Superduperboltman's D-line analysis Week 9: Chargers at Texans
via static.nfl.com
Coming out of a Rough game at home to the Titans, the Charger defense was going to have to face a very similar offense in the Texans. Arian Foster is a top tier runner like Chris Johnson, and the passing game is strong when set up by a good running game. Although Foster ripped apart the Charger front line, he was contained well and stopped when it mattered most. But there was inadequate execution throughout much of the game. I had mentioned that Kevin Burnett would have a direct effect on Arian Fosters success up front, and it was quite evident throughout the game. How did Burnett hold up? Obviously, he struggled considering how much Foster was able to do on the ground. Let's break down Ron Rivera's defense.
After allowing 20 first half points, 10 off of routinely bad special teams and yet another fumble, the Defense managed to hold the Texans to just a field goal through the second half of the game. All year, Ron Rivera has made brilliant halftime adjustments to shut down opposing offenses and give Norv Turner a chance to put up points. Although Turner and the offense has failed a few times, there is comfort in knowing that the Defense can always keep the game within reach.
| Player | 52 | 54 | 71 | 74 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 95 | 96 | 98 | 99 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1st Half Pass | 0.5 | 0.6 | 0.78 | 0.44 | NA | 0.5 | 0.0 | 1.0 | 0.17 | 1.0 | 0.5 | 0.3 |
| 2nd Half Pass | 0.0 | 0.1 | 0.7 | 0.3 | 0.0 | NA | 0.0 | 0.6 | 0.2 | 1.0 | 0.7 | 0.0 |
| Pass Total | 0.12 | 0.35 | 0.90 | 0.35 | 0 | 0.50 | 0 | 0.76 | 0.18 | 1.0 | 0.67 | 0.18 |
| 1st Half Run | NA | .14 | 1.2 | 0.57 | 0.45 | 0.67 | 0.5 | 0.6 | 0.38 | 0.75 | 0.33 | 0.13 |
| 2nd Half Run | 0.0 | 0.3 | 0.7 | 1.1 | 0.8 | 0.6 | 0.8 | 1.1 | 0.6 | 1.0 | NA | 0.6 |
| Run Total | 0 | 0.23 | 0.75 | 0.77 | 0.65 | 0.69 | 0.61 | 0.83 | 0.46 | 0.85 | 0.33 | 0.32 |
As I mentioned, Kevin Burnett's success would have a direct effect on Arian Foster's running success. Looking at his numbers, Burnett had little success. Fellow ILB Stephen Cooper is also key to stopping the run, but I've grilled him repeatedly for being ineffective. He has a pro bowl quality mind and desire, but the body doesn't put it together well enough. The ultimate truth is, the Charger front 7 was beat down repeatedly the first half, though they would improve in the second half, as they've done all year.
There is a guy referred to by Pacstud as TDEK. Ryan Mathews. I need to make something clear regarding a defensive player on the team. Eric Weddle; He is the one guy you can always count on. The one guy who will always make that tackle, make the stop, and succeed where most others would fail. His dependability makes him great because whatever goes on during a play, he's always there. That's it. He's always there. Eric Weddle is the HAT of this defense. Running plays, pass plays, sweeps, playaction, or anything you want to run, he's always there. It's absolutely brilliant. And it's official. Eric Weddle will be referred to as the HAT in all my analysis. In an AFC stacked with great safties, Weddle is one of them and no one knows it but the Chargers. They will. Right now, Kyle Orton is reviewing for the 78th time, all available film of Weddle throughout this and last year and he is having a psychotic episode because he doesn't know how to take him away from a play. Orton is tightly wrapped in the darkness of the mile high single stall bathroom shaking in his brown bear onesie and puking his oatmeal through his neckbeard trying to overcome the pterodactyls in his stomach that ate the butterflies. How do you beat the HAT? Exactly, you don't know. He's wrapped around your head and you don't even know it.
Click here to view terrible playcall number 1. Crazy right? Now my math isn't great, it's brilliant. So when I see 4 defenders and 4 blockers, that means, Fail. With everyone blocked, no one can make a tackle.
Even in the second half, Foster did find some success, but Burnett improved and did well on some plays. Brandon Siler needs to get healthy. Burnett and Cooper can't play every snap and be fresh. They struggle against the run as it is, and they need to be able to come off for a breather. With English coming back to health, maybe Applewhite can spend more time at ILB to help. He's done it before, and he's not as good as Phillips or Barnes at OLB.
So what can we learn from this game? As far as Arian Foster, he is helped a lot by his excellent run blockers and Fullback. They block very well in their zone scheme and are very steady at the point of attack. Foster himself runs very well: patient, powerful, elusive, and smart. This team finally has a Nose tackle that can play the position like a natural, but no healthy ILB's to play the run. Burnett's speed and coverage ability is a trade off with power, and Coop has just gotten old and ineffective. It's terrible that Donald Butler is on IR. He was the strongest ILB at the combine and his speed and smart play were probably why AJ Smith drafted him. Siler was a steal and it's a shame he's not healthy enough to play. I honestly expect the run defense to improve coming out of the bye week. Not just because it will be the Broncos as the next opponent, but because everyone will be rested, and healthy enough for a serious run at the division. Stopping the run is the biggest priority when the division is headed by Oakland and Kansas city, both good running teams. Recs are appreciated if you appreciated the work I put in for this. Leave any questions or comments for me and I'll do my best to answer them for you. Go Chargers!
Click Here to view the Analysis
Players are graded on a play by play basis. 2.0 is the highest score, and is given to a player who makes a sack, a tackle for a loss, bats a pass down, or a player who is double teamed and can successfully anchor his point. 1.0 is given to players who get pressure, shed a block and can make a stop for little gain, slows down the ball carrier enough to give another player a chance to stop him, or if they're double teamed and can't hold their point, but aren't beat or driven away. 0.0 is given to a player who fails. Whether they don't get any pressure rushing the passer, or are completely blocked, or fail to make a stop. There will be half scores as well, of 1.5 and 0.5 when a player's performance falls in between grading points, like almost getting a sack but forcing an incompletion, or stuffing a play that gains minimal positive yardage. 0.5 would be if they almost fail but manage to do even a little positive, like recover from being beat on a block to make a tackle from behind after a positive gain, or getting a QB to move in the pocket but not hurry his throw, or get beat on his double team but still draw both blockers. Also, not every player is graded on every play. Backside defenders can't be graded because they have no play responsibility to be graded for. Only playside defenders will be graded.
This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.
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nice chop block on garay
in your picture…
I see Kubiak has brought his cheap shot bronco OL play to the Texans.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Nov 12, 2010 8:05 AM PST reply actions
saywhatnow?
I see Garay standing up…
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 12, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
sorry
your terrible play call #1 pic

engaged by the center (who is just moving by him) and chopped by the guard.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Nov 12, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
oooh.
Well it’s a bit touchy. See you have to be “engaged” and the center is actually moving away towards cooper. It could have been called, since the refs were so touchy about Jammers PI calls, but then again, there was no blatant chop block there, since Garay is leaned over as if he was dropping the blocker.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 12, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
right you are
I watched the replay on nfl.com and there was some contact between garay and the center, but not much.
interestingly, #7 (Applewhite) does make it over there in time, but gets picked up by the FB, so one of the 4 guys on that side is left unblocked: Jammer, and he makes the tackle :-) 3 yards inside the endzone :-(
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Nov 12, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
This made me laugh out loud
Orton is tightly wrapped in the darkness of the mile high single stall bathroom shaking in his brown bear onesie and puking his oatmeal through his neckbeard
Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.
Curious about the zeros
When a guy gets a zero, does that mean that basically he wasn’t in on the sack or tackle? Do they get points for pushing across the line even if they aren’t in on the sack/tackle?
Well, it doesn't matter how much
penetration you get if you don’t pressure the QB. When a player gets a zero in a pass play, means he did nothing to pressure the quarterback. A zero in a run play, is when he is blocked perfectly and does nothing to affect the runner. For example. Watch Foster’s first run in any highlight reel if you don’t have access to game film. Applewhite runs into the backfield, and the Lineman calmly directs him to open field where Foster gets a clear lane to run through. On the same play, Cesaire gets a zero because he couldn’t do anything to even change Foster’s run. On pass plays, you’ll see some players get a 1. That’s because the pushed the line back and the QB had to throw early or move from the pressure. Or you’ll see a zero because it was basically like no one rushed, and the player that rushes gets no pressure. The Olineman just washes him out.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 12, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
So pretty much on any given run play...
… half of the line is gonna pull a zero? Not ot be too critical, but if they are running away from your side and you’re blocked you have no chance to affect the run. Would it be better to count that play as a blank for the backside guys? On your gap, or next to your gap not affecting the runner definately a zero.
Absolutely on pass plays no presure sould be a zero. What do you think about 0.5 points if the guy pulls the double? In that instance yeah you may not get the pressure, but the double is giving the rest of the guys an edge and creating some lanes.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 12, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
let me clarify...
guys only get grades if they’re playside. If a run is to the right, I’m not grading the entire front seven, just the Players involved with a chance. In a base defense, a run to the right means the guys that get graded are Castillo, Phillips, Burnett and Cooper. Garay would also get graded unless it’s a sweep or wing stretch play. Watch through my analysis. Sometimes only 3 guys get graded, sometimes it’s 5. I won’t grade someone on the backside of the formation unless he has a legitimate shot. And You should also read my grading points. Any player that draws a double (usually Castillo or Garay) gets a 2 (the max score) by default if he controls his gap or is still able to affect the play. If he draws a double but is driven away or pancaked or neutralized, he’ll get a 1 for at least drawing the double.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 12, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
For example...
on the “terrible playcall” picture where I have the players numbered, Numbers 2,3,4,5 and 6 aren’t graded because they are on the other side of the play and can’t do anything. I don’t default them zero because even if they throw a lineman back 7 yards and make him cry for his mommy, he can’t make a play when the Runner is 10 yards away running towards the end zone. The only guys that got grades in the example play are the playside defenders with responsibility on the run.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 12, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
Not being a wise-ass
This is a serious question. What if the runner reverses his field? Does the entire front seven get graded then?
Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.
If he reverses, the playside guys will probably get good grades
On CJ2K’s miracle 29 yard run, Castillo and Phillips got high grades I believe, because Castillo pushed the whole line back and left nowhere to run for Johnson. Then, when he reverses, the other guys with a chance to make a play are graded. Good question though,
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 13, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
By the way BFTB,
did anyone see the second play of drive 4? where I jokingly gave Johnson an impossible 3.5 grade?
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 12, 2010 7:35 PM PST reply actions
Yeah, I was wondering about that
I figured you were really happy with him. I didn’t check to see if that effected his final grade, Did it?
by not humble enough on Nov 13, 2010 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
No,
I didn’t include that. It would have driven his average up though. It was a joke grade because I thought it was awesome how he drilled the TE.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 13, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I'm now scared...
…of hats.
'Special' Teams means those guys ride in a big orange bus, right?
It's NEVER a shrimp on the barbie. It's not even a shrimp.
by The Land Of Real Beer on Nov 12, 2010 9:57 PM PST reply actions
Be scared..
The HAT is awesome. Seriously. Weddle is really really good.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 13, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
great project pick
I like him. My 3 favorite things about him;
1- Versatility. He can play 1 or 3 technique.
2- Drive. He seems to have his motor running at 6000 rpm at all times. I like that.
3-Ability. He can shed blocks well, and he looks to be taking his shedding tips from Castillo and Garay. He just needs to learn how to rush the passer though.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 13, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Someone on here
Hates Castiilo. Like, Castillo pissed in his Cheerios hates.
6/10/2010 - Tra Thomas signs with the Chargers
8/21/2010 - Tra Thomas retires.
That was fast.
who?
Castillo is great.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 14, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
Me, but for the record my breakfast cerial is safe
I don’t actually hate Castillio. I just think he is way overpaid for the results he produces. I really like his consistency, dude rarely fails to answer the call to start. And being a consistent starter in the NFL? That aint easy.
He’s just and average 3-4 DE, getting paid Top TEN 4-3 DE money. I’d just like to see some of that money go other places like O-Line.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 15, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
He's not average.
Let me give you a scenario. Lets say you have 4 guys rushing your QB. Those four guys are: Kroy Biermann, Jayme Mitchell, Larry Hart and Jared Allen. Who do you double team? If the answer isn’t Jared Allen, I seriously doubt your ability to perform the simplest of tasks, much less your ability to understand football. Castillo is a bull on run plays and a pocket collapser on pass plays. He opens up rush lanes for Shaun Phillips and any combination of Inside LB’s or defensivebacks off the edge by drawing two blockers. The Stats don’t show how big of an influence he has on the defense. You don’t pay someone like that “average” DE money because he’s worth more. If he were underperforming or not living up to his pay, AJ Smith’s Ego would be all over his game checks and Rivera and Turner’s faces. There’s a reason he’s on the field for more snaps than any other lineman. No team in the NFL will routinely keep their best players on the bench, nor will they routinely keep their average players on the field when there is a better one available.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 15, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I've probably got it all wrong but to me a big part of it is the scheme
I just don’t expect big things from a 3-4 DE. Those three up front guys pull the doubles and plug the holes, freeing up the LBs. IMO its one of the strengths of the 3-4. It is easy to find big and strong, which is what I think you look for in a 3-4 DE. The strength of the 3-4 is Linebackers. The world is full of Linebacker talent. Everywhere you turn, you trip over another talented Linebacker. Antwan Barnes was not even on the radar last season. Dude is really good. I know its not quite like that, but I do think it is much easier to find 3-4 linebackers than 4-3 DEs.
Now big strong AND fast like Allen, that is hard to find. You need to find and PAY those elusive big, strong and fast players for the 4-3 DE spot. And coming out of college Castillo fit that bill too. He got the BIG payday, but after that first season the Chargers didn’t get the sacks. Luis is in a role (the 3-4 DE spot) where he can’t directly justify that high of a salary.
To me Louis is marginally better than Cesair, not ten times better – which is how he’s compensated.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 15, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
He's notably better than Cesaire
And he had 8 sacks in 06 because Wade’s system is for the ends to attack as well, and Castillo got lots of sacks and pressure because he was never double teamed.
If you recall, those were the days Jamal Williams was getting doubled and Shawne Merriman too. So you think JWall should not have been paid like he was back then? Since his departure, and even while he was here in 08, Jwall didn’t see as many doubles, as they went to Castillo. Jwall had 2 sacks in 06, none in 07, 1.5 in 08. But bottom line, these guys aren’t going to get paid by AJ if they aren’t worth it. So by getting big bucks, Castillo proves he is, in fact, worth it.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 15, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Very well said
Castillo is a beast. People expect expensive players to make highlight-reel plays. Sometimes that’s not their job.
"Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?"
I'll give you Castillo twice as good as Cesaire, not six times as good.
Louis remains not a as good a value to me. This year Castillo will make 6.25 MILLION dollars, Cesaire? 1.2. Cesaire has been with the team 2 more years than Castillo. During their careers Castillo has banked 35 Million dollars, Cesaire 10.5.
I think AJ is a good talent finder, particularly when it comes to UDFAs. And I think he does a really good job of filling the gaps on the field. I think Ed Mcguire does to the contracts. I’m not ready to transfer the AJ aura of untouchably over to Ed.
I think they are way, way over paying for a guy who is basically a defensive tackle AND not even a guy that can switch to NT if you need (like a Cam Thomas or Vaughn Martin).
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
SO...
Kris Dielman and Nick Hardwick are overpaid too? you think they aren’t good values because they make 9 times as much as Mooch and Dombo and are only slightly more effective? Tolbert makes a fraction of what Mathews makes, so is Mathews overpaid? It’s a simple philosophy in football. Pay your best players. On this team, they are.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 16, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah I kind of do...
I do think the rookies and young guys get cheated. And I also think they pull the rug out from under too many journeymen. And yeah every team makes some contracts that make me scratch my head.
Do I think Ex Jax should have had CBD’s money? Yes.
Do I think SM over performed the early years of his contract? Yes.
I even think LT was underpaid early on. Its not a fair distribution at all and I do think the situation sucks.
Certainly on a position basis, some positions like RB deserve higher pay than other positions like FB. But when you have guys on the field at the same time… playing the same position… and generating roughly equivalent results, yeah I have a problem with one guy making five, ten, twenty times more. Either someone is being under paid, or someone is being over paid. Either way its not right.
As Center and anchor of the O Line Hardwick earns the money, and we can see what life is like without him. Dielman is a stud too. And the comparison to Vasquez is another difficult one because the seniority and experience have to be a factor too. But yeah Dielman and Vasquez are both doing pretty solid work at the same position 4.5M vs 0.4 M. You tell me… Is it fair?
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
sometimes
when a player proves consistently for 3 or 4 years to be great, he gets rewarded with a big contract. If they don’t, they either get the door, or a small and reasonable contract. It’s business.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 16, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
And that's where it breaks down for me
when a player proves consistently for 3 or 4 years to be great
Philip Rivers by comparison to the rest of the team and league is great.
LT was great. Gates is great.
Louis Castillo, the best DE on the whole darn team! Average to below average in comparison to the rest of the 3-4 DE’s in the league. Definitely NOT GREAT but getting paid like it.
And while we are at it… Is Deilman great by this standard? Definitely the best guard on the team. To me Deilman is above average in comparison to the rest of the Offensive guards in the league, not great.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
you gave me a thought.
I’m now going to review film on other 3-4 teams and see how well their DE’s do, then compare them to Luis Castillo
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 16, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
While your at it look it how much those guys get paid as a group
Probably the only other big paycheck in the group is Igor at 4 million bucks a year.
4-3 DTs and 3-4 DEs a dime a dozen.
3-4 NTs and 4-3 DEs worth their weight in gold.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
So the 3-4 teams you are looking for are:
Bills, Cowboys, Dolphins, Patriots, Jets (sort of), Ravens, Browns, Steelers, Broncos, Chiefs, Chargers, Redskins, Packers, Cardinals, 49ers.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
I did some research on this
… most of the 3-4 DEs in the league are making 1.5 M per year or less. Most teams do have the high paid DE and the low paid ham and egger like the Chargers. That high paid DE is pulling 3.5 to 4 million a year, most of the guys have similar sacks to Luis, but twice the numbers of tackles (guys like Stroud, Igor, Coleman, Keisel).
Just looking at career stats there are some other teams with worse problems than the Chargers. The Chiefs seem the worst Dorsey at 6M with 3 sacks 137 tackles and Jackson at 11M ZERO sacks 190 tackles. Picket with the Packers gets 6 M for 8 sacks but he has twice the tackles of Castillo.
There are some real marquee performers in there though: Smith with the Niners makes7 M and 61 sacks and 641 tackles. Warren with the Pats at 0.9 M with 35 sacks and 313 tackles.
Our guys? Castillo at 6 M 17 sacks 195 tackles. Cesaire1.2 M 13 sacks 188 tackles.
Just looking at the career stats… I’m still at Castillo average to below average and paid top ten money out of thirty 3-4 DE starters in the league.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
dont worry
I’ve already begun my film study.
The sports team from my geographical area is superior to the sports team from your geographical area and will emerge victorious due to its very superiority.
by Superduperboltman on Nov 16, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Really interested to getting your thoughts on those Cheifs
They are really paying the biggest bucks, and it doesn’t look like they are getting much.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Not to be contrary
I just want to point out that fairness isn’t about everybody getting the same compensation (even for equivalent performance); it’s about everybody being treated the same way. In fact, it’s impossible to write multi-year contracts and pay players who have similar capabilities and performance in the same way, because capabilities and performance change after the contracts are written.
Rookies who aren’t big names don’t command top dollar. Nothing wrong with that. It’s very common for an unheralded rookie to outperform higher-paid veterans. He plays under his rookie contract, waiting for his payday later on. Meanwhile, underperforming veterans get paid according to their big-dollar contracts. It’s very rare in the NFL (and unheard of in the Chargers’ case) for a team to tear up a rookie contract before it’s expired and rewrite it. And telling a vet to repay some of the money because he’s a disappointment is never going to happen.
It would only be about fairness if two players in the same situation at the same time were treated differently. But when two players in different situations are paid different amounts for the same performance, that’s the reality of the NFL. It’s valid and interesting to debate whether the team is getting a good value for the money, but I don’t see where a Charger player has been treated unfairly. But I’m interested in learning about such situations, if anyone else has noted them.
Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.
Yep I recognize this is the way it is right now
I think there are some things the Owners and NFLPA could do to bring more parity based upon performance.
- A rookie pay scale based upon draft position would be nice.
- Requiring escalators and declinators in all contracts based upon reps, starts and stats would be nice.
- It would be nice if the Owners and NFLPA came back after each season, and evaluated performance to contract to look for gross errors and omissions. Kind of like the money is in escrow until they sort things out.
The situation is front loaded as you’ve written. And as long as they are projecting what future performance will be, I think these types of flawed situations will always be with us.
by Trendsearcher on Nov 16, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions

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