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Use Your Brain: Root Against the Chargers

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Wonko: Is the Final Chargers Game Meaningless?

creanium: The difference between winning and losing

This has already been touched on in the post and comment listed above, but there seems to be too many Chargers fans wrapped up in the idea that winning this final game would be good for the team. So, in lieu of a game preview post this week, I will play the bad guy and tell you why it's dumb to root for the Chargers on Sunday.

Reasons to Play to Lose:

  • The San Diego Chargers would get a higher draft pick in each round of the 2011 NFL Draft. This could only help in keeping the roster stocked with a high level of talent.
  • The Denver Broncos would get a lower draft pick in each round of the 2011 NFL Draft.
  • As Wonko clearly outlined, a Chargers loss and a Raiders win makes the Chargers 2011 schedule easier. Instead of facing the Jaguars and Ravens (probably), the Chargers would face the Texans or Titans and the Browns or Bengals.
  • Norv Turner could put in the guys that are down on the depth chart (Seyi Ajirotutu, Brandon Lang, Vaughn Martin, Cam Thomas, Darrell Stuckey, etc.) and give them some on-field experience. If they win the game, so be it, but at least he would not be risking injury to his stars for a meaningless victory.
  • On the same note, Philip Rivers is the whole team and there's no young QB waiting in the wings. Having what happened to Drew Brees happen to him would absolutely decimate the team.....for no reason at all. Except pride, and I happen to come from the Marsellus Wallace school of thought on pride ("F**k pride.").

Star-divide

What possible reason is there to trot Rivers, Ryan Mathews, Vincent Jackson and company to try and beat the Broncos? Pride is silly. The only difference I see in a 9-7 season and an 8-8 season is better draft position. Do you think the Broncos are going to gain some great advantage next season by beating up on Billy Volek and a bunch of rookies? 

Plain and simple, this is a pre-season game in which the stars don't need to work off the rust. Actually, it's better if they don't risk it. And the team that loses gets rewarded with a better draft and an easier schedule next year. Doesn't that seem to say that whoever loses the game....wins?

Think about it, teams play each week of the season to jockey for a better position in the standings and eventually a better position in the playoffs. Well, the Chargers have been eliminated from the playoffs and playing for 2nd place in the division instead of 3rd should be meaningless for a team that has won the division 5 out of the last 7 seasons. At that point, the team is playing pass/fail with "Did we win the division?" as the determining factor on the success of the season.

On that grading scale, this season has been a failure. That much can not be changed. It is time to start jockeying for a more advantageous position for future success, namely in 2011. It seems like losing the game, or at least resting the starters, would be the smart first step to take towards the goal. If you're rooting for the Chargers to win this weekend, you're rooting for them to have a harder road back to the top of the division in the future.

Comment 64 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Brees was ready to go by the start of the following season (just for a different team) so if it comes to “Having what happened to Drew Brees happen to” Rivers, then the Chargers would probably be fine. I’d just prefer that El Capitan go to the Pro Bowl, spend more time with his family (instead of re-habbing) and be available for all the offseason stuff.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 30, 2010 1:57 PM PST reply actions  

if it comes to "Having what happened to Drew Brees happen to" Rivers, then the Chargers would probably be fine.

You do understand that not everybody that tears their shoulder to shreds is ready to play 8 months later, right? That Brees was only able to do that by way of Tebow’s enormous generosity? Oh, wait, maybe this was a way for you to get me to compliment the man. You sly bastard.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Dec 30, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Well

I’m counting the “tears their shoulder to shreds is ready to play 8 months later” as parting “Having what happened to Drew Brees happen to” Rivers. I guess you were not.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 30, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Also

I disagree on Ryan Mathews. This is a great opportunity with live game action to challenge him with all the things that he missed out on because the coaches were limiting his exposure. Feeling what its like to carry twenty times and pass protect on 3rd and long will be good experiences for him. He needs this game.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 30, 2010 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

Our defense

Isn’t exactly one to use as a measuring stick for running back success. We will pretty much give it up to anyone that wants to run the ball on us.

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Dec 30, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, he needs experience running against bad defenses too.

Much as teams try to rid themselves of these abominations, they seem to persist somewhere in the league year-to-year.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 30, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Dec 30, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Concur

play all the rooks regardless of draft status (or undrafted)…build for the future…need moar Mathews

by jkvandal on Dec 30, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Mentalities Like This

Would contribute to the Chargers’ not being able to take the next step. If you’re playing a game, you should play hard and you should try to win. If this team was 3-12, they’d be playing to win this week. So the fact that they’re “only 8-7” and stuck in the middle doesn’t mean that they should go ahead and lose the game.

Attitudes like that are probably why the team got stuck in the middle in the first place.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Dec 30, 2010 2:37 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Please no

As Richard was alluding to, it’s not smart to risk success in the future for a meaningless game in the present. It’s called cutting your losses. This issue seems pretty straight forward to me…

by Bolt Deck on Dec 30, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Well hell, I am a Denver fan and that made me laugh.

Denver’s DLine hasn’t exactly done much damage to any qb this season. Just sayin’. But who knows? Tebow has sparked a few of our players and then there is the payback factor as well. I’m looking for a good game. A close game. That’sa good way for both teams to end the season. BTW, a lot of MHR bloggers have suggested that it would be better for Denver to lose the rest of this seasons games before the game 16 for better draft picks. That’s ridiculous! No team would coach that type of game plan. We will try our best to win on Jan. 2nd. See you there Chargers!

We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!

by SSinSD on Dec 30, 2010 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Hasn't Denver already clinched last in the AFCW?

Win or lose, it doesn’t matter to them.
Wouldn’t it be beneficial to the interim head coach if he beat San Diego? It could be an audition for a full-time job either there or somewhere else.
I can only think of reasons why Denver should win this game.

by Lancers46 on Dec 30, 2010 3:23 PM PST reply actions  

Draft position for them depends on how they stack up against teams from other divisions

And right now, if they win one more game they move out of a 5 team tie (or close to that) and would move down by no less than a few picks in every round.

Yes, Denver has locked up the basement of the division. But if they win they stand to worsen their drafting position.

formerly riversformvp

by Alex Bourque on Dec 30, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Denver losing would help draft position...

but, every Bronco (excepting just a small number) and every Bronco coach brought in by McDaniels are basically interim players auditioning for employment from all 32 teams. Even Tebow has to prove himself since Denver may be in a postion to get Andrew Luck (who Elway, our soon to be new Executive Vice President of Job Titles That Make Him Seem Even More Important has a man-crush on).

Denver first.

by margabelle on Dec 31, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

If you don't have a man crush on Andrew Luck

Then there is something wrong with you.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 31, 2010 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

What if you're a woman?

queen of the rec fairies (http://spunc.com.au/members/hunter/product/9780980517965/)

by Aussie fan on Dec 31, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

well played.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 1, 2011 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Hoping your team loses

is anathema to fanhood. If you don’t witness/pull for a win then what’s the point?

If the Chargers get eliminated in week 12 next year do we give Philip the rest of the year off?

The Chargers have already proven (this year) that having an easy schedule doesn’t really agree with them.Maybe a tough schedule would actually prepare them for a legitimate post-season run.

RE: rooting for a better draft position. I can’t say I trust AJ to do that much with it.

Go Bolts! No injuries.

by AIChief on Dec 30, 2010 3:33 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

So because you don't trust AJ to make a good selection,

You’d rather have a lower pick? If you don’t trust him to make a good selection, it doesn’t matter where we pick, because he’ll screw it up anyway. Why not have a better pool of players to choose from? Wouldn’t that reduce the chance that he makes a bad pick? I suppose it increases the chances he reaches for a player. Still I think it’s a silly reason to hope for a worse pick, but that’s just me.

by Bolt Deck on Dec 30, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't say that.

I’m not concerned with the pick. The pick will be what the pick will be. Whether it’s higher or lower time has proven that we have no idea what AJ will do with it.

I’m not a GM. I’m a fan. As a fan I would like to see the Chargers win. I’d prefer it not to be Pyrrhic victory but whatever… losses suck.

If they lose then I can say, “Well at least they get a higher draft pick. Hope AJ changes the trend.”

by AIChief on Dec 30, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm hoping my team wins

By scoring less points than their opponent on Sunday.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 30, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

If a coach doesnt try to win

that to me is horrible. i know about all the draft stuff, but when you dont play to win, thats when you need to stop coaching. im personally just not for it.

by cameronm on Dec 30, 2010 4:44 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Rec.

It’s unacceptable, and proof that a team is playing to lose should be punished with lost draft picks or even forfeited games in the next season.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 30, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think they'll be "playing to lose"

They should, however, treat it like a preseason game. There is no need to have the 1st team out there all game when the back-ups need experience. The last thing we need is another play where Rivers tries to make a tackle (like in preseason) and have something crazy happen like him injury his shoulder. We all know Rivers is too much of a gamer to let a return go back for a TD if he can stop it.

formerly riversformvp

by Alex Bourque on Dec 30, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

the article doesn't really say "they shouldnt try hard as a team"

the title is “root against them” and i can’t do that.

"I suggest more bike" ~KSK

drinkerswithawritingproblem.blogspot.com

by justdave on Dec 30, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

This thread kinda says

“If we lose, we weren’t trying.” I just hope your team doesn’t come out with the same attitude.

I could care less about draft position. I want my team to win regardless of the situation. The same sentiment is being shared by some over at MHR, about draft position etc. The fact is, and no offense to you guys posting here whatsoever, but I hate your team because we are division rivals (as I’m sure you probably hate the Broncos, but you should probably love us, since we pretty much have guaranteed two wins for you guys the past few years).

 I would love to see that trend stop finally, as I’m sure you guys would love to keep it going. I just want to see how our rookie quarterback plays against a team that actually has some talent on it. Houston has a few good pieces, but it was hard to effectively judge anything because they are also a terrible team.

I am anticipating a pretty good game, to be quite honest. Win or lose, I hope it’s not a blow out either way, it’s our teams’ respective last games of the year and it would be nice to end the year in a nail biter. See ya’ll Sunday!

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Dec 30, 2010 4:54 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Actually, this thread kinda says

If we win we weren’t trying hard enough.

I’d like us to dominate the game with our b-graders and up-and-comers, and then accidentally stuff up on special-teams or something like that which might unfortunately gift-wrap your mob the win…

queen of the rec fairies (http://spunc.com.au/members/hunter/product/9780980517965/)

by Aussie fan on Dec 30, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Well played, sir. Well played.

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Dec 30, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see the Chargers winning even if they "try".

They have lost to other teams comparable to Denver this year when they had every reason to be motivated. What motivates them for this game? Weather report is 33F high and 11F low for Sunday. This loss is in the bag.

by bhound56 on Dec 30, 2010 6:13 PM PST reply actions  

They beat the Broncos once already. Also the Broncos are an exceptionally bad team.

Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo

by Richard Wade on Jan 2, 2011 1:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I will not watch the game and spend some time with my family instead.

I figure we win either way (on the field on Sunday or in the draft/strength of schedule next season).

Jesus, I still can not believe the season ended up like this. It’s a bad dream right??

Just for sh*ts and giggles someone should re post the preseason thread where people were making their predictions. I remember plenty of 14-2 and 12-4 etc.

by CFCNole on Dec 30, 2010 6:57 PM PST reply actions  

this is my idea on this

i think they should sit their starters, let the guys that need playing time and experience play, etc.

but i will never, ever root for them to lose. i can’t do it.

re: a better draft pick – is the difference between 16 and 18 really worth rooting for them to lose? not to me. most mid first round talent is the same level, in my opinion. maybe the top 5 or 6 guys are way better than everyone else, but i think the rest of the first round really just depends on your need.

"I suggest more bike" ~KSK

drinkerswithawritingproblem.blogspot.com

by justdave on Dec 30, 2010 7:23 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Just don't get Rivers hurt.

Playing to win with Volek? That’s acceptable. Playing to lose? Does not compute. There is no acceptable circumstance where a team should ever allow itself to play to lose.

An autumn Sunday,
Perched in front of the big screen,
Beer in white knuckles.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 30, 2010 7:24 PM PST reply actions  

Well I wouldn't want to see my guys win against a team that didn't try!

We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!

by SSinSD on Dec 30, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I view this game as a preseason game

not much to be played for, and expect to see a lot of inexperienced players out there getting some playing time and auditioning for their jobs next season…

by jkvandal on Dec 30, 2010 8:18 PM PST reply actions  

oh yeah

and like a preseason game it doesn’t really matter if you win or lose

by jkvandal on Dec 30, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions  

This team has tried

the no need to go all out for the win unless we really need it approach for a while now and its not working. I think every time a team takes the field they need to be playing to win. Lets not wait until week 9 next season to say “shit we are in a big hole with our backs against the wall we better start really trying now”. How about taking a new approach and trying to kick the crap out of the other team each and every week, starting now.

I don’t think its that big a deal if they draft a few spots lower, and I am not that worried about who they play next season. The Chargers have enough talent that if they play well they should be able to make the play offs next season, even if they play a second place schedule.

by JeromeB on Jan 1, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Every fan of every team should read this.

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Jan 2, 2011 12:19 AM PST up reply actions  

i agree with this

"I suggest more bike" ~KSK

drinkerswithawritingproblem.blogspot.com

by justdave on Jan 2, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

disagree

wouldnt you want the chargers to face the best competition beat them and be a better teamjohn you blow my mind why would you want a weak schedule i want the chargers to be a championship caliber team..that doesnt happen by playing a weaker schedule..play good teams + beat good teams= superbowl.. remember 13-3?? then one and done?? that should never happen again.. look at the after math
                                                                                                                         76oh! charger
                                                                                                                                 =0)

by vasquez_kristopher on Dec 30, 2010 8:39 PM PST reply actions  

The over emotional mental midgets will disagree with this article….but the smart fans know winning this game only hurts our offseason prospects.

by SDERA on Dec 30, 2010 11:22 PM PST reply actions  

Pay per game

I like to see pay base on game performance for players and the winning team gets
70% of the fans attendance. I’ll bet we will see better performance in every game.

by Olddiehard on Dec 30, 2010 11:57 PM PST reply actions  

I like it!

Maybe Cromartie would have actually tackled somebody, particularly one Jet RB that cost us the season last year.

by Robo65 on Dec 31, 2010 7:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually

Players do get more money the more playoff games they play. So, Cromartie missing that tackle to lose the game did keep money out of his wallet.

The National League West title was all but a lock,
Then they lost 10 in a row, ‘twas like a punch in the jock!

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Dec 31, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I could give a crap

Winning or losing won’t noticeably affect how we approach next year.

AJ has proven he will make whatever dumbass move he needs to in order to get the player that he’s targeted in the draft, so what real difference is a position or 2?

I want no injuries & evaluation of guys who may be on the bubble. See who looks to be a good possibility at upgrading a weakness & move on into draft mode.

Pride goeth before a fall.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Dec 31, 2010 6:55 AM PST reply actions  

in other words

why give AJ more ammunition to shoot himself in the foot.

The peanut gallery has spoken!!!

by gatesoftds on Dec 31, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

PLAY TO WIN

 a loss AND a raider win drops us into 3rd…. and i for one cant live with that

"i'm not inclined to resign to maturity"...PSYCH theme

by $#%@ eli and his daddy on Dec 31, 2010 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

I'm inclined to agree.
Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps.

There’s no reason to play this game any different than the final game last year.

by Rich Garcia's defective eyes on Jan 2, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I hope they play to win it

Sure the ultimate goal each year is to win the championship. But I just don’t buy sitting your starters and not trying to win as soon as that goal is not reachable. This team already knows how to play without any fire they don’t need to practice.

If we (the Chargers) really want to look at some long term goals maybe we should go 0-16 the next couple years and get some really good draft picks. Then the third year we would be playing a 4th place schedule and we could really kick some ass.

by JeromeB on Jan 1, 2011 2:07 PM PST reply actions  

Stand up comic?

No? You’ve found a new calling, friend.

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Jan 2, 2011 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Wait? I'm confused.

How does it matter who any of us root for?

sorry. I’ll get over it once baseball starts. sigh’

by koloco9 on Jan 1, 2011 10:16 PM PST reply actions  

What's baseball

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Jan 2, 2011 12:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Bullcrap

You play to win the game.

Always.

That doesn’t mean as a franchise you take unnecessary risks. If a player is marginally injured this week…he sits.

If the offensive line begins to hemorrhage, you sit Rivers…but he plays as long as the team can win.

You give some backups more opportunities (like Ajirotuto) to see what they can do.

But under no circumstances do you play to lose, and under no circumstances will I root for the Chargers to lose (though it can be argued that Norv has coached to lose since he took the helm).

There is not a huge enought draft position difference…especially in light of AJ’s recent draft history…to justify wanting us to tank this game.

There is not enough difference in next years potential schedule to warrant wanting an easier schedule next year (especially since we lost THIS year to Seattle, St. Louis, Cincinnati and twice to Oakland). If going from a 2nd to a 3rd place schedule means the difference between getting into the playoffs and not, then we won’t be deserving of a playoff spot anyway.

by Nigel on Jan 2, 2011 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

Completely agree.

Moreover, hoping to lose to jockey for position can backfire.

Sometimes in the NBA, a team heading into the play-offs might get what seems to be a more favorable match-up by losing their last game or two and finish with a lower seed: be careful what you wish for, because the so-called “better” match-up might not actually be one by the time you get there.

You play to win, and let the chips fall. Maybe the Titans or Texans are better than the Jags next year…. Maybe the week we happen to play the Jets or the Ravens, Flacco or Sanchez (or some other key player) is out that week, giving us an advantage…. You simply do NOT hope not to win to avoid a particular match-up.

(And, yes, you do sit people who are injured in a game which has no playoff implications….)

by jctess on Jan 3, 2011 1:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Charger help

Well in my way of looking at this problem in San Diego is this,as long as Norv Turner is there San Diego Chargers will remain what they are,in short losers,i hate to say that since i have been a fan for over 30 yrs,thats right 30 years.
Since the boss has said Norv Turner and A.J. will stay,then the only way things are going to change is nobody goes to the games!it seems its all about money,they seen satisfied as long as they finish over .500,and the fans show up with the money there happy,well here is a clue,take the money away,stop going to the games,i would lay money on it things will change quickly,at least i hope so!.
As far as this last game goes,who cares,they could get the #1 pick in the draft it wouldn’t matter until the underlying problems are corrected.
Well for what ever its worth thats how i feel about the San Diego Chargers.

by GaryE on Jan 2, 2011 2:03 PM PST reply actions  

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