Chargers vs. Seahawks Preseason Game Notes

by Brian (DaBolts) on Aug 16, 2009 12:53 PM PDT

I got lucky and scored a free seat from our programmer at work. Two things stick in my mind; one is Gregory's hit. I'm not usually a huge fan, but that was a playoff style hit he put on the receiver; it hurt just to watch. That is the kind of hit that will give receivers short arms and win games. The other thing amazing play was Malcom Floyd's catch where he just leaped up like he was the corner and took the ball away. This guy is a number one threat waiting in the wings; I'm ready to say he should be starting over Chambers.

The defense, without being spectacular stood up very well. Three turnovers hurt, but the front line was pretty stout against the run. It seemed like Vaughn Martin and Nwagbuo were out there most of the game, and they did well clogging up the run. I also noticed they were getting a lot of coaching on the sideline after the offense took the field. The QB attack was pretty mild, but it was pre-season after all. I did not see it with the first stringers, but the second stringers went with four guys knuckles in the dirt quite a bit. I wonder if we will a lot more 4-3 during the season. Should Nwagbuo make the squad? He looked awfully good.

Kevin Burnett looked like a starter; he played well against both the pass and the run. Cason looked terrific, but played mostly against the second string. He looks to be breaking up plays rather than just wrapping up the tackle this season. Legedu Naanee had good and bad moments. Buster Davis was out on the damn field and not limping a bit, he mostly looked good I thought. I don't why I'm always rooting for him to come through; he did give up on a route that contributed to an interception.

Gates was amazing with a one handed grab behind him early, but then didn't put both hands on the ball later and ended up bobbling it away, much too non-chalant from a player of his caliber. The third string TE has really soft hands, Kris Wilson was out there quite a bit, and I was more than a little impressed with his ability to get separation and catch.

LT was out there for a few plays, he made one great cut, the rest of the runs were fairly well stuffed. Gartrell Johnson is not the answer; he might not make the squad unless he picks up his game. He isn't afraid to run between the tackles, but you still have to go somewhere. The offensive line did not run block well, but it takes a while to wear down a defense and they didn't play long enough to do that. There did seem to be less of the power I run formation; I saw very little of Tolbert and think he is borderline gone already. Hester has made himself into a great nuissance blocker, he doesn't blast guys like LoNeal did, but finds a way to take out his man. Add in his ability to catch out of the backfield and he really adds a dimension this team didn't have before.

Both Rivers and Volek performed well; Charlie Whitehurst had an abysmal night. He must have been channeling his inner Kyle Orton because he was making terrible decisions all night until the very end. To be fair the backup offensive line was not at all sharp and Seattle was gettig pressure on him. A lot of folks find the pre-season dull, but that catch by Floyd and hit by Gregory were spectacular; man it was great to watch football again.

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thanks for this

good report

by nicklusk on Aug 16, 2009 10:07 PM PDT reply actions

Floyd vs Chambers

Floyd made a great catch, but he also dropped a third down pass that was very catchable. I think Floyd is a big play threat and great in the the red zone, but I don’t think that he is nearly as polished a receiver as Chambers.
I am not knocking Floyd, I like him and think he will be a factor for the Chargers this season, just don’t think he is ready to be a #1 threat as you suggested.

by JeromeB on Aug 17, 2009 7:55 AM PDT reply actions

Good Points

I actually put part of that drop on Rivers; the throw looked high over the middle and pretty much hung Floyd out to get drilled. Even so, I like that Floyd didn’t short arm it, he dropped the ball when he got hit by two defenders. The stats over at Football Outsiders show Floyd with a 73% catch rate vs. Chambers 52%. In terms of DVOA Chambers comes up average, while Floyd is off the chart:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Floyd is on the upward arc on his career, while Chambers is on the downward slope. There is no way Chambers is on this team next year; I’d like to see the transition sooner rather than later.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Aug 17, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Unless we draft someone or (snicker) sign a FA

Jackson, Floyd, and Nannee will be your WR trio in 2010.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Aug 17, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Which is amazing to me

because after 2007, I thought Floyd’s career with the Chargers was finished. No one was more surprised than me when they not only tendered him as a RFA in the 2008 off-season, but that he got significant playing time and contributed a lot.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Aug 17, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions

I would be perfectly happy with that

If I agreed with you, we would both be wrong

by Diesel85 on Aug 17, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Agreed

Although….and don’t laugh at this….if Buster and Naanee show significant progress during the season, I could see the Chargers walking away from VJ’s astronomical price.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Aug 17, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Makes sense

With all the big names with contracts coming up (Gates, Merriman, McNeil, Rivers and Jackson), they may have no choice but to let one go and take the comp. pick. I’d hate to see VJ go, but I too can see it happening.

by Hoot1969 on Aug 17, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions

AJ Smith

is my main reason for thinking this. Every move he’s made over the past few years seems to say “Why would I pay top-dollar for a player I could replace easily?”

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Aug 17, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions

This is true.

But then you have to ask yourself, “How easily can we replace Jackson?” And the answer is not very. Vincent is the first real elite wide receiver drafted and developed by the Chargers in a LONG time. As much as we may like them, I don’t think Davis, Floyd, or Nannee could do what Jackson does. They have different skill sets. Davis is a possession receiver. Floyd is a big, red-zone target. Nannee is a slot receiver/possession type.

Jackson can do everything. He can outrun the coverage for deep balls. He can go over the middle. He can run quick slants. That’s why he’s so much more valuable than those other guys, and so much harder to replace. I think they’ll pay him.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Aug 17, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Patriots

Money saved on VJ can be spent somewhere else (McNeill, Rivers, Merriman, etc.). The Patriots won 3 super bowls (or was it 2?) without a decent WR on the team. Moss adds a great threat and they had their best season, but their weakness (no money for the secondary) was exposed in the Super Bowl. Can Rivers effective enough without VJ that it’s worth it to save that money? I say yes.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Aug 17, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions

It's possible.

Jackson was responsible for 25% of Rivers’s yards last year, though. I don’t know how replaceable he is.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Aug 17, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Stats are nice, But

Stats are a lot of fun to look at and every once in a while they actually mean something. WR is a tough position to create a formula that will kick out usefull numbers. One problem with the “Catch Rate” is that it only looks at passes “intended for” and “passes caught”. It does not look at which passes were poorly thrown, or intentionally thrown away, by the QB, or passes that were deflected away by a defender.
Cards WR Early Doucet had a Catch rate of %82 while Larry Fitzgerald’s was %62, I guess Early should go in and ask the Cards for a pay raise.

Again I am not anti Floyd, I like him and I would have no problem if going into next season the top three WRs on the Chargers were VJ, Floyd and Nannee. If this does turn out to be the case I would prefer that VJ and Nannee were the starters however because to me VJ and Floyd are both deep threats, while Nannee is more of a possession receiver.
If it is 3rd and 6 and the ball is in the air I am more comfortable seeing it heading towards Chambers than I am Floyd (at this point in their careers). However I have been wrong before.

by JeromeB on Aug 17, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions

But he didn't say that based only on catch rate

He said that both his catch rate and his DVOA were better. This is not true for Doucet’s DVOA (-4.4%) vs. Fitzgerald’s (19.7%).

And catch rate would look at passes that are poorly thrown, they would fall under “intended for”. Deflections and throwaways are probably not useful when trying to evaluate a receiver. The real problem with catch rate is that a receiver could be catching a lot of screen passes and not going anywhere while another receiver could be getting deep balls and making big plays, but having a few more go uncaught. But, that’s why you need to DVOA to see who is doing more with the passes intended. Obviously, Floyd is doing more with the passes intended for him. Chambers, most likely because he catch at a high percentage, is not doing nearly as much.

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 17, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

*Last sentence should be

Chambers, most likely because he doesn’t catch at a high percentage, is not doing nearly as much.

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 17, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions

?

How would passes intentionally thrown away effect the passes caught stat?

Doucet vs. Fitzgerald. Doucet’s stats say that in 2008, he had a better chance of catching a ball thrown at him (same QB as Fitz, so same chance of getting a well-thrown ball from Warner) than Larry did. Does it make him better? Nope, because he’s not double-covered and he’s facing the defense’s dimeback (since he’s the #4 receiver on AZ).

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Aug 17, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Intentionally thrown away pass?

A pass that is intentionally thrown away may still be ruled as “intended for” a certain WR, this would then affect his rate.

Your response about Doucet is exactly my point, perhaps I made it poorly. It is not the first time.

by JeromeB on Aug 17, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions

These guys are crazy about stats and they take into account things like “that ball was intentionally thrown out of bounds towards a receiver to avoid an intentional grounding call”. Trust me.

The catch rate requires that you read into the situation a little bit. A high catch rate is great, but the more catches you have (and the higher you are on the depth chart), the more important that high catch rate is. The catch rate is not a catch-all stat, but it’s an interesting one to look at when you’re evaluating 1s and 2s.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Aug 17, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Good Points

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Floyd is on the upward arc on his career, while Chambers is on the downward slope. There is no way Chambers is on this team next year; I’d like to see the transition sooner rather than later.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Aug 17, 2009 9:25 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs

Meh

I was blown away until I actually looked at the other players. The players with a high DVOA are merely the guys that are deep-threats. They include a lot of players that can’t run a route and have bad hands (Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem, Miles Austin, etc.), but are blessed with speed and by playing against nickel backs.

Chris Chambers has lost some of his speed and is our “possession” receiver who can run routes and make big catches. Floyd and Jackson both have huge numbers because they were thrown a lot of deep balls.

I personally like that DYAR stat better. It lays out more of an even playing field. Floyd’s 200 puts him above Bernard Berrian, Wes Welker, Lee Evans, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, etc. Chamber’s 64 puts him around the level of Patrick Crayton, Reggie Williams, Marvin Harrison….that makes more sense. My question is how the heck is Dwayne Bowe so low in both DYAR and DVOA?

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Aug 17, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions

While the deep threat thing is somewhat true

That’s why it’s better to have larger sample sizes. Obviously, Floyd’s sample size is a little hard to make a clear cut conclusion. It is promising though.

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 17, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions

We've talked about Bowe here before

He catches a lot of balls at the line of scrimmage that don’t go anywhere and those hurt your value. He may have also racked up some yards on plays that had little value (13 yard gains on 4th and 14 or something, but I’m just pulling that out of thin air as a potential example).

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 17, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions

I too like to look at DYAR first

But, such as when you compare Brees to Rivers last year, you then want to peak at DVOA to see who was actually doing better per play. That’s when you realize that Brees only provided more value because he threw the ball 137 more times. You could do the same for Andre Johnson and Roddy White. Johnson shows up as better, but only because he got thrown to 23 more times. In DVOA they are equal. Because it’s not really White’s fault that the Falcons didn’t use him quite as much as the Texans used Johnson.

I’m also hesitant to “not like” the numbers because of who shows up at the top of the list. The list is just a byproduct of the methodology. The complaints should be about that and not about who shows up where on the list.

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 17, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Best way to judge talent

I am old fashion, but I still think the best way to judge talent is to watch the players play on the field.
In my opinion Fantasy sports has led to an avalanche of number crunching in football. There are just to many factors in real football to base a WRs ability on a formula.
The type of offense a team runs, the quarterback, the spot that the WR plays in the offense (i.e. the x or y), some WRs spot in their particular offense allows them to run patterns that are more “stat friendly”. Also a QB may have more (or even too much) faith in a certain WR and throw him the ball when he probably shouldn’t. These as well as many other factors are why I think actually watching the games is a better way of judging.
Like I said before, nothing against Floyd, I would be fine with VJ, Floyd and Nannee being the top 3 WRs on SD next season.

by JeromeB on Aug 17, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions

I still think the best way to judge talent is to watch the players play on the field.

I agree with what Wonko said on the numbers side. I also agree with your statement here; but in my eyes Floyd is both figuratively and literally head and shoulders above Chambers. Chambers has some technique that Floyd lacks so I wouldn’t deny he is more polished, on the other hand I think Floyd makes catches that Chambers just would never get to. I see that reflected in the numbers.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Aug 17, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Defending Chambers

I am surprised at the number of people that think Floyd is better than Chambers, and it seems very odd to me that you seem to think Floyd is clearly better than Chambers. To me Chambers has proven over his 8 seasons as a starter in the NFL that he is a quality WR. Granted he is getting older (31 when this season begins) and maybe his game has slipped a little bit. But when he got here in 07 he had some big games for the Chargers and a damn good post season ( 16 rec 278 yds). I think his down year last season was more due to his ankle injury than any slip in his play. He has made some ureal catches over his career as well.

Floyd has a lot of “potential”. I like his big plays, I hope that he becomes a starter and has long great career in the NFL, but he better hurry (believe it or not Floyd has been with the Chargers for 5 seasons and will be 28 when the season begins). To this point in his career he reminds me a lot of Demetrius Williams on Baltimore, when I say that he reminds me of him I am talking about when I watch them play, not their DVOAs or DYARs.

Time will tell, maybe Floyd will beat out Chambers this year, and maybe he will have a better career than Chambers, being a Charger fan I hope he does.
Here are some stats for the numbers fans:
Chambers 8 seasons – 473 recs – 6705 yds: Play offs – 24 recs – 407 yds: 1 Pro Bowl
M. Floyd 5 seasons – 52 recs – 821 yds: Play offs – 0 recs – 0 yds:
I am a charger fan and will be rooting for Floyd, but to this point in his career he has proven that he is a pretty good deep threat when he is healthy.

by JeromeB on Aug 18, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm surprised there are many people that think Chambers is all that good.

And throwing out the old school numbers doesn’t help prove any case because they are ignoring important parts of each players games that the advanced numbers take into account. Especially with Chambers, because if he catch passes at a decent percentage he’d have over 100 more receptions and ~1200 more yards.

As for the “watching players on the field”, just because it’s the best way, doesn’t mean it’s possible. I personally can’t watch every player in the NFL for every play and doubt there are many in the NFL or NFL media that can either. So it’s a pie in the sky hope. That’s why we have statistics, because they do “see” every play. And they don’t forget about the drop that happened when we spilled our beer on the floor and they don’t overrate a player who make “the craziest catch you ever saw” but went on to drop 3 others that would have helped his team win. I’d rather be the new school numbers nerd that considered an entire player’s performance and graded things out at a standardized level based on years of data of comparable plays than an old school traditionalist that tries to value the things that he sees and hopes his memory is good enough to keep track of every play that’s ever occurred by any player in the modern era and compare that to the play he just saw. I’ll go the stats route look at how a player rates and when the results don’t match up with what you thought, you can go back and double check by watching film. Chances are the stats are remembering things that you don’t while there also being a couple nuances the stats didn’t pick up on…yet.

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 18, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Not calling anyone a nerd

I do not want to offend anyone that loves stats, or plays fantasy football, I have been in the same 16 team Dynasty league for 17 years and I enjoy it. My intention was not to call anyone a nerd, sorry if you took it that way. I think that stats are a very valuable tool in sports (some sports more so than others). The only point that the old school stats point out is that Chambers has been on the field playing football and Floyd has not. Floyd just has not played that much in the NFL, maybe it is lack of talent or maybe it is the man keeping him down. Do I think that the stats used at footballousiders.com provide an accurate ranking of the WRs in the NFL, probably not.

Have I seen every NFL game ever played? No. Have I seen far more than my wife would like me to have? Yes.
Have I ever spilled my beer during a game? Never, I take my beer to seriously.
I have watched every Charger game since 1973, and a great percentage of them I have watched more than once. Do I remember them all perfectly? No.

My main intent of the post was to point out that I am surprised most people seem to think an unproven talent with a lot of potential like Floyd is considered better than a proven player like Chambers.

It is not just me who thinks that Chambers has more value:
Chambers was drafted in the second round.
Floyd was a UDFA
After 6 Years with Miami, Chambers was traded for a secound round pick
No teams made Floyd an offer when his contract was up.
Chambers is going to his 9th NFL training camp and each time the Head Coach has named him as a starter.
Floyd is in his 6th NFL camp and it just has not happened yet.
Can some of these facts be explained away? Of course, as can anything.
It appears that GMs and Coaches feel that Chambers is the better player as well, but maybe they have not checked out his DVOAs.
Things change every year in sports, maybe this year Floyd beats out Chambers and has a great NFL career. But to this point in their careers their is just no comparison.

Please note I do not wish to, or think that I am able to change anybody’s mind. I am just giving my opinion, I encourage everyone to judge a players ability on any method that they feel has merit.

by JeromeB on Aug 18, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Floyd just has not played that much in the NFL, maybe it is lack of talent or maybe it is the man keeping him down.

Maybe he is just developing? Not every player springs fully formed from Zeus’ brow; VJ was pretty mediocre until he wasn’t. First you state watching a player is the best way to judge, but then you pull the fallacy of experts out; the coaches think so, so he must be better. Then the fact that he was selected in the second round (more experts). Then his historical stats.

When I watched him last year he looked to catch more passes per attempt, and that seems to be backed up by stats from a source I respect; but beyond that just watching him catch he appears to have softer hands and his additional six inches in height let him get to balls better and take more jump balls away than Chambers. It does look to me like Chambers is a better route runner and has better technique in disguising when the ball is coming; neither is big on yards after the catch. Chambers just does drop more passes. I’m ok with folks coming to the opposite view too; but find it strange on the one hand you want to reject the Football Outsider numbers from last year; but then go to his full career stats to say categorically he is better this year. Maybe in his prime he was better, I didn’t watch him then; he certainly was a crucial cog in 2007, it just doesn’t appear that way to me any more.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Aug 18, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Not trying to cause a fight

Anyone can read stats on a ton of different web sites, I enjoy hearing other chargers fan’s opinions. I threw a few stats out because some people seem to think that an opinion is not enough.
It could be that Floyd is developing but he is 28 so if he does not hit his stride fast he will already being headed down.
The only reason that I pointed out some of the “experts” opinions is to show that I was not all alone on this island. Any team honestly could have signed Floyd in the off season for a 2nd round pick, but none chose to.
I feel Chambers is still pretty close to his prime, most would agree he played pretty well as the starter in 07, he played hurt most of last year and I happen to think he will have a good season this year.
Look I don’t want to cause any trouble, I will try to keep my opinions more in line with the mass.

by JeromeB on Aug 18, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Look I don’t want to cause any trouble, I will try to keep my opinions more in line with the mass.

Take it from someone who suggested the Chargers should have benched VJ in the playoff’s against Pittsburgh, we don’t all have to sing the same song.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Aug 19, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions

I thought I called myself a nerd

I didn’t realize that could be an insult.

I just think that there needs to be some outside the box thinking. The numbers have pointed for years that Chambers was not a #1 receiver, but yet coaches keep putting him there. Probably because of his yardage totals and being picked in the 2nd round. The arguments for him seem to go in circles where each point defends the previous one, but none of it belies how well he is producing on the field.

The argument posited here against Floyd points more to him being a less accomplished receiver than Chambers. You will get no argument from me there because Floyd hasn’t been given many of the opportunities as Chambers. I simply would like it to be considered that he has developed into a better receiver than Chambers, or at the very least, a better big play receiver than Chambers (since there is no way to measure all the little things done when Chambers doesn’t have the ball). I would also argue that one of the main reasons he stays a starting WR is that he is a respected veteran with a certain sense of status in the league and the coaches don’t want to embarrass him or lose his leadership abilities by demoting him in favor of a less proven player (like Floyd or Naanee) and at the same time don’t want to cut him because it provides good depth to have more good receivers on the team.

The other point that could be taken away is that when a receiver puts up as good of production numbers (i.e. DVOA) as Floyd did, then there deserves to be an audit of what is going on. Especially when you are comparing him to someone like Chambers who has consistently put up average or mediocre numbers. The team should give themselves every possible means to know if they have a potential playmaker on their hands.

Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.

by Wonko on Aug 19, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

This may shock you, but

I would agree with almost everything that you have written in this post. I do think that Floyd has shown improvement each year and flashes of being a big time WR, and if given the chance he may prove to be a better starter than Chambers. I actually hope that this does happen, if Floyd is better than Chambers then the Chargers become a better team which in turns makes me a happier person. I do think that if Floyd proves to the coaches he is a more valuable than Chambers, they will find a way to get him on the field.
Maybe I am not seeing Chambers play clearly and I may be too optimistic about what he can do for the Chargers this season. But he never got to play with a QB anywhere near Rivers ability in Miami. I thought that he had a good year when he got here in the middle of the 07 season, and I am attributing his down year last season to his injured ankle ( I may be wrong).

This will look like I am making excuses for Chambers but I am not, as I don’t think he needs any, just thought you might enjoy seeing a list of the QBs that he had throwing him the ball in his Miami days: Brian Griese, Ray Lucas, Jay Fiedler, AJ Feely, Gus Frerotte, Joey Harrington, John Beck, Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon.

Lets hope that Floyd gets his chance to prove just how good he is this season.

Of course it is fake but I thought you might enjoy it.

by JeromeB on Aug 20, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions

My post was real, I tried to post a link to a fake bit

http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEKlzwi_G5Y

Tried to post this as a link in my previous post but it did not take so I just typed it out here. The link is to a Chambers fake fantasy bit.

by JeromeB on Aug 20, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions

I understand the QB thing

But, it seems like with different QBs he would have had different performance levels even if all the QBs sucked. But, it always stayed about the same.

I will say he’s definitely benefited from the Chargers system. The working theory being that with the Dolphins they were forcing him to make plays to drive their offense and it would result in bad performance since teams weren’t going to let him run after the catch (i.e. short hooks or screens on 3rd down where he’s double covered, makes the catch and can’t get a first down or similar stuff on other downs where he can’t get enough yards to make it an above average play). The Chargers offense allows him to be open more and make more productive pays (i.e. first downs, touchdowns, big gains), but he still catches the ball at less than acceptable %, which leads me to believe there are a number of receivers that could perform better in the same role.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Aug 20, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Martin has a good ways to go

I’m high on the kid, but he showed Sat. night that he has much to learn about the NFL game. At times he looked pretty lost. Jamal jumped over him at least once to make a play. I still say that, in time, he’ll show himself to be more DT/NT than DE. Has much to learn about leverage.

Nwagbuo looked good – he could possibly be Jamal’s b/u this year if he continues to show well. I’d like to see Grennan on the roster this year, too.

As for Floyd & CC – 2 different animals. CC is more of a slot type of guy, where Floyd is a deep threat & red zone weapon with his height. CC, barring injury, has been money since he came to SD, but I have a strong feeling that this is his last year in bolts.

If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!

Robert Hunter

by Buck Melanoma on Aug 18, 2009 12:40 PM PDT reply actions