History Will Show That L.T. Was Not The Problem!
by 40.OZ on Feb 23, 2010 1:42 PM PST
44 comments
The fact is I cant beleive how so called Chargers Fans are really saying that LT i washed up or doesnt have it! because of his very 1st season in 9yrs that he does not have 100+ yrds rushing sorry people but no matter what back we get that back will not break1000 because this sorry coching staff has abandoned the run from the moment it has gotten here. Norv turner destroys the running game where ever he coaches plain and simple he is a pass first coach who always eventually get figured out especially on the run! Why do youn think every team he has coached for he has a problem with the running backs. The only reason he is having the success with the pass this year is because the chargers have somethimg we have not had for a long long time and that is really good receivers. True charger fans think back....when marty was here and LT was ripping it and brees was doing great we all complained about how our receivers were unreliable and couldnt catch a cold! we were actually where old and problem receivers came to try and PROVE they still had it ( Boston&McCardell) but everyone knew they didnt and were only good for short passes after LT had forced the deffense to stack the box and bring up a safety. Are we forgetting this is the only Man to stiffarm Ray Lewis to the ground like he was a pee wee player! and that was when ray was in his Prime!It just really sickens me how they can just dump him and give up on him that way when anybody that watched this season could see that the
1) run calling was terrible.
2) the O-line looked like it had been trained to pass block only.
3) are FB could not block a LB if there life depended on it! maybe Tolbert if he didnt miss the block but Hester never. Hell we are even only talking about how the FB's can catch. we dont need them to catch we need them to knock the Snot out of LB's and safetys to make coming into the whole the last thing they want to do thats what Lorenzo Neal was able to do and what Tony Richardson is doing for the Jets!
but dont believe me look at history!
Norv Turners stats. take a look at where the teams he coached ranked in rushing ATT.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/TurnNo0.htm
articles on how Norv ABANDONED the run game even when he Knew he ahad a FUTURE HALL OF FAME running back
http://www.bolthype.com/2009/10/norv-turner-in-danger-of-losing-his.html
http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071122/news_1s22chargers.html
Now lets look at Martys stats and how he ranked when it came to running the ball
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SchoMa0.htm
Here are LT's Stats Now you tell me thsi man was not GREAT and should not be ending his career here
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2553
but hey what can you expect from a team and owner that let Natron Means go after he took to our only superbowl and led the league in rushing.
Farewell LT I for one will always root for you even more when you break a 1000+ yards next season and a 100+ of it will be against the chargers because mark my words the NFL will make damn sure what ever team he goes to plays the Chargers and he will burn us bad!!!!
This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.
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Who saw this FanPost coming?
Zach did.
"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22
I totally did.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Feb 23, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
He says
MOAR PLZ.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Feb 23, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
I like your passion man.
my counterpoints:
1. You say Turner is a bad running coach but in 2007, the last year I think LT was great, chargers ranked 7 for ATTs and during 4 out of the 7 years in Washington he was 13th or higher in ATTs. Norv Turner is not somebody who refuses to run.
2. L. Neal defends LT and attacks Norv’s play calling. He’s not exactly a unbiased source. He’s LT’s friend. And he says Norv sucks and that they are going to have another crappy season but instead they went 13-4
3. You’re not even going to comment on your third link? In it they talk about the debate between play-calling and LT’s skills declining. Doesn’t support your argument at all.
4. Marty S. was great at running the ball. But the NFL has changed and he never did. He couldn’t make it happen in the playoffs. And LT was in his prime during those years.
5. LT’s player profile. It shows a RB who has played full seasons until his 30th birthday. And as with the cases of many other RBs the wear and tear got to them and their production dropped off at 30. LT’s a human being. This is what happens.
I’m happy you really like the guy. From my view point he’s slower then in years past, he can’t break tackles anymore and he’s prideful. Hell you got to be crazy to get on a field and want a ball that will make 300 pound men want to destroy you.
But the chargers cut him this year. And AJ was right to want cut him last year. He got his money with his high draft pick and second contract. No one can take away what he did on the field. He’s part of history. He’s a king.
And the chargers are right to cut him cause his high flying days are over.
calling someone else a ‘so called chargers fan’
by not humble enough on Feb 23, 2010 2:16 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
1000 yards? I'll take that bet
Every year that LT has had 1000 yards rushing, he’s also had at least 290 carries. Do you know how many back got 290 carries last year? 6. That’s 6 out 32 possible starting running backs. In 2008 there were 7. In 2007 there were 8. In 2006 there were 11. This is a downward trend.
None of those backs in 2009 with at least 290 carries averaged less than 4.2 yards per carry. That’s important because coaches will tend to shy away from giving guys carries that aren’t getting good yardage. A trend that’s even more obvious when you see that no 1000 yard RB in 2009 had less than 4.0 yards per carry. LT has only averaged over 4.2 yards per carry 5 times (out of 9 years) of his career. So, even if you expect a bounce back year from the man, he’s not overwhelmingly likely to meet that 4.2 yards per carry standard. If you’re like me and thing 4.2 yards per carry for LT is laughable at this point in his career, well then you start to understand why I wouldn’t bet on 1000 yards.
At 4.2 yards per carry, LT will need 238 carries. That’s more than he had this year, but I suspect that people will be expecting more attempts out of him in 2010.
At 4.0 yards per carry, LT will need 250 carries. That’s a 12% increase in carries from 2009 to 2010.
At 3.8 yards per carry, LT will need 263 carries.
At 3.6 yards per carry, LT will need 277 carries and a head coach that’s really stubborn on running the ball.
At 3.4 yards per carry, LT will need 295 carries and a team that’s killing itself by running the ball.
At 3.3 yards per carry (LT’s 2009 avg.) 304 carries is the magic number.
Now, maybe you can look at and see possibilities for LT. But, I look at that and see that he’ll need to be healthy, he’ll need a team committed to running with him and he needs to improve his production. I could fathom 2 of those things happening and I could envision 1 of those things happening. But all three? Man, that seems near impossible.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Feb 23, 2010 2:45 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
i hate to have to agree with you.
I will have to agree with you man. and thats all I needed was somebody to really give me a clear stat explanation. but i still beleive that the coaching staff has alot to do with his number decline in the previous years. we ar becoming a pass first offense, my only fear with that is with the emergence of Revis being such a shutdown corner teams will be pressing for their corners to become the same way which will effect our passing game.I just dont agree with the run play calling at all running sproles up the A & B gaps to face Ray Lewis on 4th and goal is just not smart hell on any situation its not smart because Sproles is a speedy slash back just like LT was i dont rmember ever seeing LT Truck a defender thats not what he was known for so why is it we now say “oh he cant break a tackle” how oftn did he ever just break a full tackle? Arm Tackle yes truck some body and just run clear out there arms No.
I just feel like LT deserved better from the chargers and the fans because as a fan i remeber the years when we were good with Humphries and Means and how ownership basically refused to give means the money he deserved and from there it was down hill spiral into the Leaf years and I dont remeber this many Charger Fans especially not in San Diego you would of thought we were the san Diego Raiders when we were 1-15. So when I made the remark of “so called Chargers Fans” its because just like other teams we do have alot of band wagon fans that when we dont make it to the SB start calling our team the Chokers and what not, let stay true to the Blue. thats all im saying. So lets just hope the grass is greener on the other side and we get another feature back. but if we get a Marshawn Lynch or Deangelo Williams or Tarshad Choice and his stats and lack of production is the same then who are we to blame then?
Revis didn’t beat the Chargers. The Chargers beat themselves.
"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22
by John Gennaro on Feb 24, 2010 5:17 AM PST up reply actions
true but not what i meant
Oh yeah i know that Jackson probably has has the best record against revis (75yds 1st matchup and 100+ yards in that game) thats not what im saying i was pointing out that teams are going to be looking for more shutdown corners like revis beacause i beleive he is the only lone shutdown “dont throw to that side” corner in the league right now. I use to think of Cro as a possible Dieon type cant tackle but has the sppeed and awarenes to be a ball hawk that you dont risk throwing at but now he not only cant tackle he is not finding the ball so i see why he is looking at being traded.
Revis didn't cover Jackson the whole game
So, that skews things. I think he only caught one or two passes with Revis on him. That’s one or two better than Ocho Cinco, however. I hate the Jets and that Walrus of an arrogant coach but Revis is the man.
According to A.J.
We are not becoming a pass first offense. He doesn’t think that the decline in the running game is a purposeful thing.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Yeah right
Wonko you are another dude who i like read what you have to and you know better than me that we are deffinatly a pass 1st offense hell we have opened up a majority of our games with a pass.
I'm just saying
That A.J. believes (or says that he believes) that that is a myth and he doesn’t know why people say it.
I’m just relaying info.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I would probably tend to agree with A.J.
That you don’t have an offense with a philosophy to pass or run “first.” But, when one works better than the other then you are going to want to put your best foot forward. So, on the outside it seems like you are pass first, when in reality you wish you could run more but you don’t want to hurt the team.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
i dont rmember ever seeing LT Truck a defender
Here, let me help with that.
http://sportsshooteracademy.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/bengalschargers-tomlinson-stiff-arm-058.jpg
Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.
by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 24, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Ach du leiber, my bad.
Here’s that last one.
Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.
by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 24, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
Those were the patented LT badass stiff arms, The good old days. Sigh.
But not exactly trucks.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
Please consider re-reading your FanPosts for errors before hitting publish.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Feb 23, 2010 4:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
whether its his fault or not
i think we all can agree that his production has been on a decline for the past 2 years
Driving the "Get Vincent Jackson" Bandwagon.
"Faster than a speeding walrus" -Me.
"Violence is not the answer, it's the question; the answer is YES!!!"
2009 was also LT’s worst year as a pass-catcher. His previous low was 52 catches for 426 yards in 2008. In 2009, he caught the ball only 20 times for 154 yards. There has to be a way that we can blame this on the coaching.
"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22
Well we were moving the ball down feild very well so I can understand that decline. The reason he was even leading our team in that stat is because the man had to do everything our WR’s were horrible back then so any way we could get LT the ball we had to he was all we had as a threat. which is why it just isn’t right to just toss him to the side like this Karma is a Fat one legged B and she always hobbles back to get you.
The reason he was even leading our team in that stat is because the man had to do everything our WR’s were horrible back then
The offense in 2009 was not that different from the 2008 offense. A +50% dropoff in that category is telling. Not to mention LT’s dropoff in pass-blocking. I loved LT, but I think his body just isn’t strong enough/healthy enough any more to do these things (run, catch, block) at this level.
"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22
by John Gennaro on Feb 24, 2010 5:19 AM PST up reply actions
First john i have alot of respect for what you say because I have read many of your post and you deffinately know the team and the sport.
I was talking more about the Brees years.
And make no mistakae I am not saying he has not lost a step John I am a realist he has DEFFINATELY lost a step ( think that Toe is still a issue) I just dont think he was used correctly this year to just give him a chance to be successful we cant expect 5-10 yard runs when he is touching the ball 1 out of 4 plays to get 1st down I know he use to be able to do that but hey the guy is a 30yr old RB who was HEAVILY over used. just dont agrre with giving him the boot like that.reduce his role to help develop a new rookie back would of been a smarter move to me because i dont know who our running back coach is but he has been having a easy job up to this point. as a matter of fact im going to look up if we even have a running back coach.
I think its the old groin injury that more the issue than the old toe issue.
He never got surgery to repair it and it probably didn’t heal to the point where it was just like it was pre-injury.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Actually you can...
They used Sproles as a third down back. Before 2009, LT never came off the field unless he needed a breather. If he had wind, he was in the game. They were trying to ‘keep him fresh’ but I think they just liked what Sproles could do on third down better.
The Chargers ranked 16th in rushing attempts!!
LT has lost the elite acceleration he had in his first 7 seasons, guys don’t confuse the legend of LT, with his current not even top 50 RB in the NFL version.
He runs at 75% speed to the line of scrimmage hoping to find a hole, if there isn’t he just drops his head and fall forward at first contact. The few times a saw a full speed LT all season was on screen passes in the open field.
Is he a bad fit for power running style the chargers run, I’d say yes, because power running teams, need RB that run full speed into contact, and break tackles through a violent running style. The current LT is more like a zone blocking RB, waiting for a cut block, to accelerate to the point. Bad idea if you don’t elite acceleration. Don’t be romantic the current LT is a below average back, pure and simple.
Did you ever think that the reason we “abandoned the run” was because of LT’s inability to get through the line?
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
by CaDuck on Feb 24, 2010 3:56 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
What are the 5 reasons?
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
it kind of reminds me of that movie "You've got mail"...I'm Tom Hanks he's Meg Ryan -- Padres prospect Matt Antonelli on sdsuaztec4
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Feb 24, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
All the UO players BS so far this offseason.
1) Rob Beard getting in a fight, getting curb stomped, and charged for assault as a result.
2) Jeremiah Masoli being accused by a bunch of inebriated frat boys that he stole a laptop
3) LaMichael James being accused of assault
4) Jamere Holland spouting his trap off on facebook and getting kicked off the team
5) Linebacker Kiko Alonso getting suspended from the team for all of next season because of a DUII
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
They didn't abandon it, once again 16th in the league in rushing attempts
I actually thought they were too persistent with the running game, most any coach with 3.4 ypc would run it 10 times and be done with it, the chargers were in the area 26 attempts per game.
The point is they were balanced in play calling distribution, but 1 ranked in yards per pass, but 32 in yards per run. Even then they ranked 16 in attempts and 20th pass attempts.
Abandoning perception holds no water when looking at the actual numbers. I love the quote by Trey Wingo “Don’t go confusing the situation with actual facts”.
That was why I put the term in quotes,
Because, as you stated above my previous comment, we in fact didn’t abandon the run, we were simply terrible at executing it.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
I agree
Remember we had a great deal of injuries in the O line and had to shuffle players around. That could be one reason they did not block well. Consistency is always good in an O line. When you have to keep moving players around because of injury i think that screws everything up. They are to busy trying to block for Rivers to care about blocking for a good run. How many times have you seen LT get tackled in the back field? Many times. Marty was always big on blocking and loved the run. LT ran his best when Marty was there. Even if he lost a step with good blocking he could still run well and make yards. Even Sproles was stopped with this line. Sproles has not lost a step.
LT in is his prime didn't need great line play
The reality is that LT was the best player in the NFL 2002-2003, and he had pretty much mediocre to terrible lines, the current LT needs a very good to great line to succeed. I will admit they are below average running the ball, but the 3.3 ypc some part, a very big part is that he just isn’t very good anymore. The point will be proven for against when LT plays for somebody else. My opinion is that LT 2009 version is not a very good player.
I Agree
I have been a Charger fan since 1978. I have seen many great players come and go. I did not agree with letting Seau or Harrison go when they did. I really don’t agree with letting LT go. There is no loyalty anymore. He is and was the best thing to happen to San Diego Since Seau. When Marty was the coach and they had a great if not the greatest Full back LO Neal back there blocking for LT he had some holes to run through. this O line does not block well enough. No one could run through this line. I love LT and wanted to see him stay and try to catch Emmit Smith and get the record for yards. If we had a great blocking FB and a O line that could block he could still do it. I feel bad for LT. I hope he does go to the Saints and he wins a couple of Super Bowls there. So LT and Brees can laugh at Phillip Rivers and tell him good luck playing for the losers down there in SD. Now they want to get rid of Sproles. They better get a good RB in the first round. I like Best i think he would be great, if he is healthy. Maybe we should get rid of AJ and find another GM. Charger fan for life, but very frustrated.
There is no loyalty anymore?
The Chargers could have let LT go last year, but were loyal enough to renegotiate his contract. They gave him one more year to try and help the team. That was very generous. But, they found out he wasn’t much of a help anymore and in football everyone on the roster has to contribute. So, in hindsight, they might have been too loyal. The Chargers did what they could do, but they can’t be loyal to a fault. You can’t just sacrifice an aspect of your team in the name of loyalty to one player. What about the 52 other guys out there? What about the fans that crave a championship? You can’t sacrifice those things just for a single player no matter how important he was to the team, the fans and the city. You just can’t.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Norv doesn't ruin the running game everywhere he goes.
In 2006 Frank Gore, Larry Allen and Moran Norris all had monster years.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
They had no passing game
The problem with norv and running this past year, was that it was obvious. I believe that 90% of the time this year I was able to correctly predict a run. Norv was never creative in his running scheme with LT. It was always the same crap. Everyone new where and how it was coming. If LT had been in a run system like Dallas, he’d have finished with 20 more carries and 500 more yards at a minimum.
by Superduperboltman on Mar 3, 2010 6:42 AM PST up reply actions
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