Bolts From The Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Rumors: Edwin Jackson to the White Sox, DC next?

Trade Ideas for the San Diego Chargers

Happy Monday everybody.  I hope you all enjoyed your first non-football weekend in about 5 months and are ready to get a jump on the offseason.  I have a theory that I'd like to share with you, which will undoubtedly be proven wrong by somebody in the comments, that might make the next six months a lot more fun for all of us.

You know how the Chargers (A.J. Smith, really) are typically boring in the offseason?  They don't sign many free-agents and stay away from the big names.  They don't go after glamor picks in the draft.  They typically spend their offseason renegotiating contracts and signing certain players to extensions.  What a boring time to be a Bolts fan.  My theory is that the 2010 offseason may be one of the most entertaining ones in recent history because of the ramifications of there not being a new CBA agreement in place between the players and owners.

Star-divide

 

Follow me here.  Owners are going to be completely unwilling to give long-term contracts to any free agent that is not "elite" this offseason.  Why?  Because they have no idea what the salary cap situation is going to be in 2012 and beyond.  Whereas battles between teams for free agents in the past mostly revolved around "Who was willing to pay the most money and risk getting the least value?", it has now added the question of "Who is willing to pay the most money and possibly screw their entire team up in two years?"  In addition to not knowing what the salary cap will be, or if there will even be one, teams have no idea what the penalties for going over the salary cap will be in the future as well.  That'll keep guys like Daniel Snyder from saying "Screw it" and signing free agents to big contracts.

So why does this make for a more entertaining offseason for the Chargers?  Because while A.J. Smith has shown to be shy about signing free agents, he is one of the best and most frequent traders amongst NFL GMs.  Almost nobody values the draft and relatively unknown players more than Smith, and in trades he can get rid of a headache or a soon-to-be-rich player and get picks and/or unknown players with potential in return.  That not only makes his cap situation easier (younger players get less money, typically), but it gives him a chance to do what he loves to do: scout for talent.

Here's a list of the Chargers Unrestricted Free Agents, Restricted Free Agents and Exclusive Rights Free Agents for this offseason.

UFA RFA ERFA
Alfonso Boone Jeromey Clary Antwan Applewhite
Brandon Manumaleuna Tim Dobbins Mike Tolbert
Dennis Norman Malcom Floyd
Kassim Osgood Antonio Garay
Jon Runyan Eric Ghiaciuc
Ian Scott Marques Harris
Kris Wilson Vincent Jackson
Marcus McNeill
Shawne Merriman
Darren Sproles
Dontarrious Thomas
Charlie Whitehurst

 

Let's break down a couple of possible scenarios by position.

OLB: Two words: Joey Porter.  In the past I thought it'd be silly to trade to get him, because you'd probably be giving up equal value to get him and not really gaining anything.  Now that he's been released though, and is pining to play for a team on or near the west coast, it makes total sense. 

Joey, even at 32, is every bit as good as Shawne Merriman is right now.  He may only have a year or two left, but it's not like the Chargers are even thinking about signing Merriman to a long-term deal.  What the Chargers could do is slap a 1st round tender or even a 1st & 3rd on Merriman and then starting fielding calls.  Let it be known that you'd accept a 2nd & and a 5th from the right team (outside the division, high picks, etc.).  I'd be willing to bet that somebody like San Francisco or Cleveland would be willing to pay that.  Now what you've done is replaced Shawne Merriman (who may or may not be a headache in the upcoming season due to his contract situation) with Joey Porter and two valuable draft picks.  You've also probably saved yourself a little money and possibly a headache.  A OLB group of Porter, Shaun Phillips, Larry English, Jyles Tucker, Antwan Applewhite and/or Marques Harris is better than the one they fielded in 2009.

 

WR: The rumors about the Dolphins' love for Vincent Jackson are already swirling.  Hey, I love what VJ does for the offense as much as the next guy, but A.J. Smith can get back more than what Jackson is probably worth....you have to make that move.  Here's a few reasons why it would make sense to start talking trade with Miami:

-Depth.  I know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but Buster Davis is talented.  Every time he steps on the field, he runs good routes and makes tough catches.  His issue up until this post has been about health, not about talent.  It's the same issue that Malcom Floyd had coming into the 2009 season. 

Buster (24) is two years younger than Vincent Jackson (26), but will have a hard time getting time on the field if VJ, Floyd and Legedu Naanee are all in front of him next year.  The team knows he has talent, and they know they're paying him good money....they would love to see results.  My theory is that the team essentially gave Buster a year off to give him confidence and to get fully healthy....during that Redskins game he certainly showed off both.

I'm not saying Buster should take over the #1 WR spot.  Far from it.  I just think a WR group of Floyd, Naanee and Davis could be every bit as good as Jackson, Floyd and Naanee were in 2009.  Also, recent history has shown that it's the QBs that make the passing game and not necessarily the WRs, which is why players like Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon have become well-known by NFL fans.

-Value.  You could argue that Vincent Jackson's value will never be higher than it is right now.  There's no guarantee that Antonio Gates (29) and Malcom Floyd (28) will be as good next year as they were this year.  If the Chargers get a successful running game working in 2010, that's less balls coming VJ's way and possibly less TDs as well.  Jackson just went through a season where him and the QB were the centerpiece of the offense, and that may not happen again.  Also, there's another big reason that VJ's value may be dropping soon....

-Suspension/Trouble.  Oh boy.  I'm not going to really dive into this, but we all know that A.J. Smith keeps a folder on each player that's filled with issues that they've had off-the-field.  Vincent Jackson's second DUI case is coming up this offseason, and by now we've all heard about him getting handcuffed for driving with an expired license on his way to the Jets playoff game.  Also, we can't ignore the silly personal foul penalty that he got in the game after kicking the challenge flag back at Rex Ryan. 

In a nutshell, Vincent Jackson has been a constant source of off-the-field trouble (and it gets worse during the playoffs, apparently) and is most likely facing a suspension at the beginning of the 2010 season.  Do the Chargers, a team that is trying to break the habit of getting off to slow starts each season under Norv Turner, really need to be missing their offense's biggest weapon for the start of the season....just to have to worry about him getting in trouble come playoff time again?

 

So, the Dolphins are in love with Jackson, huh?  I have an idea that A.J. Smith might like.  Why not offer Miami Vincent Jackson in exchange for Ted Ginn Jr. and a 2nd round draft pick?  Ginn would serve to replace Darren Sproles' kickoff returns, as well as providing WR depth.  In the offense the Dolphins run, it's not as if he'd be getting any more snaps than he'd get here.  The Chargers could then have Floyd/Naanee/Davis as the main WRs and let Buster return punts (which he's always had a knack for).  They'd also have three 2nd round picks (probably the best value/dollar round) to play with.  They could even use those picks to move up and get essentially any player they wanted.

I like both of these ideas.  Replace Merriman with Porter, add two picks.  Replace Jackson with Ginn, add another pick.  Save a ton of money in the process if you want to try to lure in Chester Taylor.  Isn't this essentially what the Patriots did during last years draft that had everybody raving about how smart they were?  Smart teams buy low and sell high, and that's exactly what the Chargers would be doing.  I think it's worth looking into.

2 recs  |  Comment 94 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Sorry to do this to you john but I hate deals.

I think if you can’t get a first round pick for Merriman you have to hold onto him and see if he can get back to his 07 staus now that he should be fully healed. Porter at best will be as good as Shawne was this year and at worst will be a complete bust, while Merriman at worst will put togeather a performance equal to his 09 performance and the sky is the limit at best (remember he is playing for a contract). I don’t think with a team that is this close can take a risk like that.

I also think you can get more than Ted Ginn and a 2nd rounder for VJ. You’re losing your #1 WR and one of the best wideouts in the NFL for a lateral move in the KR game and a player who may or may not be able to help you next year (2nd round pick).

The Chargers are built to win now and really only have a few holes to fill so there is really no need to stock pile draft picks.

by Steve (Grey Suit) on Feb 15, 2010 1:42 PM PST reply actions  

There’s never a reason to avoid stockpiling draft picks. In this situation, the reasons are above. The Chargers already have depth at WR, they have a ton of players that will be due contracts as soon as a CBA is figured out, etc. etc. Financially, it’s smarter to try to get the most out of their entire talented WR corps than spend a lot of money on the #1 guy.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

You cant trade a player thats not under contract. So when you say we could tender Merriman at a 1st(or 1st and 3rd) and then trade him for a 2nd and 5th. Thats not really reasonable.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 1:44 PM PST reply actions  

Can't you trade your rights to a player?

Kind of like we traded for the rights to Phillip Rivers?

by Steve (Grey Suit) on Feb 15, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

For unsigned rookies yes

But normally teams trade for the pick that results in the player. Because a rookie without a contract could always not sign, and re enter the draft.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

It would take

the Chargers, the player (and his agent), and team the player is going to, in order to work (for a high profile guy).
In effect the player would sign a multi year deal with him own team, that was negotiated by his soon to be new team. So the signing of the deal and trade are signed nearly at the same time.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

This is not really that uncommon.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

So you're assuming

That Merriman would hold out in this scenario? Because once he accepts the tender, then you can trade him and he has a contract.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Well what he could do is refuse to negotiate with the club that wants to trade for him (prior to or after the trade). So the club would essentially receive him with a one year deal. Basically making his value even less than it already is. Setting up the Al Davis donkey move where you have a guy with a one year deal who you have to franchise the following year.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I accept that as possible scenario

But I think it would be foolish on his part to refuse to exchange numbers on a multiyear deal, no matter what team is offering it.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea

Well we’ll its Lights we are talking about Wonko, how could he promote his energy drinks from the Canadian border?

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Also

I think realistically, I team willing to give a second rounder for a veteran player who is a couple years removed from his last great season is probably someone who is a playoff contender that is trying to catch lightning in a bottle. That sort of team would probably be okay with 1 year of Merriman plus a franchise year if he did well. Of course, even more likely is, like you said, that I team wouldn’t want to give up a 2nd round (especially one in the 33-59 range). A third rounder would seem like a better gamble.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea I agree

A third rounder would seem like a decent dice roll, even if he has a one year deal. Problem with that, is that move makes no sense for the Chargers. Considering he could play one year on the tender and have a great season, and net a nice comp in the process.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice job paying attention

He’s saying the Chargers could franchise him in 2011 and trade him if he did well in 2010.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Me too

Although its one more headache to tack on to all the other ones that will probably be a part of next offseason.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

It all depends on when the CBA gets done and a new cap strucutre is in place

That way you know what kind of flexibility you have with Floyd, Jackson, Clary, Cro, McNeill, Gates ect…

Thats why I think short of getting a first round pick for him you have to keep Merriman on the team in 2010 and see if he can be the dominate pass rusher he once was. The team may end up taking a big step back in 2011.

by Steve (Grey Suit) on Feb 15, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea

We might be watching the UFL in 2011

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Hopefully some of those headaches

will be taken care of before the 2011 off season. I’m optimistic McNiell and Gates get taken care of soon.

by Natrone Bomb on Feb 15, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Comp picks

Are mostly based on the salary the player gets in free agency. I guess its pretty safe to assume that if Merriman has a great 2010 he’ll get a big salary. The pick(s) wouldn’t come until the 2012 draft though.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I realize this Wonko

But the point I was trying to make. Is that if Merriman is worth a 3rd to another club (which we both thought resonable), thats not really worth it to the Chargers who could get a good year of production and a comp in the 2012 draft.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Dont want to lose VJ for Ginn

and a pick, in fact I don’t want to lose him at all.

Your love for, and hype of, Buster Davis is reaching “Gartrell” proportions.

by JeromeB on Feb 15, 2010 1:57 PM PST reply actions  

Davis is still talented

And John has me sipping a little Kool Aid on him. But, his upside has never been #1 WR. Trading VJ gives away our only guy with that kind of potential (not to mention that VJ has reached that potential already). I do worry about a suspension, but getting a kick returner and a second round pick hardly seems worth giving up one of the most productive WRs in the NFL, especially considering that this year’s draft isn’t exactly brimming with top WR talent (and next years won’t either) so chances are you won’t find another #1 WR caliber player for a few more years.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont know what to think about Buster

Dude has average talent written all over him. He should dress at least this year, and I know the Chargers want to give him a shot at kicks and or punts. (Assuming Sproles walks)
I wouldnt take anything less than a 1st and 3rd for both Big Mac and VJ, even if you told me VJ wont get a longterm deal.
 
If we received a second for Merriman, Id be happy with that. (because I doubt he’s worth it) And for the record count me as one of the people that would enjoy seeing Porter here in a rotational role if Merriman is moved that is.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I kindof assumed the Dolphins wouldn’t give up Ginn and a 1st, which is the only reason I said a 2nd rounder. Ginn still has ridiculous speed and potential. It’s not like he’s a total waste of space. His biggest issue is that he was asked to be a #1 when he has no business going up against top CBs. He’s a decent option at slow receiver.

Maybe it’s my preference for the spread offense, but bringing back everyone just seems silly to me. We all know Naanee has the talent to get more than 24 catches in a season. Buster Davis probably does too. And we’re not even factoring in Demetrius Byrd yet. I think, because of Rivers, that a WR group of Gates/Floyd/Naanee/Davis/Byrd/Ginn is just as good as the one we had in 2009. Will there be as many big plays? Probably not, but it’s not like the passing offense is going to fall off a cliff because Rivers is in charge.

So….let’s change the stakes. Ginn and a 1st rounder (12th). You can even change that to a 1st and a 3rd if you’d rather use that 1st rounder on somebody like Dez Bryant. Interested?

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

slot* receiver

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I share your hope

that Davis and maybe even Byrd can contribute at WR for the Chargers, but when you are a team that relies on the pass the way the Chargers due I think it is pretty risky to count on those two as being a big part of your WR corp next season. Your asking two guys who have never really played in the NFL to be factors.

by JeromeB on Feb 15, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

The Colts had a couple

of players step up and play well this season. And much like the Chargers the system does help a good WR look even better. But to assume that you can just plug and play anybody at WR and continue to have the same production, is a mistake to me.

If you really think it is just the system and having a great QB then maybe we should just sign some free agent WR for the league minimum and save a bunch of money.

by JeromeB on Feb 15, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

In my head, VJ is the team’s #2 receiver behind Gates. I understand the value that VJ has, but my point isn’t that he’s worthless. My point is to “buy low, sell high” and now would be the appropriate time with VJ. You’d get a ton in return and I really don’t think the passing game would suffer all that much.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 16, 2010 2:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Ginn and #12 overall sounds like a great trade for SD!

I don’t even think Miami would shy away from it. That #12 overall isn’t going to get Vincent Freakin’ Jackson, at least not this year. And for San Diego, that would maybe be Dan Williams, and leave the #28 pick available for a RB or trade down.

What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Feb 16, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Or if we got lucky

we could snag Spiller and Williams in the same round.

Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.

by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 16, 2010 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea

I like the thinking just dont like Ginn. Jr. Would be more interested in a first and next years 2nd, or something like that.

by AirNorval on Feb 16, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

That's fine

I’m always a fan of former 1st rounders that were put in bad situations. If he was drafted by the Colts instead of the Dolphins, I think he would’ve made a fantastic #2 receiver. Asking him to be a #1, and never really pairing him with a good QB (or at least one that could consistently throw downfield to take advantage of his speed), seems like it may have been the biggest hindrance to his success. Just my two cents.

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22

by John Gennaro on Feb 16, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Clark and Wayne

Two keys to that offense. Collie and Garcon are the role players.

by SJO on Feb 17, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

But why not sign him long term...we can afford it?

You don’t just give away a player like Jackson to stock some draft picks. It’s like the Colts trading Reggie Wayne…what the hell for?

by SJO on Feb 17, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Cro

IMO is the most likely to be traded for a couple of reasons.

Good value
One year left
Not AJs BFF
Good Corner Class in the 2010 draft
Depth

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:27 PM PST reply actions  

Since you brought it up

Where did this idea that A.J. doesn’t like Cro come up? I hear people say that, but it doesn’t really come from sources and obviously not the man himself. I’m about 80% inclined to just think it is some internet rumor that gained more traction after Cro’s misplay in the Jets playoff game. Anyone out there care to convince me otherwise?

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Well Ill take a shot

Cro had a insane season his 2nd year I think. And AJ doesnt even negotiate with him. This is the same GM that paid Tucker (albeit alot less) after a couple games.

Oh and AJ let Acee slip the rumor out that he’s looking to move him, that in itself must mean they arent best friends.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

When

Has A.J. ever given a player that was 3 years removed from (restricted or unrestricted) free agency an extension? That doesn’t convince me even a little.

Jyles Tucker (or Matt Wilhelm or Clinton Hart or Steve Gregory) was not a starter and were signed to extensions with the thought that if they became starters their contracts would look cheap. This was not the case with Cro. That would have been a case of buying high on him whereas the others were buying low.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

When has AJ given a player a contract after they’ve had problems with the law?

Someone should list all the players that have received 2nd contracts from AJ. I wonder if their would be a single police arrest in the group.

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Shaun Phillips

Was arrested in 2006, signed a contract extension in 2007.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice

I do think the Chargers would like Cason to get a shot at getting more reps though. Do you disagree, that Cro is the most likely to be moved?

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I think there is a ~10% chance that Cro will be traded

I’m not sure that I think he’ll be traded any more than another other player at or near the end of their deal. I don’t think the Chargers would trade a player under contract to help get another player playing time. I think A.J. is interesting in fielding the best team possible. “Stack ’em up 3 deep” and what not.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Off the top of my head: Second Contracts

LaDanian Tomlinson
Mike Scifres
Nate Kaeding
Phillip Rivers
Billy Volek
Antonio Gates
Brandon Manumaleuna
Kris Dielman
Nick Hardwick
Shane Olivea
Lorenzo Neal
Luis Castillo
Jamal Williams
Jacques Cesaire
Ryon Bingham
Matt Wilhem
Shaun Phillips
Stephen Cooper
Jyles Tucker
Quentin Jammer
Steve Gregory
Clinton Hart
Jerry Wilson

I do not recall any specific arrests of any of those players prior to signing the contract, with the exception of Phillips.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel like that’s something Acee has mentioned as a side-note to the “Why Smith doesn’t like Merriman” discussion. Could be wrong though, because a quick search turned up nothing.

Even if AJ wasn’t happy with Cromartie’s 2008, Antonio’s 2009 probably opened his eyes a little bit. I still think he gets traded though because he’s worth a heck of a lot more on the trade market than Cason, when you can make the argument that the drop-off with Cason taking that outside CB spot wouldn’t be very much.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know about Cro and AJ's BFF status

The only problem is that they do not have a 2nd round pick this year and I doubt they would give up a first rounder for him.

by Steve (Grey Suit) on Feb 15, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

oops should have said

I think the Titans would go after Cro hard if he was put on the trading block but the only problem is that they do not have a 2nd round pick this year and I doubt they would give up a first rounder for him.

by Steve (Grey Suit) on Feb 15, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmm

Do you think a team would really want to give up a 2nd rounder to get a second corner, because Cro would be the second best CB on the team after Finnegan. I would think a team willing to give up a lot to get Cro would be looking for a #1 CB, but I could be wrong.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

when your in a division with Peyton Manning

and are relying on your running game a D to win, yes.

by Steve (Grey Suit) on Feb 15, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Everything I've heard

Has Cro starting 2010 in either San Diego or Atlanta. However, Atlanta also doesn’t have a 2nd rounder because of the Tony Gonzalez trade.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Ravens, Steelers, and Cleveland could garner interest

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't possible imagine

The Steelers making a trade like that. Especially, given that they undervalue the CB position to begin with, secondly because I don’t recall them every making a trade to acquire an established NFL player and thirdly because they tend to hold on to their draft picks.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 15, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

That's an inappropriate use of the word "reported"

There is nothing “reported” in that article. It’s blatant speculation and I’m sure the author would admit as much.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 16, 2010 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah well

my appropriate use of the word apparently should have implied just that

by AirNorval on Feb 16, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Nope, it didn't

Apparently implies that it was a report, not that it wasn’t.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 17, 2010 1:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Cro will get a 1st-round tender.

If some team wants him, AJ will let them sign him.

What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Feb 16, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Cro

Is still under contract in 2010

by AirNorval on Feb 16, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22

by John Gennaro on Feb 16, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

that being said

if we were to trade Cro, I agree that we would not accept less than a #1

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Feb 16, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

win now?

Probably why I am not a GM, but this team seems close. So pulling a finesse that VJ’s success is all Rivers, or mostly, scares me. We are pass-first team, or should be if Norv would let go of the run, and having good receivers is important. Maybe we can swap out and be OK, but a little nervous.

I know Merriman has not produced since his injury, but we need a better pash rush, so jettisoning him also makes me nervous.

by jayman66 on Feb 15, 2010 4:00 PM PST reply actions  

I’m 100% against the “Win Now” philosophy that many fans have. I would much rather take my chances that I’m going to win the Super Bowl if I build a team that can make the playoffs every season than try to put everything on the line for one season. So many things can go wrong in that second scenario: Injuries, luck, Hochuli, etc.

While you’re putting all your money on 00, AJ Smith is playing $20 a hand blackjack and is up a couple thousand bucks.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 15, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

You gotta play 25$ hands, so you get silver dollars when you get blackjack

by AirNorval on Feb 15, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Keeping VJ is "win now", "win later" to me

He is a top young WR, I don’t think keeping him hurts the Chargers down the road.

Maybe if AJ Smith keeps kicking ass on his $20 a hand blackjack he can buy a Super Bowl trophy in a few years. (just joking I am happy with the job AJ is doing).

by JeromeB on Feb 15, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats a good idea

Malcolm floyd doesn’t make mistakes at all I can’t even remember him being seen making a mistakes.

Reppin SD (Z-G)

by BFTB_zach on Feb 15, 2010 7:22 PM PST reply actions  

The block in the back

that took away VJ’s catch against the Jets jumps to mind as a huge game changing mistake.

by JeromeB on Feb 15, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

typical mistakes

as a receiver he doesn’t ever get me frustrated with mistakes. Does he get u frustrated?

Reppin SD (Z-G)

by BFTB_zach on Feb 15, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

No he doesn't

Floyd has become a much better player than I ever thought he could. I am very happy with him being the #2 WR.

by JeromeB on Feb 16, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I like the move as far as Merriman/Porter is concerned..

Sorry to say this John, but the Jackson/Ginn Jr. deal is not a good idea. You’d be giving up our #1 WR and a top 10 WR in the game, for a kick returner who can’t catch and is a #4 WR on this Chargers team. The combination of VJ and Floyd gives other teams nightmares. Re-sign VJ. Also, all this talk of Jackson’s off the field incidents, he really doesnt seem to be a bad guy. The guy had a scholarship offer to Columbia and a GPA of like 4.25 in high school/college. Maybe I’m just gullable, but I think he won’t be a problem in the future.

by zabosox33 on Feb 15, 2010 7:32 PM PST reply actions  

Floyd’s not going be around forever. As a matter of fact, due to his age, he’s probably never going to get a long-term deal in Sa Diego. So if your argument is “Keep VJ because him & Floyd are the best WR tandem in the league”, that will only last another year or two at best.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Feb 16, 2010 2:23 AM PST up reply actions  

thats a pretty weak arguement

Saying a player isn’t going to be around forever? Cmon.. I understand he’s not 22 anymore. My arguement really isn’t keep them both bc they’re the best tandem, my arguement is “Why mess with something that obviously worked excellent last year”.

by zabosox33 on Feb 16, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Because VJ is an off-the-field problem that will miss some games this year and I don’t feel secure investing a ton of money in him. I’d rather just start developing the young guys that we’ll need in a few years when Floyd and Gates start getting a little long in the tooth.

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22

by John Gennaro on Feb 17, 2010 4:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm just not comfortable

trading VJ. Phil is great, but it goes both ways; there have been plenty of times VJ made the play on a less than perfect ball. I trust Floyd to fight more, I think, but not to be the #1 guy. Jackson is a lot of the reason the other guys can get open. Gates is the rest. Losing VJ would take this offense down a peg. If we have such depth, let’s lose somebody else.

I’m also concerned that Merriman will be great next year and we’ll have lost him, but I’m all for getting value while we can and if we could turn around and get Jamal’s eventual replacement I think it’s worth it. We can manufacture pass rush if we have a high quality NT. I think that’s a big part of what was missing this year.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Cro leave, though Cason isn’t totally proven and lack of a viable backup for the corners concerns me.

by aesimpleton on Feb 15, 2010 8:02 PM PST reply actions  

Merriman needs to prove himself

I think he should get a 1st rd tender. He has shown to be dominant, and he draws attention even when not 100%. Anyone remember 2008, nobody respected anything about the Chargers D? VJ has made a few mistakes, true. He might get a one game suspension, that isn’t a reason to move on. Short term loss, long term gain. Resign VJ. Bring in Porter one a 1 yr deal. He adds attitude and swagger, if nothing else. We all now the D could use someone to get in Cro’s face. I would totally go for the trade rumor of Cro for Tashard Choice from Dallas. Probably just a rumor, but Choice is good.

by glamisdave on Feb 15, 2010 9:49 PM PST reply actions  

You're missing a few points.

Joey Porter is only good in pass rushing. He’s terrible in run support. Merriman is as good as Porter and a half in run support. Plus, he had a bad year, so a mega big contract won’t be an option to keep him. And will Porter get one year? two? He’s not a good option for the future. The running game won’t be much better next year. Especially if LT is gone. Vincent Jackson is a priority. You can’t just let someone like him waltz away to another team. First, we need to see what happens with his legal troubles. If it becomes a crap heap, let him go. If all is resolved and Jackson has in his contract something about behavior, then he needs to stay.

by Superduperboltman on Feb 16, 2010 7:51 AM PST reply actions  

Trade VJ for Ginn and a 2nd pick? That’s really giving away the farm or do you think AJ can find another one from nowhere again? Ginn is about as worthless as they come, so it’s a throw away body for the Phins and they get rid of his contract and they really only give up a 2nd for one of the best WR in the game today. Are you sure you’re not writing for the Dolphins blog?!?!?! And Buster, poor Buster….3 years and rarely seen. What makes anyone think he’s suddenly more durable than he’s shown so far. Who cares if you have all the ability in the world if you can never play? There’s very little sadder than unrealized potential, and that’s Buster.
I think you can trade Merriman, because somebody is out there who probably thinks he’ll come back strong next year. I’m not so sure. I think the burst he had (and that’s a big HAD) to turn the corner on the blocker is gone. Maybe it comes back next year, maybe not, but I bet AJ doesn’t take that gamble especially if he can get some decent picks for him.
But Porter? His mouth far outshines his ability any more. No thanks.

by philiprules on Feb 16, 2010 4:54 PM PST reply actions  

You’re gonna need to prove to me that “Ginn is about as worthless as they come”.

I believe Buster will be more durable for his time off last year, plus he’s around the age where he could finally have a fully-matured body. Explain to me how Floyd went from injury-prone to suddenly playing an entire season last year.

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22

by John Gennaro on Feb 17, 2010 4:28 AM PST up reply actions  

That’s some logic. Because Floyd comes back from injuries, Buster will to? Really? At least Floyd played, sometimes hurt. Buster, has he even been on the field beyond pre-season? And we’re not talking teenagers here. He came out of college at what 21-22? Now at 25 his body is suddenly matured. PULLLEASE. Some guys just cannot withstand the punishment of the NFL and from all appearences Buster is one of those guys.
Ginn….3 yrs, 128 rec (only 38 last yr), 5 TDs. He’s small and gets pushed around by physical corners, doesn’t block worth beans. Yeah, that’s a replacement for VJ.

by philiprules on Feb 17, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Jackson > Ginn

Ginn/Naanee/Davis/Byrd = Jackson

Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.

by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 17, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you better check your math on that one

None of those players has the upside that even comes close to Jackson (with the possible exception of pre-car-accident Byrd, but whether that upside is even realizable at this point is in question). So even though they are all talented players, you’ll never actually replace Jackson’s abilities on the field unless you plan to make a hybrid out of all them using only their best qualities.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 17, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I dispute that!

Byrd is a question mark.
Ginn is fast as hell. Check.
Buster is fast as hell with good hands. Check.
Legs is fast as hell with good hands, size, and strength. We have a winner!

Given enough in return, I would not at all hesistate to pull the trigger on a deal for VJ. If the trade in question included a top-notch pick (or Ronnie Brown) I would any day of the week.

Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.

by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 17, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Legs is not the blocker that VJ. Legs is not the jumper VJ is. Legs doesn’t not have the route running capabilities. Legs does not have the same catching ability. And he’s shorter.

So far, the plays we have seen run successfully are mainly bubble screens and short crossing routes. Projecting that minimal success to #1 WR success is a big, big leap.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 17, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Receivers are nice, but they're overvalued.

I’d be happy to see Jackson go for a #10-ish draft pick plus the corresponding 3rd-rounder. We’d get two nice bites at the RB crop, a NT of the future, and still have a first-round pick and four later ones left, starting at #91. And in exchange, we’d downgrade slightly in the receiving corps. Last I checked, we have King Laserface: some way, somehow, I’m not all that worried.

What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Feb 17, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Last a lot more in return

Than what was being discussed here.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Feb 17, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Better get some CRAZY good value in the event that we trade Jackson.

Porter I think would be a no-no. He’s every bit AS GOOD AS Merriman, but not better. We’d be better served throwing all that money at Peppers or Dansby instead.

As for trading Jackson for Ginn and a 12th-overall pick… this is very intriguing. If the team pulls the trigger they could find themselves scrambling on draft day. I wouldn’t worry for our recieving corps— it would still be pretty deep and talented— but what do you use that #12 pick on? It would likely be a reach for Williams or Cody, McCoy and Suh would be off the board and likely Spiller as well (although he could concievably slide down there).

So what to do… BPA? Reach on your planned first rounder? Or trade down?

Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.

by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 16, 2010 5:34 PM PST reply actions  

My argument wasn’t that Porter was an upgrade. It was that we could (essentially) trade Merriman away for Porter (FA) and get some good draft picks in return.

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk, with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet-proof vest, singing 'My, my, my, how the time does fly when you know you're going to die by the end of the night.'" - Catch 22

by John Gennaro on Feb 17, 2010 4:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Trading VJ

at this point in time is ridiculous. We may be letting both LT and Sproles go, messing around with the WR corps while changing the backfield is highly unadvisable, and quite frankly a dumb idea.

I’m not keen on trading either Cromartie. Cromartie does a very respectable job in coverage and we have more glaring holes to fill on our roster than wasting another high pick on and developing a corner.

Merriman if we can get a 1st I’d do that in an instant. A second and a fifth, I’d do that too. I like Merriman, but he is much more easily replaceable.

by Bluelightning on Feb 17, 2010 9:54 AM PST reply actions  

Cromartie does a very respectable job in coverage

He’s also one of the leading causes of opponent YAC.

and we have more glaring holes to fill on our roster than wasting another high pick on and developing a corner.

Nobody’s saying we draft a corner high. Personally, I would look at a lower-rounder such as Akwasi Owusu-Ansah (Indiana-PA) or Myron Lewis (Vanderbilt). Or we work the waiver wire for UDFAs or guys looking for a first (or second) chance.

Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.

by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 17, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Draft

RB
NT
DE
ILB
S
OL
TE

Are greater positions of need. Get a plan to upgrade those positions, then go back and look at a possible Cromartie trade. But don’t try and trade Cromartie before. You cant just sign a scrub corner in the later rounds or UFA and expect him to perform. Carries too huge a risk. We have a known in Cromartie, why give him away so we can gamble on another corner? It doesnt make sense. And if Jammer goes down we would have Cason and who as our starting CBs? Jammer will be 31 next year. I somewhat doubt he finishes the season healthy from start to finish.

by Bluelightning on Feb 17, 2010 11:22 AM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

E-mail: boltsfromtheblue@gmail.com
Call or Txt: 760-515-BFTB (2382)
Start posting about the Chargers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Picture_3_small
Ryan Mathews
Boltman_small
Merriman’s chances of being a Charger in 2011…
Afc-west-chargers-08_small
is PSYCH the coolest show ever?
Small
The World Championship Of Fantasy Football
Small
Chargers by the (Jersey) Numbers: #70
Boltman_small
"One of these teams is not like the others..." and other myths
Picture_3_small
Roy Williams?
Meth_ghost_and_rae_the_wu-massacre_method_man_ghostface_killah_raekwon_the_chef_2010_small
Philip Rivers #17 on S.I.'s "The 50 highest-earning American athletes"
Vt_thumb_small
Mrs. Buck is weakening
Dobbins_small
Favorite/Least Favorite Current Charger?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Washington Redskins defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth signs autographs during the NFL football team's training camp and fan appreciation day, Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009, at Redskins Park in Ashburn, Va. (AP Photo/Nick Wass) +4 updates

NFL Training Camps News: Albert Haynesworth Fails Conditioning Test For Second Day In A Row

Trainers arrive to assist as Dallas Cowboys wide receiver Dez Bryant reacts while grabbing his right ankle following a play at afternoon practice at Cowboys training camp Friday, July 30, 2010, in San Antonio. Bryant, who was attempting to grab a pass, got tangled up with cornerback Orlando Scandrick. (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez) +1 updates

Dez Bryant To Miss 4-6 Weeks With High Ankle Sprain

Indianapolis Colts tight end Dallas Clark is tied up be Baltimore Ravens cornerback Domonique Foxworth during the first quarter of NFL divisional football playoff game, Saturday, Jan. 16, 2010 in Indianapolis. (AP Photo/Darron Cummings)

Ravens Cornerback Domonique Foxworth Tears ACL, Out For Season With Injury

More from SBNation.com >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation


Managing Editor

Paddlin_small John Gennaro

Assistant Editors

Pomeranian_of_war_small Richard Wade

Me_isight_small creanium

Columnists

Dontpanic_small Wonko

Graphic Designer

Johnnycashsleeve_small QuesaDiaz