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Around SBN: Upon Further Review: Bo Knows Longreads

An Experiment - A Level Headed Assessment of Norv Turner

Following John's creditable job of defending A.J. Smith earlier in the week, I'm going to discuss Norv Turner, and risk sounding like a monstrous hypocrite in the process.

In October, I was among those calling for Norv Turner's head.  However, following the Chargers amazing return to elite status, I've been busy reexamining my feelings and thoughts. 

To begin with, can we all concede that having a level-headed discussion regarding Norv Turner is virtually impossible. I will provide some thoughts about Norv's coaching history, his current status with the Chargers, and try to explain why he merits an extension as Chargers' Head Coach.

More below the jump...

Star-divide

Appearances are Deceiving

Maybe it's an appearance thing.  It's possible that fans dislike Turner because he doesn't fit any of the three archetypes that seem to endear coaches to fans; he's not an icy sideline genius like Tom Landry, Mike Shanahan, or Bill Belichick, nor does he have the fire-and-brimstone attitude of a Bill Cowher, Bill Parcells, or Marty Schottenheimer.  He's also not a young, fiery, whiz-kid along the lines of a Jon Gruden or Josh McDaniels. 

Turner doesn't fit any of these classic types; to me, he seems like a bemused and/or exasperated professor shuffling through term papers and working out theorems in his head, while wondering why many of his students don't "get it."  In short, it seems like he's not all there on the sideline, and I can't imagine anything more annoying to fans and players.

The challenge, then, is to look past appearances.

Early Career

Turner's coaching career began with USC, as a receivers (WR) and tight ends (TE) coach.  From there, he followed John Robinson to the Los Angeles Rams, where he worked with Don Coryell disciple Ernie Zampese to make the Rams' offense (with QB Jim Everett, WRs Flipper Anderson, and Henry Ellard) one of the most potent in the NFL. 

It seems likely that Turner's emphasis on a balanced attack comes from the conflating of Robinson's USC teams which ran opponents into the ground, and Zampese, one of the most fervent disciples of Coryell's timing based, aggressive passing attack.  This was the basis of the offense that Turner took to Dallas, when Jimmy Johnson hired him as Offensive Coordinator in 1990.

Turner, with Troy Aikman at QB, Emmitt Smith at RB, WR's Michael Irvin, Alvin Harper, TE Jay Novacek, FB Daryl Johnston, and possibly the best offensive line in NFL history progressed from a green bunch of kids into an offensive machine, one that could just as easily pound opponents into the ground as throw over their heads.  Within 4 years of his hiring, Dallas had won 2 Super Bowls in dominating fashion.

Washington Redskins

Turner was hired in 1994 as the Head Coach of the Washington Redskins.  Turner was inheriting the ruins of the Joe Gibbs / Bobby Beathard dynasty which produced 3 Super Bowl championships in 4 appearances from 1982-1991.  The Redskins GM was Charley Casserly.  Together, they made a mistake that is universally regarded as the biggest setback for a struggling franchise - drafting a franchise QB who does not pan out.  The player in question was Heath Shuler, and his failure to develop cost Turner at least 2-3 seasons of growing quarterbacks.

Actually, like Gibbs before him, Turner had something of a QB carousel, using Gus Frerotte and Trent Green, before Brad Johnson arrived in 1999 to take the Redskins to their only playoff appearance under Turner.  He was fired in 2000 with 3 games remaining on the schedule (a 7-6 record).  His final record in Washington was 49-59-1, with a 1-1 record in the playoffs.

The hallmark of Turner's teams in Washington was getting off to a fast start, but fading down the stretch and missing the playoffs.  In 1996, the Redskins started 7-1, only to finish 9-7.  In 2000, the Redskins started 6-2, but his firing followed a streak where the Redskins lost 4 out of 5.

Another mark of Turner's Washington teams was the inability to hold leads late in games.  The Redskins were  known as a team that could compete with the best teams in the league, but also could lose to the worst teams in the league, often in consecutive games.  He also developed a reputation for being "aloof", and being unable to instill disciplined play in his roster.

In Turner's defense, he developed Gus Frerotte into a serviceable QB, who stayed in the NFL for years as a competent back-up or short time starter.  His development of Trent Green led eventually to Green's successful stint as the starting QB in Kansas City, by way of St. Louis (not coincidentally, the place where Coryell disciples Al Saunders, Jim Hanifan, and Mike Martz helped create the The Greatest Show on Turf).

Also, it should be noted that Casserly proved to be a marginal GM, unable to consistently stock the Redskins (or Houston Texans) with the quality of players Bobby Beathard provided to Joe Gibbs.

Return to the Coordinator's chair

In 2001, Turner served as offensive coordinator of the San Diego Chargers.  In his 1 year in San Diego, Turner oversaw the first competent offensive attack the Chargers employed since 1996.  He was responsible for the early development of RB LaDainian Tomlinson, and contributed some to the development of QB Drew Brees - who played outstanding in his 1 half of game action as a rookie.

Following consideration as a head coaching candidate in 2002 (a job he lost to Marty Schottenheimer), Turner went to Miami, building his offense around RB Ricky Williams, while marginalizing the deficiencies of QB Jay Fiedler.  In early 2004, Turner was named Head Coach of the Oakland Raiders.

Oakland Raiders

Turner was stepping into the exact same position in Oakland he had entered in Washington, a team built around a fading group of veteran stars, with a lack of young talent behind them.  In Al Davis, Turner found a kindred spirit in the theories and execution of offense, but Davis failed to provide the players or autonomy Turner would have needed to be successful.

Turner managed to install an effective offensive attack around QB Kerry Collins, but the general lack of responsibility and discipline was equally the result of the losing and decrepit culture in Oakland.  Turner's Raiders teams played with no consistency, ranging from solid to awful, but it should be noted that his predecessor Bill Callahan, as well as successors Art Shell, Lane Kiffin, and Tom Cable have not been able to produce better results than Turner.  Turner was fired after the 2005 season, with a record of 9-23 in Oakland (58-82-1 overall).

Coordinated... again.

Turner's next stop was in San Francisco as offensive coordinator in 2006.  Again, he demonstrated his ability to build effective offense with less than ideal players, turning RB Frank Gore into a star, and getting a solid (if unspectacular) performance from QB Alex Smith.  It should be noted that following Turner's departure from San Francisco, the offense as a whole, and Smith in particular, disintegrated into a horrendous mess that took 2 and 1/2 seasons to fix.

San Diego Chargers

Following Marty Schottenheimer's disastrous playoff loss against the Patriots in January 2007, internal strife led to his departure.  Turner was one of several candidates for the Chargers Head Coaching position, a group that included current Head Coaches Rex Ryan and Mike Singletary, current Chargers Defensive Coordinator Ron Rivera, and former Saints Defensive Coordinator Gary Gibbs.

Based on his previous record as a head coach, Turner's hiring in San Diego was met with a range of reactions from incredulous to outrage.  The few defenders of Turner's hiring said he can't help but succeed with the talent on the Chargers' roster, and he's an outstanding offensive coach.  Everyone else made the obvious point - a guy with a 58-82-1 record has already proved to be a loser.

The truth is, Turner was hired by General Manager A.J. Smith for one overriding reason - to develop Philip Rivers into a championship caliber QB.  Looking at Rivers' progression over the last few years, Turner's performance in this area has been an unqualified success.

In 2007, the Chargers shook off a 1-3 start to finish 11-5, and advanced to the AFC Championship Game against 17-0 New England, where injuries to key players became too much to overcome.  During the playoffs, Turner's mastery of offense was fully displayed (particularly in the 2nd half of the Titans game, and throughout the Indianapolis game).

In 2008, the Chargers were forced to overcome injuries, a wildly inconsistent defense, and a 4-8 start before rallying to a postseason berth.  They defeated the Colts at home, before traveling to Pittsburgh and getting fully exposed by the eventual Super Bowl Champion Steelers.

When the Chargers failed to start well in 2009, Turner's flaws as a head coach - undisciplined play, poor game management, intermittently successful adjustments, and the "aloof" nature seemed to be brought into relief.

In truth, however, Turner had already begun the process of nullifying these weaknesses, even turning a few of them into strengths...

  • The offseason hiring of Rob Chudzinski as Assistant Head Coach has helped Turner manage games at much higher level than last year.  For proof, look at the 4th quarters vs. Oakland, New York, Philadelphia, Dallas, and Cincinnati, as well as the much lower number of bad challenges.  Turner was smart enough to recognize he needed help in this area and got it.
  • Turner transitioned to a pass first offense.  Putting the ball in Rivers' hands makes the most of what the Chargers do best, has taken the pressure off the defense, and made a generally poor running game at least marginally effective.  It should be noted that since the game at Kansas City, the Chargers have been able to run the ball when necessary -in the red zone and 4th quarter.
  • The decision to cut Safety Clinton Hart, as well as demote nickel CB Antoine Cason immediately forced the players to become accountable for their mistakes on the field.  Nothing asserts a coach's authority quicker then taking away playing time.  It's no coincidence that the Chargers immediately started playing smarter football once these moves were made.
  • Speaking of autonomy, Turner is also the person who decided to remove Ted Cottrell last season, despite A.J. Smith's objections, and replace him with Ron Rivera (Turner could never have made these moves under Dan Snyder or Al Davis).
  • Turner has proven to be an outstanding evaluator of coaching talent.  Considering the injuries sustained, as well as the development of many young players, Turner's staff has worked some minor miracles.  Extra credit goes to Offensive Line Coaches Hal Hunter and Mike Sullivan, Defensive Line Coach Don Johnson, and Wide Receivers Coach Charlie Joiner.
  • Despite slow starts in each of his three years in San Diego, Turner has won the games he's had to win.  December is the month that separates the contenders from the pretenders.  The Chargers' record in December under Turner is 13-0.  He has also gotten the Chargers to at least the Divisional round of the playoffs in each of his 3 seasons.

The decisions listed above strongly suggest each of the following traits in Norv Turner: 

  • A willingness to examine weaknesses and correct them.
  • Willingness and ability to make major schematic adjustments on the fly.
  • The autonomy and trust to hold players and coaches accountable for undisciplined or erratic play, without losing the staff or the locker room.
  • The roster knowledge needed to select the right player for any given play or moment.
  • A talent for picking the assistant coaches who can get the most out of their players.
  • Most importantly, a gift for rising to the occasion.

Sounds like a good Head Coach to me.  Many other, better known coaches will stubbornly stick to their guns, even if it takes the team down with them.

Further, I think it pretty obvious that the quality of a head coach is proportional to the quality of his players.  It goes without saying that Turner has players in San Diego that he never had in Washington or Oakland.

Norv Turner has done the job he was brought here to do.  I say thanks to Norv for giving us the best QB the Chargers have had since Dan Fouts - a championship-caliber QB.   With a record of 31-16 in almost 3 full seasons, as well as a 3-2 record in the postseason, I also say Norv has earned the opportunity to finish the work he has started in San Diego.

Now, about those slow starts...

Comment 17 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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Excellent article

Norv has definitely grown on me this season, and in my mind should be the favorite for coach of the year.

by sdpads24 on Jan 2, 2010 1:12 PM PST reply actions  

Regarding the slow starts

They’re nothing new. So I don’t know why everyone is quick to blame Norv for slow starts, but Marty, for whatever reason, gets a pass on the slow starts.

Let’s look at how the Chargers started last 6 seasons through the first four games of each season (and their eventual final record):

2004: 2-2 (12-4)
2005: 1-3 (9-7)
2006: 2-2 (14-2)
2007: 1-3 (11-5)
2008: 2-2 (8-8)
2009: 2-2 (currently 12-3)

I’ve generally been a Norv defender, but started to consider getting onto the “maybe it’s time Norv moved on” bandwagon after the Denver loss this year.

However, nothing raises an “I’m a complete idiot and have no idea what I’m talking about” flag more so than a fan saying, “we should bring Marty back. 14-2, brah.” My usual response: “0-2. As in Marty’s playoff record in six years with the Chargers. Norv is 3-2 in two years. Which would you rather have?”

by creanium on Jan 2, 2010 1:19 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

I agree

Whenever i hear a fan say that Marty should be brought back i kinda judge them quickly because Norv has done more then what Marty ever did here.

The one and only AzDuck

by Dude52089 on Jan 2, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Most likely

The expectations with Marty weren’t as high. No one remembers the slow starts because no one made a big deal about them at the time. I don’t remember any one in the media referring to the Charger’s starts as slow until after the 14-2 season. Expectations had changed.

I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.

by Wonko on Jan 2, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Like you pointed out, no one remembered Marty’s “slow” starts because expectations were low. By the time Norv inherited the team, expectations were quite a bit higher because we finally had a consistently-competitive team.

When the Chargers went 1-3 in 2007, they were already had a worse record than all of 2006. So of course the new coach is the only thing worth blaming because it was the only thing that changed year-over-year. [/sarcasm]

But of course when the team started winning again, it was because Norv was just handed a team so full of talent, they were winning in spite of Norv. All the blame, none of the credit.

Good to see he’s finally getting some good recognition

by creanium on Jan 3, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Interestingly...

Our best start in the last 10 years was 2002, when we beat the Raiders in Oakland to get off to a 6-1 start. Of course, we tanked out last 4 games to finish 8-8.

"As a confirmed melancholic, I can testify that the best and maybe only antidote for melancholia is *action*. However, like most melancholics, I suffer also from sloth." - Edward Abbey.

by Jeff (sliderockmpc) on Jan 2, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

me too

I was one of those “norv has got to go” after the poor start. But, give him credit he has kept the team together. A lot of teams would have self destructed after getting off to a poor start. But, the players seem to give everything they got. Weather winning or losing, our guys don’t give up. They believe they can still win the game. Look at the pittsburgh game. Most teams would have given up. Even though it was almost impossible to win that game, the scared the steelers at the end by almost pulling it off. I think that might be the game when the players gained their confidence. I mean comming from that far behind against the defending S.B. champs? I think that’s when they reliazed, “Hey, we can beat anybody”. JMO

by irishlad on Jan 2, 2010 3:33 PM PST reply actions  

Good article.

Agree.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Jan 2, 2010 6:33 PM PST reply actions  

I really enjoyed the article Jeff

Props to you. Quick question. It’s only been a little more than a year since RR became the defensive coordinator. But I still couldn’t recall who made the decision to fire TC. You point out that it was Norv, and that AJ opposed it to some extent (AJ Smith was the one that hired Cottrell, so it wouldn’t be a complete surprise). I just wanted to ask whether this fact is/was well-established?

by HuangDi on Jan 2, 2010 7:45 PM PST reply actions  

Here's one of the articles.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jim_trotter/10/29/chargers.coaching/

What I remember reading somewhere (can’t remember where) was that Norv had made up his mind on the way back from London, A.J. told him to sleep on it. Norv decided to drop the hammer anyway. If I can fing the article, I’ll link to it.

"As a confirmed melancholic, I can testify that the best and maybe only antidote for melancholia is *action*. However, like most melancholics, I suffer also from sloth." - Edward Abbey.

by Jeff (sliderockmpc) on Jan 2, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I remember that

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Jan 3, 2010 6:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Continuity counts on a team....

First off..nicely laid out article

I do like where the Chargers are at and Norv has fair amount credit due for it as do the team itself maturing some.
1) All coaches are faced with unknowns; there are marks in which I feel coaches should be judged, one of them is how well does a coach adjust on the fly to a new obstacle. Norv has done a great job, a much better job than he did at Washington/Oakland…also an argument against the Rasheem Morris’s/McDaniels of the world, experience counts
2) Head coaches are accountable for locker room presence, a team’s focus and composure…Norv has done a real nice job here, but look at how many other teams that do well over several seasons, Philly/NE/Pittsburgh etc and you see consistency in the results, and very few players acting out
3) A coach with a team that relies on the draft and 2nd tier free agents needs to communicate and develop players…..just think if we had a coach to develop Trent Green/Wes Welker we wouldn’t have had to draft a Ryan Leaf or if we had a coach who smart to know he wasn’t ready nor was the team…before I digress into that abyss that was Gilbride

I wasn’t sold on Norv when he was hired, not that Oakland/Washington really affected my thinking; just look at those owners, no need to go further. I just wasn’t sure on his leadership. While I still think the goal should be the Superbowl, playing well year in, year out makes that far more likely and I have come to believe he has grasped the leadership role fairly well..

Last thoughts, I liked Marty because he took the Chargers out of the abyss that was Henning/Gilbride/Riley era……but he had baggage..really who runs 3 straight running plays up the gut so you can send a rookie kicker in for a field goal to whack a shot at 40+ in the rain…..also the Chargers had discipline problems in that game with the Patriots and I believe they weren’t mentally ready..so Marty gets my gratitude just out of shear joy of never seeing Gilbride or Henning or Riley again…Norv gets gets my gratitude as a fan, because I believe the Chargers have solid shots every year now.

by bo_shilo on Jan 2, 2010 8:28 PM PST reply actions  

I love that picture...

It looks like Norv is trying to tell the linesman that he knows the Chargers are going to win the Super Bowl and no matter what bad calls the refs make it won’t change things. It’s almost like he’s smiling, “Come on, look at the replay…alright, if we have to go downfield and score a TD on this play…”, Norv’s smirks make me very nervous.

by riversformvp on Jan 2, 2010 8:41 PM PST reply actions  

Funny things about coaches...

Is that everyone, especially the national media likes to beat up and pile on a coach. I remember how the media used to talk about how Bill Cowher couldn’t win the big one and his teams didn’t play well in the playoffs. Then he did win a Super Bowl, and now he’ll make a lot of money being someone’s “savior” if he chooses to be. The same things were said about Tony Dungy, and then he won a Super Bowl, and now he is a genius. I don’t think those guys suddenly became better coaches the year they won it all. They were always good coaches who had some breaks go their way. But we do apply a “Super Bowl Standard” to any coach, and any coach who hasn’t won a Super Bowl needs to run out of town as soon as the team loses back to back games.

Everyone likes to bring up Turner’s record at his previous stops, like that is at all relevant to how good of a coach he is today. What we can say about those previous stops is if the players aren’t there, no coach is going to turn that team into a playoff contender. I doubt Bill Walsh could have done much with those teams in Washington or Oakland. What we can also say is that he has had his team in the playoffs all three years. Each of the first two years, the Chargers have went further than the so called “experts” thought they would. This year, with the injuries and inconsistency on defense and a running game that was AWOL much of the time, Turner has his team finishing 13-3 or 12-4.

Because a coach hasn’t won a Super Bowl doesn’t mean he isn’t a good coach. 31 coaches won’t win the Super Bowl this year. I doubt all of them suck as head coaches. I think Turner has probably always been a decent coach. Probably some of those earlier experiences have made him a better coach now.And I think that is a sign of success in any profession. Someone who realizes something that is a weakness and either works to improve it or gets help on it.

At the end of the day, all a coach can do is get players prepared and put them in the right position to make plays. By all accounts, Norv Turner has done that. It may not be flashy, but given a reasonable roster, he has the Chargers in the thick of it every year. I don’t think you can ask a coach to do much more than that

by DCB on Jan 2, 2010 9:06 PM PST reply actions  

As Jeff pointed out

There’s something to be said for learning from experience and correcting past mistakes. I doubt Turner does things the same way here as he did in Washington and Oakland. Remember Snuder was only the owner for his last couple years in Washington.

Again, as Jeff pointed out, Turner is visibly better here than he was in his previous stops, and better than he was here in 2007 and 2008. He MAY finally have started to figure things out.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Jan 2, 2010 10:56 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Snyder, not Snuder.

If I have a bunch of typos and sound like Wonko, you can be sure it will say “via mobile” after my post.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Jan 2, 2010 11:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

very nice article

Well-constructed & a good read. I, like many Charger fans, was not enamored of the Norv/Cottrell team being selected after Marty’s departure. Cottrell proved to be a mistake – Norv has proven that I was the one mistaken. His demeanor is reflected in the team this year more than any to date. They’re calmer, self-assured without being cocky, & are confident in their ability to meet any challenge. Norv has taken Rivers to an elite level at QB. With the help of his DC, assistants, & the FO, he’s managed to keep a severely wounded team together.

Glad that you mentioned Chud’s name. IMO, this was one of the biggest & best moves made during the offseason. I was hoping that he would aid in the game management area & free Norv up to coach more. Seems that it has worked out well.

Kudos to Norv for weathering the s@*t storm & coming out on top.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Jan 3, 2010 8:32 AM PST reply actions  

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