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To What End? Examining the 3-4 DE Position

The 3-4 Defensive End has to be least glorious position on the football field. The position is one that doesn't get a lot of sacks and doesn't even get that many tackles. The same could be said for the Nose Tackle, but that guy at least gets seen in goal line stands when he gets penetration and stops an up-the-middle run. When the Defensive End gets penetration chances are the the RB or QB just moves to avoid him. He did his job, but there isn't much glory in it. On top of that, it's impossibly hard to get to a Pro Bowl since the top 4-3 Defensive Ends are usually guys that get 10+ sacks in a season. So who are these blue collar workers of the NFL? Let's get to know them with the same three questions from my similar post on Nose Tackles.

What is a Defensive End?

Who are the 3-4 Defensive Ends in the NFL?

Where do they come from?

Star-divide

What is a Defensive End?

A defensive end gets its name from being the guy on the end of the line of players on defensive who lineup at the line of scrimmage. In the 4-3 this player would line up across from one of the shoulders of the Tight End (6 or 7 technique, you read the Nose Tackle post). Their job is use their speed and power to avoid or attack the offensive lineman on a trajectory that will take them more or less straight to the QB. Obviously speed, pass rushing moves and acceleration to the QB will be the most prized skills for a player at this position. By contrast, the 3-4 defensive end will line up on the outside should of the offensive tackle and his only option is go through the one or more 300 pounders to get to the QB or RB, speed is not going to be a big help.

At this point, maybe you're thinking, "Hey Wonko, I've read/seen the Blind Side, the offensive tackle is supposed to be the athletic guy have to stop all kinds of pass rushes in order to keep his QB clean, isn't it a misuse of his abilities to block the defensive end when a Quarterback hungry sack specialist like Lawrence Taylor/Jerome Harrison/Joey Porter/Shawne Merriman is going to rush as well?" Well, you're right, and that's why the defensive end lines up where he does. He's running interference if he can in some way delay the offensive tackle then that helps his pass rushers get to the QB. If the offensive tackle just goes around the defensive end, then his responsibility shifts to attack the guard and getting penetration using his strength, quickness and hands.

The defensive end may always be a part of a "stunt" where he attacks the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle and forces him wide, while the linebacker rushes the passer to inside and attacks the less athletic guard (or possibly the blocking back if the guard is double teaming the nose tackle). The best defensive ends (your Richard Seymour's and Aaron Smiths) will be good enough to do all this and get some sacks and this may force the offensive to double team him. If he the end is double teamed to go along with the usually already double teamed Nose tackle, then the entire offensive is committed to blocking the 2 ends and the nose tackle leaving the linebackers free to attack with no opposition other than the running backs and tight ends. This is 3-4 Nirvana.

Who are the 3-4 Defensive Ends in the NFL?

Warning: This is a list of very boring and not-so-famous names.

Team Defensive Ends
Arizona Cardinals Calais Campbell/Darnell Dockett
Baltimore Ravens Trevor Pryce/Dwan Edwards
Cleveland Browns Kenyon Coleman/Robaire Smith/Corey Williams
Dallas Cowboys Igor Olshanksy/Marcus Spears
Denver Broncos Ryan McBean/Kenny Peterson/Vonnie Holliday
Green Bay Packers Johnny Jolly/Cullen Jenkins
Kansas City Chiefs Tyson Jackson/Glenn Dorsey/Wallace Gilberry
Miami Dolphins Kendall Langford/Randy Starks
New England Patriots Ty Warren/Jarvis Green
New York Jets Shaun Ellis/Marques Douglas
Pittsburgh Steelers Aaron Smith/Brett Keisel/Travis Kirschke
San Diego Chargers Luis Castillo/Jacques Cesaire/Travis Johnson/Alphonso Boone
San Francisco 49ers Isaac Sapoaga/Justin Smith

 

Where do they come from?

I'm going to do the same breakdown by conference and draft position that I did for the nose tackles, but I must warn you that just from perusing the list above I can tell you that most were not drafted to play 3-4 defensive end. Some, like the Green Bay, Arizona and Denver DEs are holdovers from their 4-3 days and have been thrust into the 3-4 DE position merely by being the most qualified on their team. Others are former high draft picks as 4-3 DEs (Justin Smith, Shaun Ellis) or DTs (Glenn Dorsey, Travis Johnson, Randy Starks, Darnell Dockett) who didn't work out at those positions or maybe just got too old to rush the passer well (Trevor Pryce, Vonnie Holliday) but found their way to jobs in the 3-4. And then there are a bunch of journeyman who are either just finding their niche as 3-4 role players (Alphonso Boone) or have been playing rent-a-4-3-DE (Jacques Cesaire, Marques Douglas, Kenyon Coleman, Travis Kirschke, Robaire Smith, Jarvis Green) for years. Most of the rest then make up the "drafted as 3-4 DE guys" (Luis Castillo, Marcus Spears, Igor Olshansky, Tyson Jackson, Aaron Smith, Ty Warren, Brett Keisel, Isaac Sapoaga, Dwan Edwards).

ACC (6): Florida State (2, Dockett, Johnson), Maryland (1, Starks), UNC (1, Holliday), Clemson (1, Pryce), Miami (1, Campbell)

SEC (6): LSU (4, Dorsey, Green, Jackson, Spears), Tennessee (Ellis), Alabama (Gilberry)

Bg 12 (4): Texas A&M (2, Warren, Jolly), Missouri (J. Smith), Oklahoma State (1, McBean)

Pac 10 (4): UCLA (2, Coleman, Kirschke), Oregon State (1, Edwards), Oregon (1, Olshanksy)

Big Ten (3): Northwestern (1, Castillo), Ohio State (1, Peterson), Michigan State (1, R. Smith)

Mid Majors (3): Hawaii (1, Sapoaga), Central Michigan (1, Jenkins), BYU (1, Keisel)

"Small" Schools (6): Cen. Conn. St (1, Cesaire), No. Colorado (1, A. Smith), Mt. San Antonio JC (1, Boone), Howard (1, Douglas), Hampton (1, Langford), Arkansas St (Williams)

With the small sample size here we can see that LSU produces a lot of big men. Two are well established players (Spears and Green), but not stars. One is not really suited for his role in KC (Dorsey) and the other is just getting his career going in the NFL (Jackson). 3 of them are 1st round picks (all, except Green). I'm not sure there is much to draw from that though. The small schools combine for as many DEs as either of two main big conference sources, which, I think, just points to the fact that these guys can come from anywhere. You just need to be big and strong and take time to learn what you need to do in your role. These are not super athletic giants or fast and slippery speed players, they are the workman of the NFL and just need a certain amount of talent and the rest is just going to work everyday and doing your job well.

Finally, let's break it down by round. We already know we are going to see a fair amount of 1st rounders.

1st Round (9): Castillo, Dorsey, Ellis, Holliday, Jackson, Johnson, Pryce, Spears, J. Smith

2nd Round (3): Campbell, Olshansky, Edwards

3rd Round (4): Dockett, Langford, Peterson, Starks

4th Round (3): McBean, Sapoaga, A. Smith

5th Round (1): Coleman

6th Round (3): Jolly, R. Smith, Williams

7th Round (2): Boone, Keisel

UDFA (4): Cesaire, Kirschke, Gilberry, Jenkins

The trend I see here is that, as I mentioned before, the first rounds are basically high talent guys that can't find their place. Some have gotten second chances in the 3-4, at least one needs a second chance somewhere else (Dorsey) and at least 1 is probably a poor fit in the 3-4, but has the talent to pull it off (Ellis). All of the guys in rounds 2-4 are guys that seem made for the 3-4. Almost all of them have played there their entire careers and are important parts of their defense, although probably not the most important parts. The rest are more of the scrappy guys that find roles on teams that have injuries or just need someone to start for a season or two until they find the right guy or they are 4-3 guys who transitioned to the 3-4 very recently and the jury is still out. Interesting stuff. 

So what does this mean for the 2010 draft? My take is that there is some untapped value in the first round if you can get one of those guys that would end up failing in the 4-3, but the safer route is to go for a truer 3-4 DE in the 2nd through 4th rounds, although, the Chargers just drafted a guy in the 4th round for that role (Martin), they have a former 1st round pick on their roster (Castillo) and could potentially bring back another (Johnson).

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If we add a NT

can we moved OG to DE full time?

And who are your favorite passrushers that project as 34DEs and could kick inside in nickel?

by AirNorval on Feb 20, 2010 10:48 AM PST reply actions  

You'll get a better answer to the second question when I do my rankings and descriptions

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 20, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Your 2nd question describes Geno Atkins from Georgia.

I’ve heard those exact things about him. Potential 3-4 DE with the ability to move inside in the nickel and provide a pass rush.

by Harsh_619 on Feb 20, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Acee wrote in his mailbag the other day

that it’s inescapable to conclude at this point that the Chargers overpaid for Castillo. He had an up-and-down season, and despite having a lot of upside still hasn’t played up to it.

Your thoughts, Wonk?

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Feb 20, 2010 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

Sounds about right

For what he was paid Castillo should have been able to produce at or near the level of other top DEs like Aaron Smith (when he used to be young and healthy) or Richard Seymour (when he was with the Pats), but he never has.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 20, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

yup

but at the time, it wasn’t a bad risk. Plus, Castillo has been more than servicable, just not upper echelon.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Feb 21, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Vaughn Martin

I really would like this kid to succeed. When do you know that he has made it as a 3-4 DE? Any idea of how far away he is from being considered a starter?

I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 20, 2010 6:14 PM PST reply actions  

My guess is that he’ll be given a shot to win the job in Training Camp.

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22

by John Gennaro on Feb 21, 2010 5:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Worth noting...

that the Steelers picked up Aaron Smith in round 4 and Brett Kiesel in round 7. However, things have changed a lot. When those guys were drafted hardly anyone was playing the 3-4. Shift forward to 2009 and the same team had to use the last pick of Round 1 to find a 3-4 DE (Ziggy Hood). KC Used a Top 10 pick on Tyson Jackson (a huge mistake IMHO) but you get where I’m going. If you want a guy who’s going to be a talent at 3-4DE you have to be prepared to pick him 3 or 4 rounds earlier than you could 10 years ago.

by KiwiSteelerFan on Feb 20, 2010 8:42 PM PST reply actions  

True to some extent

I still don’t think Aaron Smith would be drafted much higher even today. Maybe in the 3rd round or so. Playing at Northern Colorado just doesn’t give you that kind of exposure. The Steelers are just excellent at developing talent. I’m not sure that the current Steelers are as savvy at finding and developing players like that. Or maybe, it’s just that there’s only one Aaron Smith.

I’m also not sure that this Chiefs FO is very draft savvy. Although, they were probably not operating at 100% with the regime change. I can’t fault them for trying to find their Richard Seymour. I’m just not sure Jackson is that guy.

I was doing a mock draft on another website recently though and it was catching me offguard with how high some of the 3-4 guys were going. Especially with Buffalo switching to the 3-4 and basically revamping their whole offensive line.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 20, 2010 9:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for this Wonko

I’m really enjoying these posts – I’d be happy if you covered every position, :)

We live in a world where all too often evil triumphs over good - http://spunc.com.au/members/hunter/product/9780980517965/

by Aussie fan on Feb 22, 2010 3:19 PM PST reply actions  

I could probably do some after the draft

I wasn’t planning on doing any more after this. Or at least, not in this same format.

Ideas that are similar that I’m thinking about
How to draft a RT
-Something about the secondary -
assuming that Cro is traded.(this will focus on guys in the draft and what the Chargers would look for to fit their defense and the responsibilities nickel/dime defensive backs vs. outside CBs)
Something about the 3-4 LBs (depends on if I think we’ll actually be drafting one or more).
-I’d love to do an analysis of the RB position as it relates to how the Chargers have used their tailbacks in recent times, but I’m not sure how much game film I’ll have at my disposal or how much time I’ll be able to spend on it. It’d be a great thing to do before the Chargers acquire a new RB though.

Hopefully anything I write on those subjects will help. Feel free to email me or any of the other bloggers here if you have questions about any position.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 22, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

whoops

ignore the crossout lines. No crossouts were supposed to be there.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 22, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

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