Chargers Offensive Line Depth Chart and Position Battles
Draft - Done, Free Agency - Mostly Done. AJ says they guys we have now are the guys we are going to start the season with.
Offensive line is a position group that can make an old RB look like an All-Pro or a 29 year old RB looks like he is over the hill. I think the main factor contributing to LT's dropping per carry average over the past few years has been the O Line's troubles. Last year we had injury problems. Hardwick was injured and missed the first few games and wasn't right until mid way through the season. McNeil had a neck injury that plagued him all year (he is still recovering from it). Goff got real old between 07 and 08 and lost a lot of effectiveness. Clary, in his first full year starting (he stepped in mid 07 for Shane Olivea), was pretty good against mediocre or worse DEs. He was really exposed against the better DEs. Part of that could have been due to Goff's demise, but part of it is learning the position on the job. Over the last 3 years we have transitioned from a "we will run when and where we want to run" O Line to a "I hope we can conver this 3rd and 1" O Line. We wll see if that changes this year.
The offensive line was addressed in the draft by bringing in Louis Vasquez (Guard) and Tyronne Green (Center and maybe guard). A lot of us were worried about the RT position that Clary occupied last year and that position wasn't addressed in the draft or FA. Mike Goff, starting RG departed in the off season and Kynan Forney sign a mid-sized 2 year contract to replace him. Jeremy Newbury was our backup center and started a few games last year and he will not be back.
So now that the pieces are in place, its time to throw together a preliminary depth chart and have a look at our depth and any potential position battles looming.
| Name | Position(s) | Experience | Max Games Started in a Season | Max Games Played in a Season | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Marcus McNeil | LT | 4 | 16 | 16 | Pro Bowl, recovered from neck injury? |
| Kris Dielman | LG | 7 | 16 | 16 | Pro Bowl |
| Nick Hardwick | C | 6 | 16 | 16 | Pro Bowl |
| Kynan Forney | RG | 9 | 16 | 16 | Pro Bowl Alternate in 2005 with Atlanta. No games playes last year with Bolts, active for 3 games. Sign 2 year $4.8M deal in off season. |
| Jeromey Clary | RT | 3 | 16 | 16 | Starter for ~1.5 seasons |
| Scott Mruczkowski | G, C | 5 | 1 | 15 | Merch-COW-ski. 7th Round 2005. New 3 year contract in offseason. Started 1 game in 2008 for Dielman when he had stomach virus. Also replaced Dielman after the "phantom punch" |
| L.J. Shelton | T | 11 | 16 | 16 | 2nd year with Chargers. Started 2 games last year in place of injured McNeil. |
| Corey Clark | T | 1 | 7th Round 2008. Waived for one week in 2008 in roster move, re-signed following week. | ||
| Brandyn Dombrowski | G, T | 1 | UDFA 2008, Practice squad all last year. SDSU baby! | ||
| Louis Vasquez | G | R | 3rd Round 2009 | ||
| Tyronne Green | C | R | 4th Round 2009 |
UDFA 2009 - Ryan McDonald, C; Ben Muth, G; Sam Allen, G, T; Dan Gay, T;
Position Starters / Battles
LT - Marcus McNeil - If he is healthy he is as good as they come
LG - Kris Dielman - Stud
C - Nick Hardwick - Heart and Soul (and Brain) of the offensive line.
RG - Here is our first position battle. There are a lot of unknowns here. Pre-draft, I think we were assuming Kynan Forney would have the inside track. He is a veteran who has had some success. Although why he didn't see the field at all last year is a bit of a mystery. Pre-draft, Forney's biggest threat was probably coming from Scott Mruczkowski. Scott was the first guard off the bench last year and spent some quality time on the field, with one start in place of Dielman and lots of game time with the offense in injury replacement and giving guys a break. Louis Vasquez is the rookie everyone was talking about after minicamp. He definately looks the part, whether he plays the part remains to be seen. One potential draw back is that he did come out of a spread offense at Texas Tech. Lots of pass blocking with wide splits and not much run blocking. Didn't have his hand on the ground a lot. There will be some adjustment, especially for a guard, coming out of this style of offense. It should be a good battle and I would expect Forney and his new contract to start, although it wouldn't surprise me too much if Vasquez won the job in camp. I think Mruczkowski is a too valuable as a versatile backup and will have to really knock people's socks off to have them give up their security blanket with the difficult to pronounce name,
RT - Jeromey Clary - Going into the draft, we all thought we were going to draft someone to challenge Clary. You know what? We didn't draft a single tackle. Hrrmph. Looks like Clary is going to start here. We have mixed opinions on Clary. We like his brute strength, but notice that he needs help stopping the upper echelon of pass rushers (the guys we see every week in the playoffs). Some try to pin his failings on Goff's poor play last year and I can see how that could happen. Either way, I don't see anyone challenging Clary, so he is what we've got.
Game Day Actives - These are the guys you count on as your backups on a week to week basis. LJ Shelton at either tackle position, veteran and can step in and play and not skip a beat. Scott Mruczkowski is the first guy off the bench for either guard position, has also played some center. Louis Vasquez the rookie will probably be in the mix, although if he has trouble adjusting, he might be inactive until he gets it together. The Chargers usually had 8 active lineman, so if Vasquez is inactive we might see Brandyn Dombrowski here or maybe the other rookie Tyronne Green.
Game Day Inactives - These guys are on the roster but are wearing sweats on the sidelines. This usually will only change week to week because of injury or a rookie getting it together. Corey Clark was on the roster all last year so there had to be some faith in his abilities. I don't know enough about him to think he might push Clary, so I'm going to assume he is going to fill the same role as last year essentially backing up the backup, and will be inactive week to week. Plus whichever of Dombrowski, Vasquez, and Green and not active. And one of those 4 might not make it. If I had to guess, I would say Clark sticks around because he is the other backup tackle with experience. Green and/or Dombrowski could be on the practice squad.
UDFAs who mght make some noise. I like Dan Gay. Although he is probably a practice squadder at most this year.
Depth Analysis
I really like our depth. We've got battle tested backups in Shelton and Mruczkowski and a good mix of young guys coming up through the ranks from the practice squad and inactive lists. We've got a 3rd round rookie who could push a starter or start. All said, I feel good with the depth. I think our questions remain on the right side with Forney and Clary, but I'm optimistic that Forney can find his place on the line and Clary will be improved with another year and RG upgraded. Health-wise, we are much better off this year than last year. McNeil was held out of minicamp, but hopefully that was just precautionary, we'll see.
1 recs |
23 comments
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Comments
I voted Improvement
But I think my main reasoning behind that is the lack of injuries. Last year we essentially started with 3 injured offensive linemen and they fought through injuries all year it seemed. Say what you will about Clary, the kid stayed healthy. If the line can start the season healthy it’s one of the best O-lines in football.
As far as why Forney didn’t play in 2008, Norv says it was to give Forney some time to heal up and learn the playbook.
Although I’m ok with Clary at RT, I would love to see him get pushed in training camp by LJ Shelton. Shelton always had big potential but never really lived up. Perhaps sitting on the sideline for the better part of last season will help him and Forney to play to the best of their abilities.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 8, 2009 6:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm a little nervous about LJ being an every week starter
He is at that point in his career where OTs start to break down. Johnathon Ogden lasted 12 years. Orlando Pace really dropped off in year 12. I think LJ can be a highly effective backup for another 5 years, but if he starts week in and week out, he could begin breaking down at any point.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Now I feel old. I had no idea that he had been in the league that long. I thought it had been 6 or 7 years. I agree with you.
You can add Jon Runyan to that last also. He was awful last year.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 8, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if McNeil is healthy
they will be much improved over last season.
Hardwick will start the year healthy which I think will be a big help.
Also Forney will be an improvement over Goff. Goff was once a very good player and the leader of the O-line but I think he lost a step last season and Hardwick has stepped in as the leader.
by Steve (Grey Suit) on May 8, 2009 8:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My concern is McNeil's health
It seems obvious to me that the Chargers plan to run mostly to the left side AGAIN this year. [too predictable grumble, grumble]
But in his limited time here Marcus has some significant mileage. He broke both hand, had his knee scoped, and this neck injury? – Not good at all.
When they write things like "stinger" I read neurological injury. And I think about things like permanent loss of strength in the afflicted arm.
When they write neck surgery (and I can’t find a reference about the procedure he had), I think about spinal fusion. Fusion limits range of motion and broadly impacts your athleticism. And fusions are very bad situations. They lead to further neck injury, way serious complications. I just hope Marcus doesn’t get permanently maimed or killed trying to come back from this neck injury.
I am concerned that Marcus McNeil will not fully return to the level of performance of his rookie season. If the left tackle does not come though, we go from being predictable to a one-dimensional passing team.
by Trendsearcher on May 8, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a bit pessimistic
From what I’ve read, McNeil’s neck problems were more about pain and lack of movement than any weakness. Also, since the surgery McNeil has said that his neck feels great and essentially they went in to “get rid of the pain and clean it up so I don’t develop problems down the line.” Sounds fairly minor to me.
I know people get tired of us running to the left, but I don’t see why. LT won an MVP running left. So did Shaun Alexander. Until this last year, running left always worked for us. This year it didn’t work as well because of injuries to the LT, LG, C and HB. Part of the problem is having three pro bowlers on the center/left side of the line and none on the right, but another part of the problem is that Dielman and McNeil are not great at pulling down the line and helping on runs to the right. They’re both very slow and McNeil is not very athletic (at least he didn’t seem like it in 2008). They’re much better at driving forward or holding the line. So I think even if Vasquez is a great run blocker and Clary develops further, you’re still probably going to see more runs to the left than the right.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 8, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just about running left.
The left side is also protecting PR’s blindside.
by Ed in LJ on May 8, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of the reasons McNeil dropped to us in the 2nd round
was due to a neck/spinal condition. I think it was something like a “narrowing” that led some teams to think he would not be able to stand up to the pounding. It was more a genetic thing rather than some injury.
Luckily, the OT position doesn’t rely on the head impacts too much. In fact I’ve heard of some college teams teaching proper pass protection technique by forcing the OTs to practice without face masks: head up, use your hands and feet (might just be a story). Of course it is football and head impacts will happen, but maybe it’s not a huge concern. If it does permanently reduce his strength, then that is another story.
Remember those tiny kicker shoulder pads Tony Boselli used to wear? I think he could have played without pads in his prime and been fine.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 8, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any reference on the procedure McNeil received?
I remember reading about lower back problems when he was coming into the league.
They reported a stinger 12/11/07 (I rememeber the hit, he was already on the ground and got kicked in the back of the head) and had him on the injury report in the weeks following. These spinal cord type traumas can take months to really show their impact. During the summer of ’09 it seems like his symptoms were deepening (evidenced by the camp and preseason PUP). Then the recent neck surgery???
Necks are not knees, you can’t just go in and clip some cartilage, re-attach some ligaments and call it cleaned up. Likely if he had pain great enough to require surgery we are in the area of spinal cord impingement. The fix for this type of issue is not simple. Some possible procedures would be disk removal and fusion or disk removal and replacement with an implant (new technology).
I’ve had that type of surgery (fusion) – they couldn’t pay me enough money to get back on the field after that surgery. With fusion, we are talking instant paralysis or death from one hit.
Does anybody have a reference about the procedure he received?
by Trendsearcher on May 8, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that hit too
But the team keeps saying the neck injury was due to a stretching incident from camp last year… Maybe the incidents were related.
McNeill had surgery in February to repair the problem, an outpatient procedure that really hasn’t hampered his preparation for the season – NCT
McNeil has called it a “cleanup” AJ Smith called it “major” and the rehab time was put at 5 months. AJ also said he would be fine by training camp (from his presser 4:30 mark or so). I also have seen that it was related to a bulging disk.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read that recent spin too Outpatient (and laughed), "Out As a Patient" for 5 months. The news has characterized it from serious to stubbed toe. What gives? Merriman hurts his knee, and the media doesn’t say Shawn is having knee surgery… No they say he’s having PCL reconstruction…
With Merriman we know the specific ligament. With McNeill its NECK surgery.
- There are 7 vertebra in the neck;
- Total body function passes through the spinal cord;
-The vertebra are basically 1.5 inch disks with ¼ inch gaps between them for the disks, very small and delicate structures in the neck.
- There are dozens of muscles in the neck to be damaged by "neck surgery".
The neck is a very complicated, and it is a bit discouraging that the media swallows the simple "neck surgery" line so placidly. Why don’t they just write surgery "Not Otherwise Specified"? We don’t know what’s wrong with the guy we’ll just operate until he stops complaining about the pain. It is a bit frustrating.
The most common surgical treatment for an issue like bulging disk is disk removal and spinal fusion. This is microscopic brain surgery. This should be career ending surgery. They do now have disk replacement, maybe he comes back with this procedure. I wonder how they keep the fake disk from squirting out and jacking his spinal cord after the first stick.
by Trendsearcher on May 11, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless everyone is lying
I bet it wasn’t a fusion. I did some in depth research (quick look at webMD :-) ) and it seems to indicate that spinal fusion is not out-patient. When McNeil refers to it as a clean up, that sounds consistent with the typical disk clean up procedure where the parts of the disk that are pressing against the nerves are removed.
I suspect that if it was projected to be a big problem this year, that AJ would have drafted a tackle at some point in the draft or gotten something in FA. Because he didn’t, I think everyone thinks McNeil will be ready to go by the season (for whatever that is worth)
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 12, 2009 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vasquez can't run block?
Why no mention of Vasquez in the Shrine Game?
He showed versatility there—showed he could run block.
I don’t think it’s a worry with this guy—he’ll be capable of starting from week 1.
Whether he beats out Forney is another question, but suffice to say the we should be covered at RG.
Definite improvement.
by FCBolt82 on May 8, 2009 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Run Blocking
is mostly about size, strength and nastiness. Pass blocking is where technique comes into play more. So I think Vasquez will be fine.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 8, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point about the shrine game
Charger’s OLine coach Raye thinks he can run block, story
It was a concern, the Shrine game seemed to address it, but we’ll see. Conceptually, a spread offense guard has a different skill set than an NFL guard. That may not be the case with Vasquez.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
Raye is Director of Player Personnel, not oline coach
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Take
Vasquez. They’ll never officially say this, but the RG job is his to lose. The only two ways I see him losing the job is if Forney outperforms him. If it’s a tie, then my gut says they’ll give it to Vasquez. The one exception might be if they both have bad camps, then maybe Forney’s experience wins that battle.
Green. There is no way he goes to the Practice Squad. Somebody else will take him. There were multiple teams that wanted this guy if the Chargers hadn’t taken him where they did (I know that seems weird to say for a late rounder, but it’s the buzz I’m getting).
Clark. I think they are going to let him compete with Clary for the RT job and if he doesn’t win that then barring a Shelton injury I don’t seem him making this team, especially if Gay has a good camp.
Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.
by Wonko on May 8, 2009 2:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that RG battle will be a good one.
I tend to agree that they will favor potential over experience even if potential is not quite as good currently as the experienced player.
I bet Clark makes the team. Otherwise we have no young backups for the tackle position. Dombrowski is not much of a tackle prospect. Gay can go to the practice squad whereas Clark can’t since he was on the roster all last year. Unless Gay is as good as Clark and has more potential I bet clark makes the team and Gay goes to the practice squad, kind of like a making a roster move in baseball based on who has the minor league options.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the Gay-Clark thing is this
If Gay is as good as Clark because Clark isn’t showing much, then I don’t see the Chargers choosing to keep Clark around. If Clark does well and Gay steps up. Then I don’t see them wanting to risk sneaking Gay onto the practice squad. Only time will tell, but just from past experience with Charger OL roster management, they aren’t going to get too clingy with a guy like Clark. They have a love ’em or leave ’em sort of relationship with those types of guys.
Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.
by Wonko on May 8, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're probably right
Clark did get cut for a week last year and no one picked him up. They could probably cut him again and pick him up during the season if needed. Sort of a “home reserve” designation :-)
It all depends on if Gay does well, otherwise I think Clark is our backup to the backup for tackle and is inactive every week barring injuries.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 8, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McNeils "as good as they come when healthy" really?
Yes he did go to a pro bowl as an alternate but he’s better than Orlando Pace and Jonathan Ogden in their primes? Better than Walter Jones and Joe Thomas and even Jake Long or Ryan Clady? Hardly. Maybe top half left tackle but not much more, he’s not a dominant run blocker and has problems at times with speed rushers. Let’s not let AJ or the U-T hyperbole make us believe we have a pro bowler at every position a la homer, clueless Lakers fans. All the Charger superbowl talk comes from inflated press clippings, other than two underdog victories against the Colts – our “Superbowl, most talented in the NFL” roster has a lot to prove.
At least Al Davis isn't running my team's drafts.
by bringbackbuddytrees on May 12, 2009 8:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I probably should have said
“As good as you can reasonably hope for” when healthy. Unless you have a top 5 pick, you are not going to get a Pace or Ogden or Thomas. I think I would put a healthy McNeil in the Clady range and in the top 10 (meaning top third as opposed to your top half) You can say he has trouble with speed rushers, but he didn’t give up a sack his rookie year, so we may need to agree to disagree there. In addition, there are plenty of “elite” LTs who can’t run block very well, see Walter Jones, and I think McNeil is serviceable in that regard.
If he can play how he played his rookie year, I don’t think we can ask for anything more. If we get the sophomore slump McNeil or the injured third year McNeil, we will be talking about his replacement next year at this time. I’m optimistic, I think if he is healthy he will be very good. I’m more worried about his injuries and his inability to play through them than his skill set when healthy
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 13, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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