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Around SBN: Upon Further Review: Bo Knows Longreads

5 Bad Things: Chargers at Raiders, Coaches Edition

HELP! I don't know what I'm doing! HELP!  (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)

1. How to Turn Six Points into Zero

At the end of a 7-minute, 80-yard drive by a Chargers team that needed to grab the momentum back after going down 12-0 on two blocked punts and a kick out of bounds, Ryan Mathews gets the ball on 2nd and 8 and runs.....for a touchdown! Wait...that was a touchdown, right?

I'm dying for somebody to find a replay of this play for me, or even better....capture the slow-mo instant replay afterwards. Not only would it had been an incredibly close call, and one you almost have to challenge instead of facing 3rd & 1, but after I saw the instant replay twice I noticed something: Mathews knee never even hit the ground. His legs landed on top of the Raider that was tackling him, and since he was stretching the ball over the goal line at the time...that's 6.

It looked like nobody bothered to look it over. Not the coaches, not the refs or the announcers. Everyone just moved along with the idea of "His knee was down when the ball was at the 1 yard line", but I swear to you it wasn't. I saw it with my own two eyes. I have it recorded on my home DVR. Mathews knee never hit the ground.

And on the very next play, fumble-machine Mike Tolbert fumbled the ball on the 1 and the Raiders recovered on the 14.

(UPDATE: Video will be posted of this play later tonight at the very latest, thanks to Orz)

Star-divide

2. How to Turn a Late Lead into a Loss

With 1:25 left to go in the game, and down by 1 point, the Chargers had 1st & 10 on the Raiders' 34. Not exactly Nate Kaeding's "sure-thing" range, so the Chargers attempt to move the ball closer with two straight pass plays. One is incomplete, the other results in a dumb penalty by the Raiders and puts the Chargers at the Raiders 23 with 1st & 10 and 1:15 left in the game.

Stop right there. Logic has already mapped out this situation. Run the ball, make the Raiders use their timeouts, let Kaeding kick the FG and force Jason Campbell and the Raiders to try and go 40 yards or so on offense without timeouts to put the game in Sebastian Janikowski's hands (or legs), when you know that he has a history of missing game-winning FGs. Logic also says run the ball inside, where there's about a 150% less chance of getting a holding penalty. Logic also says use the RB with a 6.6 YPC (and no fumbles) on the day to run, and not the one averaging less than a yard per carry. And if you're going to use the one with the lower average, the one who has had 1 good run all day and has gotten creamed every time he's tried to run the ball outside.....by all means, run it up the gut. 

Norv Turner did almost none of these things. He put in Mike Tolbert and ran him to the outside, a play that hadn't come close to working all day, and Antonio Gates got caught holding to try and keep the play from getting blown up (which I don't really have a problem with because if he doesn't hold it's the same outcome, minus the down and the time on the clock). Now out of FG range, the Chargers are forced to throw and the Raiders' attacking pass rush force a fumble that they then run back for a defensive touchdown.

 

3. How to Turn a Bad QB into a Good One

Jason Campbell, David Garrard, Matt Cassel. I see the same issues with each of these QBs. Most of the time the defense understands that getting pressure in the face of these players will force bad passes. The Chargers used that knowledge earlier this season to knock Garrard out of the game and force Cassel to have a bad game as well. It was even working well when Campbell first game in for the injured Bruce Gradkowski in the first half, when just a hint of pressure forced Campbell into this line: 

3/7, 38 yards, 3 sacks

Then, with a 24-15 lead, Ron Rivera took the blitzes out of his defensive playbook and lit them on fire. In his defense, it was a little chilly and he needed to get warm. Here's how Campbell fared in the second half, when he had a clean pocket and enough time to take a nap before throwing each pass due to 3 and 4-man rushes.

10/11, 121 yards, 1 TD, 0 sacks

"Wow!", many of you must have said, "Jason Campbell is a very good QB!" No, actually. The truth of it is that Jason Campbell has always been a mobile QB with a big and accurate arm, he just struggles when he gets pressured and makes a lot of dumb plays where he either throws easy interceptions or gets sacked and fumbles. In roughly a game and a half this season, Campbell had been pressured into 6 sacks, 4 fumbles and 2 interceptions. I assure you, he didn't suddenly learn how to play....he simply had the time to not worry about the pass-rush, and to wait for his receivers to get open enough that he didn't have to squeeze the ball through a tight window.

 

4. How to Turn a 0-0 Game into a 12-point Deficit in about 3 Seconds

Everything I've ever heard about Steve Crosby has been good. Great guy, great coach, passionate, loves his job, loves to teach, knows his stuff, etc. He can be given at least partial credit for the wonderful careers of Kassim Osgood, Nate Kaeding, Mike Scifres and Hanik Milligan. However, his squad seems to be giving up about 2 scores per game when the team is on the road.

C.J. Spillman has all the physical skills, but Crosby can't seem to make the kid tackle instead of going for the big hit (which is precisely why there was almost another run-back TD against the Chargers yesterday). He's trying to make due with what he has, but there's a real disconnect between coach and players. It might be time for a new voice, or at least some accountability. If you are directly responsible for 3 losses in 5 games, the team cannot afford to keep you around until you figure it out. If he were the QB, he'd be benched and replaced.

The thing that killed me about the blocked punts was that both times it came from pressure up the middle, and it was without an overload! It wasn't some guy making a great play around the corner, or a particularly great call by the Raiders special teams coordinator. Plain and simple, it was a missed assignment both times. That's at least partly the player's fault, even though it was a different guy each time, but when there's big holes in the middle of your punt-blocking line on each punt....that's a serious issue.

 

5. How to be Out-Coached and Out-Classed by the Oakland Raiders

Let's start with out-coached. The most egregious thing I saw all day from the Chargers coaching staff was not adjusting when it became evident that the Raiders were blitzing on every play. Where were the plays where the Bolts spread the Raiders out with 4 WRs and Antonio Gates and thew quick passes? All I saw were two-TE sets and Philip Rivers throwing prayers to Malcom Floyd while getting slaughtered in the backfield.

Where was Ryan Matthews when it looked like his running was the only thing that was going to stop the blitz? I assure you, this short drive was no coincidence:

1st-5, SD42 8:09 R. Mathews rushed to the right for 17 yard gain
1st-10, OAK41 7:38 P. Rivers passed to M. Floyd down the middle for 41 yard touchdown. 

 

The Raiders lost Mathews on the blitz and finally saw him as a threat on the ground. On the next play, they didn't blitz, FS Michael Huff bit on a play-action and left Malcom Floyd open down the field for the TD. Wow, a successful run to keep the heat off the QB and help the WRs downfield? Maybe they should've tried that a couple more times.

Now, onto being out-classed. Since the game, Norv Turner has had two press conferences. After the game, he responded to a question about Steve Crosby possibly being fired by calling it "Silly". He responded to a question about the Mike Tolbert outside-run play-call mentioned above by saying "You should pay attention to the game." He responded to that same question today, when it was mentioned that Tony Dungy didn't like the call, by bringing up the time the Charger picked off Peyton Manning 6 times and the time Darren Sproles ran back two kicks against him.

Where's your pride? Where's your head at? Even Tom Cable, who has been struggling with a bad team for a few seasons now, doesn't get petty. This is not time to start waving around your dick at Tony Dungy and pretending like his opinion is irrelevant simply because your team beat his team twice. This is not the time to start telling the media, who live and breathe this sport the same way you do during football season, that they are idiots that don't pay attention to the game. Be a man. Stand up at the podium and say that firing Steve Crosby, one of the league's best Special Teams coaches over the last decade, would not guarantee success because there's probably not somebody better that's sitting at home and watching TV. Tell us why you went with the Tolbert outside-run call, we might be willing to accept that we're idiots if you make a good point. 

What I've seen out of Norv last night and today just seems childish, and those around me know how much respect and admiration I have for Turner. I have always been happy with him as the offensive play-caller and the face of the franchise. What I want from him is him to say "We screwed up. Myself, Ron Rivera and Steve Crosby gave that game away. We owe it to the fans and the players to be better prepared when the Raiders come to town in a few weeks." Please don't stomp your feet and tell us that you were right, we are wrong and we're juts too dumb to see it. That's when people like me, big fans, start to wonder how things are going to get turned around.

Comment 89 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Plain and simple, it was a missed assignment both times. That’s at least partly the player’s fault, even though it was a different guy each time, but when there’s big holes in the middle of your punt-blocking line on each punt….that’s a serious issue.

Looked like the same Applewhite / Burnett gap both times to me….
http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2010/10/11/1743198/when-a-fluke-becomes-a-trend

In your opinion, which guys blew each punt coverage?

by Orz on Oct 11, 2010 12:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Whoa

Very nice work John. I never thought I would see the day you lay into Norv the way you just did. Didn’t Norv also start out the press conferance saying the Raiders had 12 men in the huddle and the refs missed a call? The refs missed a lot of calls this game, but I do hate for coaches to bring that up right at the start.

So, who’s ready for another 11 game win streak?

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Oct 11, 2010 1:09 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

hasn't Norv always been a little petty in news conferences?

I can’t put my finger on anything in particular, but he has always seemed a little touchy when things aren’t going well.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 11, 2010 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Defensive? Yes. Pretty? I don't know.

I never remember it being this bad. The Dungy comment was just ridiculous, as was the “Pay attention to the game” non-answer.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 11, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know for a fact you thought Norv was pretty before yesterday.

Now he blew the game and you’re all, “ehh, I don’t know if he’s pretty!”I expected such a non answer from Norv but never from you, Mr. Gennaro…

by sd_Baby-B on Oct 11, 2010 1:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

dammit.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 11, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to go out on a limb here

And say that Norv was pretty pissed about losing to the Raiders.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Oct 11, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

The obvious one

Is the special teams as a whole. You can make a strong argument that the ST have cost all 3 of our losses and when you are in charge of it then you should be accountable for it. If your not doing your job then you need to go. Bye Crosby

by NorthCountyBolt on Oct 11, 2010 1:33 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

but shouldn’t the fact that Crosby’s special teams have been well above average for a long time indicate that the problem isn’t him? I think people aren’t taking the ST job seriously enough. Axing CJ might get some people’s attention. Give Crosby another couple weeks

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 11, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even if they don't fire Crosby

how does he have the balls to come into work each day. His Special Teams have sucked at a level not reached by many teams in the history of the NFL, they have cost the Chargers 3 games. If not for the failures of his special teams the Chargers would probably be 5-0 and everybody would be talking about how great the Chargers (and Norv for matter) are.

If I sucked at my job that much and wasn’t fired I would be too ashamed to show up and cash a pay check.

How do the other coaches not laugh when they walk by his office and see him looking at game film like he might finally figure something out?

Maybe Crosby is not the problem, but it is becoming pretty obvious that he is not the solution.

by JeromeB on Oct 11, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

OMG people

3 games doesn’t wipe out a career of excellent work. This falls squarely on the shoulders of the players. You’re seeing the accountability and the “solution” when you see players like Spillman sent packing.

Let’s find the teachers with the highest standardized test scores in California and we’ll stick them in some high school in east LA and lets see if they continue to have the same kind of success. A coach can only do so much.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do these hypothetical kids get to keep their parents with them when they go?

by Orz on Oct 11, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe Crosby should feel good about the job he is doing

He doesn’t seem to be getting the job done and I don’t think they are going to give him 10 or so new guys to work with on special teams, so should we just suck all year on special teams and be fine with it.

by JeromeB on Oct 11, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's the difference between you and I

You see Crosby not getting it done. I see players not getting it done. As wonko so eloquently put it below;

“The problem I see with firing Crosby
Is that then you have a bunch of bad special teamers AND no one to coach them.”

I’m just not willing to accept that the guy just forgot how to coach after 25 years because of 3 bad games. Especially after you can point to 1 player (read; Spillman) missing an assignment on a few of the gaffes and about 9 players missing tackles on the others. It’s not like Crosby is teaching Hester and the gang how not to tackle people.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Almost every NFL Coach

has been coaching for many years, does that mean that all NFL Coaches are great?
The loss of Osgood is big but the players that are on special teams are not high school kids, they are legit NFL players. In fact the Chargers are supposed to be a talented deep team. I do not believe that the Seahawks, Chiefs and Raiders all have more talented players on special teams than the Chargers do. Less motivated, maybe. Assignments drilled into them less, or less sure of them, maybe.

I am not sure firing Crosby is the answer, but I am sure that, so far, keeping him has not been. Is it possible that under another Special Teams Coach they would even play worse?

by JeromeB on Oct 11, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

So in whatever profession you ply your talents....

You never screw up? Or make mistakes, sometimes more than once in succession? I have. I do. And I will. But that’s life. Football is no different. Coaches aren’t infallible, nor are players. Changes have been made where they are the easiest to make, with cause, and without totally disrupting the team as your suggestion would. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the coaches are aware of the mistakes, the players also. And they know they better fix them. All of these knee-jerk responses to fire the coach is just silly. If that is what you truly think then start naming the replacement coaches that you think is going to come in and make the change you want and why you think they can do it.

by remmrtn on Oct 11, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone screws up in life

but if I performed badly at my job on a regular basis I would look for another job.
I don’t think that it is a knee-jerk response. If people called for Crosby to be fired after the KC game, that would be knee-jerk. If people called for him to be fired after the Seattle game, a little rash yes but not quite knee-jerk. Now a third of the season is over and things seem to be getting worse instead of better with the Oakland game. Doesn’t seem like a knee-jerk reaction to me.
I am sure as you say they are aware of the mistakes and they know they better fix them, but they have been for a month now and its just not happening.
I do not pretend to know who they should hire to replace Crosby, my hope would be that AJ and Norv who have both been around the NFL for many years may have some ideas.

by JeromeB on Oct 12, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

have to agree

If the kick returns are because C J would rather knock someones head off than wrap them up and tackle, then sayonara, aufwiedersehen, adios, ciao.

by irishlad on Oct 12, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

The problem I see with firing Crosby

Is that then you have a bunch of bad special teamers AND no one to coach them.

At least with him still here you have a guy who has a proven track record in the league that can help them get better.

I guess that operates on the assumption that Crosby is good, but it seems like several years should outweigh 4 bad games, no?

That being said, much like when they fired Cottrell (which I remind you happened at the start of the bye week just like the Dolphins did this year), I won’t cry about it. But, you better have a plan to replace what you lose by letting him go. Otherwise, you’re just doing something stupid to save face. I want to win. Not save face.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.

Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't

by Wonko on Oct 11, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Miami fired their ST coach 12 minutes after the MNF game ...

… so I don’t think a question about Crosby’s job security is ‘silly.’ Norvalicious is rattled.

by sirbud on Oct 11, 2010 1:35 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm still speechless after yesterday

That game was worse than anything Mike Riley produced in 2000, or Kevin Gilbride-June Jones in 1997-1998. Absolutely brutal, and all the worse for the party line of “steady as she goes, don’t question the helmsman.”

"The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe." - Dr. Leonard McCoy.

by Jeff (sliderockmpc) on Oct 11, 2010 1:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Ouch

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 11, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly my point

Those teams were horribly undermanned, and (especially in Gilbride’s case) handicapped by terrible QB play. I kept thinking yesterday… I remember after either a 23-6 loss to the Steelers in 1992, or a 27-0 loss in Houston in 1992 that Bobby Ross came right out and apologized for the performance.

I can forgive a tough loss against a good team. But when you’ve committed enough Special Teams mistakes for a half-decade in 5 games… someone has to take it between the eyes.

"The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe." - Dr. Leonard McCoy.

by Jeff (sliderockmpc) on Oct 11, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry your wrong

Those teams were horrid players, terrible coaches and sucky ownership; a perfect storm of all 3

by bo_shilo on Oct 11, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

But that’s just because we’ve seen this movie before. We know how it ends: the Chargers “right their ship,” win several games, and get to the playoffs…… only to implode in the first round (usually because of the same mistakes that plagued them early in the season).

by Andy (allfield) on Oct 11, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

this year may end differently

we might not make the playoffs, 2 of our losses are to division rivals.

by boltsgamedayfootball on Oct 11, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

in a psychotic, masochistic way, i'm hoping you're right

Maybe — just maybe — missing the playoffs will equate to cleaning house

by Andy (allfield) on Oct 11, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah because cleaning house is exactly what you want to do to a team

that is a perennial contender. I’d rather not waste El Capitan’s prime years and Gates remaining prime years over shitty special teams play. Forgive me if I’ve been enjoying these last 7 years. I really really don’t want another 1-15 season. The grass is never greener despite what Katy Perry tells us. In the 2006 off-season how many of us would have taken Wade over Norv in a heartbeat? How about now? Exactly.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, I didn't want either one for head coach.

Norv as offensive coordinator and Wade as defensive coordinator sounds about right to me. I’m from the school of thought that the HC needs to be able to kick some guys’ tails and handle other guys with kid gloves… and have the wisdom to know who needs what when. My opinion is that Norv just isn’t that guy. Other people disagree, which is fine. I continue to believe there is an endemic, systematic problem with the Chargers that allows them to come out flat way, way too often. Some say that the players are professionals and shouldn’t need motivation. I say baloney; professionals may need more motivation than anyone, but certainly they need to be prepared and have their heads in the game. That is the coaching staff’s responsibility.

Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.

by QLFixBoy on Oct 11, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

This and...

…I’ll go further and say that the proof is in the pudding. Slow start. Slow start. Slow start. Slow start. Okay, you want to argue that by saying, “But look what happened after the slow start. But look what happened after the slow start. But look what happened after the slow start. But wait until after the slow start.” To which I would reply, “And what was the end result? And what was the end result? And what was the end result? And what’s going to be the end result?”

“Cleaning house” does not necessarily mean 1-15 — ESPECIALLY to a perennial contender. “Cleaning house” means ANYONE can do better. Back in the day of Dan Henning, it was clear to a number of us that simply cutting Henning loose would improve the team. The team finally did, and they brought in Bobby Ross. From doormat to AFC Champ in 3 seasons. This team is no doormat. They could do better with instantly with a lot of different Head Coaches.

by Andy (allfield) on Oct 11, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll see your Gruden and raise you a Cowher

by Orz on Oct 11, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh

Gruden is not a very good coach. Trust me on this one.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 12, 2010 6:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

What coaches are these?

How many coaches have made it to the playoffs the last 3 years and won at least 2 games? That’s what Norv has done for us. Yeah the slow starts suck but they are each unique and have no bearing on one another. 07 was his first year as head coach of the Chargers and we lost to a NE team that went undefeated, a Green Bay team that went 13-3 and one stinker of a loss to the Chiefs. In 2008 the Chargers were not a very good team, we lost on a last second TD to the Panthers (we all miss you Teddy Cottrell) and the only thing keeping us from being 4-2 after six games was Ed Hochuli. 2009 both of our lines were anihilated by the Raiders and it took a few weeks to get everything shored up. 2010 special teams shit the bed. If it was the team comming out flat and generally playing like garbage year in and year out I would be a lot more upset with Norv but that’s not whats going on here. It’s frustrating but it’s been a little bit of everything.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I'm saying...

…is that I’m getting a little tired of the “Perfect Storm” defense. Every problem that the Chargers go through seems to be a confluence of “unpredicted and unfortunate magnitude” that allows someone who is of questionable Head Coaching talent to keep his job.

If all bad coaches were allowed to pick and choose such reasoning for their team’s failings, we’d still see guys like Rich Kotite coaching.

by Andy (allfield) on Oct 11, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

agree

very tired of these excuses, did they not learn anything from previous years or the brutal Jets playoff loss? what was the point of Rivers driving around with a sticker of the Jets score on his van? nothing has changed and i don’t expect anything different in the playoffs if they somehow overcome another bad start.

by boltsgamedayfootball on Oct 12, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah special teams suck, but

In each of the 3 loses the chargers offense would storm down the field only to self destruct in the red zone. In the chiefs game it was the false starts and delay of game penalties as well as slipping and falling. Thge seattle game, false starts and other “mental” mistakes. Plus, the seahawks noticed that with a 3 man rush, rivers was picking them apart and made the adjustment and brough more heat (hello ron rivera, are you listening?) causing rivers to have to rush his throws. Yesterday, fumbles, (bad officiating) missing a wide open crayton in the end zone at gthe end of the first half and settling for a field goal. Defennse playing a soft “zone” coverage AND not bringing any pressure. Heck, given all day to throw, any one of us could complete passes. And, when the run is working, norv quits using it. How have the chiefs won 3 games this year and kept it close against the colts? By playing good defense and RUNNING THE BALL. At least the players know that no one has beaten them yet, that they have basically beaten themselves. Plus, mc niel will be back this week, so our O line should be more solid.

by irishlad on Oct 12, 2010 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay so give us some examples of a player not being motivated

or not having his head in the game because I sure as shit can’t think of any. I’ve seen a team that has completely blown two other teams out of the water and a team that has fought scratched and clawed its way back into games after a few individuals made stupid mistakes on special teams. I have seen accountability for those mistakes. What I haven’t seen is a lack of intensity or passion and I certainly haven’t seen players giving up. You know what happens when you play without intensity or passion? Ask the Cardinals and Jaguars, when was the last time we’ve been blown out?

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I saw Dombrowski give up when he let Rivers get sack/stripped from his blind side

The ball was lying at his feet with no Raider in a position to get it. At his feet. He stood there looking down field in frustration while the Raiders dove on the ball from every direction.

Oh, and McMichael gave up when he was sitting on the end of the game rivers fumble and decided not to secure it just in case it was a fumble instead of an incomplete pass.

by sd_Baby-B on Oct 11, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I see your point

Dombro couldn’t have given up on the fumble since he didn’t see it. Fine. But he definitely gave up on the play. In my opinion if a player gives up a sack he should always be looking for the ball, given that a fumble is likely and he is the only offensive player not previously engaged.

I can’t say McMichael failed when I don’t believe he tried. Not 1 percent.

by sd_Baby-B on Oct 11, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I'm 50-50 on McMicheal

when I was it live I was like “WTF dive on the ball you have to be sure!!!!” but after seeing the replay it looks like he tries and fails to pick it up and then gets hit by a diving Raider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dZF0M5oHEM

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wanted Rex Ryan

because my best friends growing up and who I lived with at the time were Ravens fans so I saw a lot of their games. I wanted the Chargers to be thought of with the Eagles, Steelers or Ravens when talking about defense. My line of thinking in 2006 was “we don’t need an offensive coach, just give the ball to #21 how hard is that? I want a suffocating defense”.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec'd

Excellent

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 11, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Head Controls the Body

And the Head needs to take responsibility for the Body.

I agree that Sparano was maybe a little hasty in firing his ST coordinator, but it sure sent a message, didn’t it?

Norv doesn’t know how to send messages. It’s not in his DNA. And therefore, as far as I’m concerned, Head Coaching is not in his DNA.

by Andy (allfield) on Oct 11, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

“Norv doesn’t know how to send messages. It’s not in his DNA. And therefore, as far as I’m concerned, Head Coaching is not in his DNA.”

You’re right, it wasn’t Norv who had to beg for AJ to let him fire Cottrell. What do you want him to do? Cut Tolbert? Cut Gates? That’ll sure send a message!

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

What a ridiculous statement

It’s obvious what he wants given the comment he was replying to.

by sd_Baby-B on Oct 11, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is it ridiculous?

He wants Norv to fire a coach to send a message. Something Norv has already done, yet he’s claiming it isn’t in Norvs DNA to do so.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

just so I could un-rec.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

I should elaborate.

“Yep, the players blew assignments.”
This is excellent, you should have concluded your post right here. Couldn’t have said it any better myself! I mean, if my boss is an awesome boss(she is) and she has me trained and prepared to accomplish any assignment she tasks me with and then I go and fuck everything up, that’s on me. I’m going to be the one getting fired (see you later, CJ) not her. She doesn’t have to remind me every morning not to crash the Slip Sheet or the EPJ, it’s my job to make sure I’m operating the equipment she trained me on as safely as possible. Just like it’s the players job to make sure they are executing the gameplan, protecting the football, and not committing stupid penalties like they’ve been coached.

“These discipline problems have been a recurring theme for years. If the problem is not talent (and I think we all agree it isn’t), then my question is: whose job is it to get the players to play?”

These discipline problems have been a recurring theme for years you are correct. They’ve also been a recurring theme across two different coaching staffs, they’re also a recurring theme for every team on every Sunday. Show me a game where a player doesn’t make an undisciplined mistake and I’ll show you someone playing Mdden 11. So tell me why it is we should all agree it’s not on the players?

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I respect your opinion

You make good points NB (love that handle, BTW). I just see it differently. Obviously, players make mistakes. Players sometimes make incredible boneheaded mistakes. (VJax kicking a penalty flag comes to mind. VJax spiking a live ball after a reception comes to mind, too. Hmm, I don’t miss VJax all that much, but I digress.) My problem is when it’s a larger pattern of the same type of mistakes, and when it happens in greater proportion than the norm, which seems to be the case with our Chargers. I think it speaks to team discipline. Sure, you can kick someone’s butt for making a stupid mistake after it happens, and you should. But why can’t the Chargers cut down on the stupid mistakes before they happen, or not repeat said stupid mistakes? Because, frankly it sure looks like it happens more with our guys than theirs. When a team outgains its opponent by a large margin (sometimes nearly 2:1) with a 5-10 minute TOP advantage every game, and still loses three times out of five, there is an issue. In my opinion, it’s a coaching issue.

The fact that it’s happened with two coaching staffs doesn’t mean much to me. I do see one difference, though. Under Schottenheimer, when the Chargers stunk it up in the first half, you usually saw more urgency in the second half. I saw many games where they played poorly in the first half and won in the second. So coaching plays a major role, you bet it does.

Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.

by QLFixBoy on Oct 11, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Special Teams!

Special Teams, Special Teams, Special Teams. There are mistakes in every game, but the blocked kick for a TD, and the other blocked kicks on top reveal a deeper problem with the absolutely terrible special teams coverage. How do you block that many in one game? Didn’t Norv say he addressed the Spec. Teams issues after the last debacle? Add to that a few fumbles, and your regular missed opportunities and we got the Raiders-Chargers game. I think either the bolts turn it around and begin their usual late-start win streak, or I think this fan will become “fair-weather” as a result of the frustration, and accompanying hair-loss. Add to that the “fickle” fan factor, and I think we will see more blackouts in the future.

by Medek-Medekai on Oct 11, 2010 1:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Also

you will probably address this in Bolts and Dolts, but Randy McMichael has to this year’s Dolt of year. I still can’t believe he didn’t fall on the ball after the fumble.

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Oct 11, 2010 1:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Maybe, but...

Many players’ first instinct is to pick up the ball rather than fall on it. Happens every week. It’s pretty dumb, but not rare. However, blowing your chance at a game-winning field goal with insipid play calls? That’s epically Norvelous: snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Criminy, he could have just had Rivers kneel three times, force the Raiders to use their timeouts, and run out the clock for a FG try. Risky? If Kaeding misses, I guess so, but what’s riskier? Running Tolbert outside?

Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.

by QLFixBoy on Oct 11, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, I agree with this

and your previous post. But the Raiders seemed to fall on the fumble…

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Oct 11, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

not blaming the refs, entirely

We still had opportunity to win the game, but to me this was another ed hochouli game only in reverse. Insted of ruling a fumble an incomplete pass, they ruled an incomplete pass a fumble. but the result was the same, chargers lose.

by irishlad on Oct 12, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Running the football is exactly what you want in that situation.

I believe you’re upset about the holding penalty but we all love Gates so lets just blame Norv yeah? I mean I’m sure you know exactly what the play call was and are absolutely positive Philip didn’t see anything at the line that might have caused him to audible or make any adjustments. Just like I’m sure you know for a fact that Tolbert didn’t try to bounce it outside on his own.

by Natrone Bomb on Oct 11, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

QLFixBoy-Exactly. How many chances do we give this guy? I cannot conclusively say we would have won that game if not for his actions/inactions, but sweet jesus we outperformed Oakland on every other front. I think his (Crosby’s) days are numbered, and good riddance.

by Medek-Medekai on Oct 11, 2010 2:00 PM PDT reply actions  

And while we're on the subject of coaching

As bad as special teams have been, the running backs have fumbled six times (2 each for Tolbert, Sproles and Ryan). At least three of those (just going by memory) have wrecked long drives. What is the RBs coach (Ollie Wilson in case you don’t know; I had to look him up) doing to solve this problem? Nothing is a momentum changer like a turnover to thwart a nearly-certain score. Just throwing that up onto the dart board.

Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.

by QLFixBoy on Oct 11, 2010 2:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Ollie Wilson's a damn good RB coach.

He also gets a lot of credit for the success LT had early in his career. Just thought I’d throw that out there since you weren’t familiar with who he is. I do agree with you that something needs to be done about the fumbleitis that’s seemed to infect our entire RB corp, but if you look at LTs history of having minimal fumbles in his career, I’m optimistic that it’s something Norv and Wilson will be able to fix.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s kindof split between Olli and Clarence Shelmon, actually.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 11, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just remember reading an article

where LT gives Olli all kinds of praise for his development, but I’m sure Shelmon had a hand in it as well.

Please don't read my signature.

by SoCalBoltFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

My vague understanding...

is that Shelmon worked with the O-line coach to come up with a gameplan for the running game. Ollie worked on things like footwork and ball control.

Bolts from the Blue - Destroying your opinions with facts.

by John Gennaro on Oct 11, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll grant that he's a good coach

since you know more about him than I. Still, my theme today is accountability, and RBs not taking care of the football has been a continual problem this year. Again, I have to ask, whose job is it to get the players to play? It’s an utter cop-out to say it’s up to the players to produce or that it’s just one of those things. Somebody needs to stand front and center to say, “hey, this is my responsibility, and I will get it fixed.” Not the impersonal and imprecise “we” or “he” or “they” will get it fixed. Or even worse “it will get fixed.” What the players and fans will respect is “I will take responsibility and I will make it happen.”

Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.

by QLFixBoy on Oct 11, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Finesse Label

I keep hearing people labeling the Chargers as a finesse team. Wouldn’t that mean they would play smarter? All of the losses this year have been mostly due to mental breakdowns.

I have defended Norv in the past. Oftentimes, he gets more criticism than he deserves. But these losses are all inexcusable. We have dominated every game, only to hand three wins to the other side.

by Cake or Death on Oct 11, 2010 2:40 PM PDT reply actions  

More BAD BAD Coaching

What about not going for a 2 point conversion…………hello….can somebody…anyone make a case for not going for a 2 point conversion on these scores….also on the 3rd qtr score………………
 TD 10:07 Antonio Gates 19 Yd Pass From Philip Rivers (Nate Kaeding Kick) 7 12
 TD 04:49 Mike Tolbert 4 Yd Run (Nate Kaeding Kick) 14 12

2 point conversion rules apply…………….Just Stupid….Can’t fix STUPID

by Big Daddy RC on Oct 11, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Many Coaches don't like to go for two until late in a game

unless it is an obvious choice.
In your above scenario had the Chargers gone for two both times and failed, they would have been tied 12-12 as opposed to being ahead 14-12. So that would be one reason.
Had the Tolbert score happened in the later half of the 4th quarter I am quite sure that norv would have went for two.
I think that it also varies from team to team, depending on what a coach thinks of his offenses ability to put up more points in a given game and how many times he thinks his opponent will get into scoring position.

by JeromeB on Oct 11, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unjustified criticism

Among the airing of legimate grievances this strikes me as really off base. According to the ubiquitous “chart” only one of the three situations you cited merited a two point attempt (the Tolbert score).

When using the superior (in my opinion) time dependent chart (see for example :http://www.footballcommentary.com/twoptchart.htm) none of the situations would be a clear cut go for two situation, especially for the ones in the first half. It is just too unpredictable how the scoring will play out.

At the end of the day, the way the scoring scenario ended up was as much to the Chargers advantage as the could have hoped after giving up two 4th quarter touchdowns (i.e. still be able to win the game with a field goal).

by Druceratops on Oct 11, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sproles bocking and Rivers' "fumble"

First let me just get if off my chest that that game was FUBAR in too many ways to recount, all thought many are doing their best today on this site!

2 Questions:

First, why is Sproles being asked to block on that play when Rivers “fumbles” and they return it for a TD? He got blown up by a DB!

Second, has anyone really looked closely at the play to see that the football goes about 5 yards forward on the “fumble” when it comes out of Rivers’ hand? Physics would say that his arm must have been going forward for the ball to do that if he is hit from the front! If it is not moving forward, the ball would drop at his side or go backward – right?

by BoltFan58 on Oct 11, 2010 4:00 PM PDT reply actions  

A couple of possibilities

First, IMHO, it was a forward pass because it looked to me like his hand had started forward before he lost control of the ball.

However, the call on the field was fumble, so during the replay, the official needed to see conclusive evidence (can’t remember the exact wording of the rule, so somebody feel free to jump in with it) that the call on the field was wrong. So either the official thought the original call was correct, or he didn’t see conclusive evidence the call was wrong.

But since you brought physics into it… If River’s entire body was moving forward (like stepping up in the pocket) and his arm was stationary when he was hit, it’s at least plausible that the ball would continue moving forward, assuming Rivers didn’t affect the ball after the moment his arm was hit (like gripping the ball tighter with his fingers). Also, there is usually upper body rotation during a throwing motion before the arm actually moves forward (unless you “throw like a girl” meaning all arm and no body). So it’s also possible that his upper body was moving forward with his arm stationary, and again the ball might be moving forward without his arm moving forward relative to the rest of his body. However, as I said earlier, I think his hand had started forward, that being the real reason the ball traveled a couple of yards forward.

Are Marlon McCree and Antonio Cromartie the same person? Just askin'.

by QLFixBoy on Oct 11, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks!

First time posting – thanks for making me feel so welcome to this site! WTF?

by BoltFan58 on Oct 11, 2010 4:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Sproles is and has been our best blocking back

He has great technique, and he is not a liability in most cases. Blockers get blown up sometimes, that’s football. It’s the one skill the younger backs take a while to learn. Hester is only now really getting it (and he screwed up one of the punt blocks), Tolbert has been inconsistent, and Mathews is a rookie. Sproles really is the best option for third down. That’s been true for a while now, which is why your comments were received as they were. Hope this helps. You are indeed welcome here.

"Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?"

by aesimpleton on Oct 11, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My bad sir, it’s usually wonko’s job to be rude to the new poster…

by Orz on Oct 11, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since we're airing all grievances...

I’d like to submit for the record injured Larry English and how Clay Matthews was available at that point in the draft. heh

by RiversMVP on Oct 11, 2010 7:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Larry English injured as well

What’s your point? Clay is clearly the better player. Hindsight 20-20. Clay has outperformed expectations. I just like crapping on that wasted 1st round pick by AJ. Terrible. AJ has been good at the draft, but English was a low point for himm.

by RiversMVP on Oct 11, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Coaching

I’m a firm believer that a good head coach gets more out of average to good players than the average coach. It may be through the proper game plan to fit their strengths, good in-week coaching, better training on fundamentals, or pure motivational power. Whatever it may be, Norv doesn’t seem to have it. I’m just making a statement, not calling for Norv’s head. I don’t think we’d be able to get a better coach without taking a risk on a hungry, unproven coordinator. I don’t think a Gruden would come to this organization.

The Chargers need to fix this. Norv needs to adjust. I’m not sure how he does it, but he seems to coach a better game as the season progresses. I’m willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt for now, but with this cupcake schedule we ought to be 4-1.

Crosby needs to go if one more ST debacle unfolds. I don’t care how good he is on paper, this the what have you done for me lately league. Crosby hasn’t done sh*t. The players we have are going to have to get it done. Assuming they want to play well and win, the rest is coaching. Recognizing mistakes and correcting them in practice. I understand that the players must execute, but 3 games of ST fail? How can any of you defend Crosby? Coaching is more than Xs and Os.

by RiversMVP on Oct 11, 2010 7:21 PM PDT reply actions  

On Bad No. 2

To make things even easier on the coaching staff, I believe the Raiders were already out of time-outs.

by HuangDi on Oct 11, 2010 8:58 PM PDT reply actions  

no imagination

I’m not suggesting becomming a “gimmic play” team. but, some imagination, some deception once in awhile would be refreshing. Gee, you see other teams do it. anyone remember ben rothlisburgers punt in the playoffs? The Saints on side kicking to start the second half.in the superbowl. Heck, the chiefs on side kicking to start the colts game. granted, it backfired, but norv has no imagination. No, he runs the same old plays over and over and over again. Gee, you think teams watch fiilm and have seen those plays a hundred times? I still don’t understand where norv got his “offensive genius” label.

by irishlad on Oct 12, 2010 10:37 AM PDT reply actions  

The Saints managed to lose to a team we just blew out.

Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Oct 12, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

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