6 40 and has been the ONLY person on that Kentucky defense for a long time.
Micah Johnson
Right now Micah Johnson is not seen as a guy who is worthy of a 3rd or 4th round pick. He’s seen more of a 5th or 6th round pick, with most leaning towards the 6th.
I think one of the issues is that he’s seen as too big and slow. That 4.5-4.6 40 time would surprise a lot of scouts and change his stock if he did run that. The highest projected 40 time I’ve seen for him is 4.78 and I’ve seen as low as 4.85. Of course, it could be a Kevin Ellison situation where his current 40 time has more to do with injury that athleticism. But, typically players that are slowed because of lingering injury end up falling to the later part of the draft.
I’m not trying to burst your bubble, just relaying information.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I hope you're right!
Cuz that’d be one hell of a steal for us if we did draft him. He doesn’t move exceptionally well laterally by his straightline speed should be fine at the combine. I know he had a minor knee injury in Kentuckys bowl game so maybe that’s why he’s projected so late. He’s a complete LB, he plays the run and pass well and he’s really aggressive exactly the kind og developmental player we could use at ILB especially late in the draft.
I could see the Chargers' draft going...
1. RB Best
2. NT Thomas
3. OT Kyle Calloway
4. ILB Pat Angerer
5. RB Blount
6. CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah
7. AJ’s Choice
Would not be unhappy with this at all. Basically, the point I’m making here is that I think if cutting Coop were a serious possibility, we would draft an ILB earlier than the 6th.
Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.
by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 28, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
Calloway would be a reach in round 3, in my (and Scouts, Inc) opinion. The more up-to-date sites only have him as high as a 4th rounder. I could see the Chargers going with Saffold if they wanted a OT, however, I’m not convinced that they do.
Also, we’d need to draft a kick returner in their somewhere. I’m thinking they may like Jacoby Ford. But, with his 40 times, I’m sure someone else does as well.
Angerer doesn’t seem like a good fit for our defense unless A.J. is growing tired of Burnett (which seems unlikely).
I like Owusu-Ansah pick, but he probably won’t be available in the (late) 6th round.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
i would bet money
that cooper is back and starting next year.
I highly doubt that he will be cut.
but thats just my opinion
Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.-Einstein
He will definately be starting
There really is no replacement at this point.
And honestly, he wasn’t that bad this year.
You can’t blame Cooper if Weddle wants more tackles…
But seriously, if Cooper holds on to those 2-3 picks early in the
season he might have been in Pro Bowl contention.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Well we can agree to disagree then
Cause I just dont think he’s that good at all. He was replaced by Siler on the strong side already, so at this point if he’s going to start he’ll have to earn the spot at will over Dobbins, Burnett, and whomever else.
Siler was a replacement in obvious running downs
Then in the passing situations we saw a lot of Burnett. I think we will see a repeat of that with Dobbins providing breathers for everyone.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Siler took the mike spot from cooper
And Cooper moved to the Mo spot and started there the rest of the season. Cooper was the only lb who never came off the field for running or passing ( perhaps for short yardage )
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Feb 25, 2010 9:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Don't forget injury
That’s what really kept Cooper from reaching his potential in 2009. Of course, that could be due to age. Seems to me, if he’s healthy he’s starting material.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Feb 25, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah Im not saying that he wont start for sure
Just that if he’s not the starter then he could very well be cut, unless he somehow rediscovers his old STs skills.
1. I say he gets a shot at the starting spot because they know what he’s capable of when he’s healthy and will take that into consideration when they do his 2009 evaluation.
2. He could easily rediscover his ST skills, but I assume would prefer to catch on somewhere else where he has a chance to start.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Feb 25, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree on the special teams
You can’t risk injury to Cooper on ST. That’s for the youngin’s
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Ok, fine, we disagree completely
I don’t think he will be a backup and therefore I don’t think he needs to play ST. You are on the other side of this imaginary fence, so let’s agree to disagree and both wait eagerly for the draft :)
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds like pure speculation
but Schefter is proclaiming that the Rams are taking Bradford with #1 pick.
With the Lions open to dealing the #2 pick, could we put together a package they would take and then have our pick of Suh or McCoy? Maybe Cro and our 1st rounder would do it? Or Cro and a 1st and 4th or something? Would that be worth it for us?
If we somehow magically managed to get in position to draft McCoy or Suh,
And decided to draft McCoy over Suh…I would probably lose faith in humanity. Or AJ. Either way…
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
Suh wouldn't help us very much anyways
Sure, he would be a beast at DE, but Castillo is THE MAN right now. We’ve got a dominant DE already. And Suh wouldn’t help us that much at NT since he probably can’t handle the double team in a 3-4 the way he has been eating college OG’s. Its VERY different against NFL NTs. I would be amazed if we drafted above 20 through trades. Actually, I would be amazed if we drafted above 28.
by riversformvp on Feb 25, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry.
But Luis Castillo is in no way the man right now. Granted, it can be difficult to gauge the effectiveness of a 3-4 DE, and there was poor depth along the D-line all season. But Castillo did not play at an amazing level last season by any means. We overpaid for him.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
Well
He was double-teamed an awful lot, since teams didn’t have to worry about Jamal. I felt he had a very good season. If I recall correctly, teams were not running to his side very well.
Right. I understand that it was a tough year for Castillo, or any player put in his place.
But I don’t agree in calling him a “dominant DE”. I sure hope that he proves me dead wrong this season. I really do.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
There is no way
That any team would ever trade from #1 down to #28. It just wouldn’t happen. I’ll explain how draft trades are valued when we get closer to the draft. But that would just never happen.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
er #2 down to #28
same concept though.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Not to mention
That neither McCoy or Suh is an ideal fit for the 3-4. They would probably be very good as DEs, but I’m not sure that they’d be #2 pick worthy. In the 4-3, they both definitely have that kind of value.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Really.
The only way this team is picking before #28 is if they trade a player or let him go in RFA. I could see a team shelling out a couple picks, including a 1st, for Vincent Jackson. But #2? I doubt it. I also doubt this team really wants #2.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Feb 26, 2010 4:43 AM PST up reply actions
To BFDC comments on suh mccoy trade up!
Not to bash your opinion or anything but man are you serious? if the lions gave us the 2nd overall pick in the draft for free I don’t think we would take it. Last year Jason Smith, the second overall pick of the draft signed a $62 MILLION dollar contract. Knowing the chargers organization they would much rather put that money towards signing players like Vincent Jackson, Mcniell, Sproles, Merriman,Floyd or a Gates extension, etc. Its just not the right time for us to spend that kind of money on the draft. Don’t forget we just put a lot of money into Rivers. If we signed a rookie that is not guaranteed to be good for 62 MILLION or more or keep 2 to 4 out of those six guys I mentioned above what would you rather do? I would think the only way we move up in the first round is to just move up a few spots to get a guy that teams slept on like C.J Spiller or a NT that’s it. like last year I would have loved to move up 4 spots to take Brian Orakpo. So far there are talks of 4 of the top 10 teams that I know of that have publicly said they are willing to trade down in the draft. And a big reason for that is money. Those teams that I heard of are Rams, Lions, Browns, and Jags, I’m sure there are more that I dont know about!
With your D-line healthy, whole and more experienced ...
your linebackers will look a lot better.
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 25, 2010 8:16 PM PST reply actions
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