The San Diego Chargers' Top 10 Players for 2009 Success
With training camp only two months away and a roster that's mostly complete, I think it's time to rank the players that will mean the most to the success of the Chargers in the upcoming season. These are players that I believe can, and will, step up their game in 2009 to help the Chargers get to where they want to be:
10. Clinton Hart, SS
We've talked about it over and over and over and over again. Was Clinton's down year in 2008 because of the lack of a pass rush? His age? A gaping hole in his game that was finally found after a stellar 2007 season? Speculation gets us nowhere. What we do know is that Hart seems to be the front-runner for the starting Strong Safety job in 2009 and a return to his 2007 form would go a long way towards re-solidifying the defense.
9. Mike Scifres, P
For as much as the offense seemed to sputter in the first half of every game last season, Scifres wound up punting only 51 times over the course of the season. That is way down from his previous low (69 times in '04 and '06) and nearly half the amount of punts kicked in 2007 (81). Looking at it in terms of offense, those numbers don't make sense. But the increase in punts was caused by our defense, which led the league in takeaways in 2007 and had a lot of stops as well, creating more offensive opportunities. If the offense and defense play the way they're supposed to, a lot of big plays are going to be determined by the right leg of Mike Scifres.
8. Gartrell Johnson, RB
Now that's what I'm talking about! Impact rookies! Look, I don't mean to be rude, but if you think that Gartrell isn't going to be seeing a lot of time on the field this season you're nuts. The Chargers management always realized that it would probably benefit LT to have a power back to handle the short-yardage situations and put-the-game-away situations. The problem was that the coaches loved the idea of LT getting the ball in his hands. Not only was he a lock to get that one or two yards, there was a chance he was going to break a big run! This coaching style drove away Jesse Chatman (4.3 Yds/Car in 2004) and Michael Turner (6.3 Yds/Car in 2006). The compliments just didn't get the ball in their hands enough. Finally, when management said "to hell with it, LT or bust!", we got bust. LT wound up playing injured all year and being completely ineffective or absent during the playoffs. We had no way to get the short-yardage by way of the run. The offensive line turned into a decent pass-blocking line instead of a bull-rushing one. Gartrell is here to change that. I'm looking for 120-150 carries from him, a Yds/Car average over 4, a more balanced offense and 3 healthy HBs going into the playoffs.
via www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com
7. Jeromey Clary, RT
Another player/position that's been talked to death. After reading this article, I know why the team loves Clary. Is he the second-coming of Ogden, Pace or even Marcus McNeil? No. Clary has the size and the skills, but it's his motor and his work ethic that's going to keep him progressing into a better right tackle year in and year out. It's important in 2009 that the Chargers find a little more balance on their line and Clary is a big part of that. How he progresses this season could be the difference between him leaving town or being the Chargers' right tackle for the next 10 years. A.J. Smith sure seems to love the kid, and that's a man who has a history of finding great offensive linemen.
via www.ksl.com
6. Eric Weddle, FS
Are you ready for it? Can you feel it coming? Weddle's break-out season is only a couple months away. Since doing the X's and O's analysis of Weddle, I have gone back and watched more of the guy. And I noticed one of those traits that the Chargers management loves about him. One of those reasons that was given as to why we traded so much to ensure that we got him. Eric Weddle just gets it. The opposition finds a hole in his game and exploits it, then that hole disappears. Instead of working at getting better at what he's already good at (tackling, blitzing, underneath coverage), he works hard to remove his weaknesses (jump balls, biting on play-action, teeth-rattling hits) and becomes a more complete player because of it. The Eric Weddle I saw towards the end of the season was almost a different player completely than the one who was beaten at the end of the Carolina game. With intelligence, hard work and a great pair of hands I think the Chargers have found themselves a gem of a safety. In 2009 I am expecting him to not only become one of the defensive leaders (we have a lot), but one of the biggest defensive weapons we have.
5. Louis Vasquez, RG
I know, I know. Two impact rookies. I'll admit, though, that I'm not sold on Kynan Forney. Even as a project, if there wasn't something potentially wrong with his health long-term I feel that he would've gotten a better offer than what the Chargers signed him for. I also think that if management trusted him to return to form, Vasquez would not have been drafted. Now, onto Vasquez. That is a big, strong boy. Not Two-Ton Fonoti big either. Louis Vasquez is a brick wall, which is exactly what you want out of your right guard. He doesn't necessary need to have the best footwork, he just needs to be able to steamroll a defensive tackle when a running play is coming his way. I love his potential and think he's starting in week 1. Young offensive linemen can really help invigorate the group and provide offensive options that weren't there before. The Chargers went from 9 wins to 14 wins in one season with the only changes being McNeil, McCree and Rivers. I think we could see a similar situation in 2009.
via i.a.cnn.net
4. Philip Rivers, QB
After three years as the starting quarterback for the Chargers, here are Rivers' QB ratings: 92.0, 82.4, 105.5. I love that 105.5. However, Chargers fan have noticed something about Rivers in these past few years: Rivers typically plays much better in the second half, especially if the team is losing. That's something that needs to change. What I'm looking for out of Philip in 2009 and beyond is consistency. Sure, I love knowing that if we're down in the 4th quarter he has another gear. It's Favre-like. However, I'd prefer it more if Rivers could consistently get the Chargers the lead going into the half and rely on the running game/defense to close things out than playing catch-up. For the sake of the health for myself and Chargers fans anyways. After watching this team for the past few years, with Rivers as the QB, I recognized a trend. I have no stats to back this up, but if the Chargers were tied or leading at halftime it seemed like a sure victory. Even going into the locker room down by 3 typically resulted in a win, but it happened so infrequently. I don't know if it's Norv's playcalling or Rivers lack of focus, but something needs to change so we can go from a team that wins by the skin of our teeth to one that wins dominantly.
via helenecornell.files.wordpress.com
3. Luis Castillo, LDE
There's a reason I chose the above picture for Luis and football-related pictures for everyone else. I don't think Luis is focused on football. In my opinion, I think Luis needs to get hungry. He came out of college and there were plenty of doubters. After failing a steroids test as the combine, he had to prove that he could still produce the way he did in college. In 2006 he had a fine year: effectively rushing the passer (3.5 sacks), dropping into coverage (3 passes defensed) and making plays (49 tackles, 1 force fumble). Then in 2007 he unleashed himself: collecting 7 sacks, 1 interception, 1 defensed pass, 1 fumble recovery and 38 tackles. After that season Castillo was locked up with a long-term, incentive-laden deal. There's three theories I can have about why he's dropped off since.
Theory 1: Luis Castillo was taking steroids, even in the NFL. After his 2007 season the testing became harder to get by and he stopped taking them.
Theory 2: Luis Castillo simply cannot play well unless he is 100% heathy, and nobody in the NFL is 100% healthy.
Theory 3: Luis Castillo has been unmotivated since proving his doubters wrong and getting his big contract. He is driven more by personal accomplishments than team accomplishments and we can expect his next big season during his next contract year.
I'm a believer in theory 3. It's the easiest one for me to swallow. It's also the easiest one to solve. Send coaches and players at him. Merriman will yell at Castillo all day until he realizes that Shawne will slit his throat if Castillo doesn't give 150% effort. Have A.J. Smith text Luis with reminders of big bonuses in his contract for being Super Bowl MVP. Kidnap his family (Ed's note: don't kidnap Luis' family) and make him angry. Light the fire that turns Castillo into one of the best 3-4 DEs in the game and it'll make the difference of 2-3 wins.
2. Nate Kaeding, K
This is a big, big year for the player my wife likes to call "Baby Kaeding". Check out this chart:
| 40-49 FGA | 40-49 FGM | 50+ FGA | 50+ FGM | |
| 2004 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 3 |
| 2005 | 11 | 8 | 0 | 0 |
| 2006 | 9 | 7 | 1 | 1 |
| 2007 | 8 | 7 | 2 | 1 |
| 2008 | 8 | 3 | 1 | 1 |
So part of Kaeding posting his lowest FG% since his rookie year was the fact that he seems to be losing leg power, which he didn't have a ton of to begin with. Before 2008 he was never worse than 72.7% on field goals longer than 40 yards. In 2008 he made 40+yd field goals at a 44.4% rate. Not only that, he has never shown above-average power on kickoffs. He's probably below-average actually. So essentially the Chargers have themselves a younger Morten Andersen. One more season like 2008 and A.J. Smith will go looking for new kickers in the draft. One reason for optimism is at the Twitter for the National Kicking Combine Series, who posted this:
Worked with Chargers' kicker Nate Kaeding. Changed his kickoff steps. He is already seeing improvement. Keeping energy through to the ball.
via broncotalk.net
1. Shawne Merriman, ROLB
This one was probably obvious. The biggest area for improvement this offseason is the passrush. The best thing we could do to improve our pass rush is bring in the best 3-4 OLB in the NFL today. My predictions for Merriman's 2009 season: lots of offensive linemen will go after his knee and it will result in a handful of easy sacks, he will get better as the season goes on, he'll take off the week 17 game against the Redskins to rest his knee and he'll finish the season among the top 10 in sacks.
This season is big for Merriman on so many levels. He has to prove he can come back from a huge injury. He has to prove that he's 100% healthy with no long-term affects. He has to prove he can stay focused on the game and practice with all of the other interests he's developed during his time off (like the energy drink). He has to prove that he is still the best pass-rushing OLB in the game and that his absence was the main reason for the defense's struggles in 2008. If he can do all that, I have no doubt that the Chargers will sign him to a long-term contract next offseason, CBA or not.
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Comments
Chargers top 10
Just a couple of notes, I like the list…Everyone looks at Clary on the line, but really Goff has been sketchy for awhile, you have the grade the tandem not individual on the lines. Forney is far more ready than Vasquez atm. Hart, Cromartie played through injuries when they could have just whined and sat down, their practice reps and film should tell if they making good decisions or not. I don’t see their secondary as the problem. Their biggest challenge is reinvigorating the pass rush since that is what their defense concept is based around; secondaries look good on 3 second plays and bad on 5 second ones.
I like Cottrel personally , but I think the biggest change will Rivera whose defense style I like better. 3-4 defenses have to use a variety of blitz to make up for missing lineman….Cottrel just dropped into zone way too much,,Castillo job isn’t to get sacks, his job is to seal off his end and keep backfield straight behind center so blitzer has ideal line to QB or RB if I was to judge Castillo, you break down film looking at how many times he failed to do his job which in this type of defense isn’t a Julius Peppers or Jared Allen…
in a 4-3 ends get most of sacks but are scorched by dumpoff passes to backs and short dunk passes to TE’s (ala West Coast style), in 3-4 you want your lineman to box an area of containment and let your free player/blitzer get the glory, in the mixing of packages you can limit the dump and dunk plays…the mixing is where Cottrel failed he began to over think his injuries to Merriman and others, dropping into zones way too often
So in the end I liked your numbers, but I think Rivera wins the top 10 even he is not a player I think the change to him will impact those players in the top 10 along with good health
by bo_shilo on May 23, 2009 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I considered this
but then I considered making Norv number 2. I have seen him progress as a coach and think he’s ready to have a 13-14 win season that’s strong all the way through.
Great comment (Rec’d) and welcome to Bolts From The Blue!
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on May 23, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not always...
That’s a common misconception about the 3-4 D. In some 3-4 Ds, yep ,the DL just contain/take up blockers, but in others, they’re expected to rush the passer. One of the Bronco fans at sbnation provided an excellent synopsis of 3 different types of 3-4 defenses
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/7/481970/mhr-university-modern-3-4
Speaking of nice writeups—the above was a great read obviousman. Thanks!
by FCBolt82 on May 24, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
That picture of Clary with Tiny Darren made my day.
Hart did play with the busted mitt and then the bad neck late in the season. Playing with those neck braces looks hard. It will be interesting to see if he gets challenged for the starting spot.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on May 23, 2009 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Story Obviousman!!, Kudos well researched
Lets go one by one, first off:
10) Clinton Hart: Of the key 10 he’s probably the one I least believe is going to come through, I think Kevin Ellison and Paul Oliver are going to take his position. His inconsistent hands, below average coverage skills and sub 60 tackle production is just not nfl level. They say he’s a super guy so it isn’t personal, but an upgrade is needed and Ellison-Oliver are worth the gamble.
9) Mike Scifres: Dude is just awesome, he’s one the 5 best punters ever. He’s a big reason the chargers were second in scoring while being eleventh in yards. And he’s probably getting better.
8) Gartrell Johnson: I like the guy and his skill set is very similar to Marion Barber, and his role could be similar to Barber early in his career. The chargers need a late game closer and short yardage back. The Chargers have to study history, and Fred Taylor found a second wind with the arrival a Maurice Jones-Drew. So there are parallels lets drop LT’s carries to 16-18 carries per game, and lets get 10-14 carries Sproles/Johnson.
7) Jeromey Clary: This offense was still second in the league scoring with him, add an upgrade next him at RG and he should be fine. I am concerned when he faces premier pass rushers (Woodley and Mathis ate him for lunch in the playoffs). He’s improving and worth the gamble that he will get better.
6) Eric Weddle: I don’t why this guy get some much criticism, he’s around the ball; he led the team in tackles. He’s not a finished product, and he really got better as the season progressed and he will continue to get better. He doesn’t get flashy bone jarring hits, but he should good for 85-100 tackles and 3-5 Int’s.
5) Louis Vasquez: I love his long term potential, good pass blocking guards at 6’5 330 lbs, that are really strong don’t grow on trees and his skill set is perfect scheme fit for the chargers offense. But he has to learn how to drive and combo block, and I doubt the chargers will start him. And considering the unwillingness to bench Goff last year, I doubt Vasquez gets to start until ’10.
4) Philip Rivers: Like most QB’s he tends to play better the more he throws and he can get into a rhythm. The chargers sure seem to be a team that follows the axiom “You need to run to establish the pass”. I have always hated that view, Norv try a new one: “You pass to score and run to win the game”. If the chargers come out throwing it should result in better early results and you still should get your carries in the second half.
3) Luis Castillo: All 3 theories may have some merit, I’ll be less cynical and say his production was affected with lack of Merriman he tended to get 3-5 garbage sacks a year. But the QB’s weren’t stepping up in the pocket. If he can get playing time on the nickel Merriman/English/Phillips grouping his production I think will go up. But I’m still concerned about this guy’s ability to stay healthy.
2) Nate Kaeding: He should be solid, he still kicked that 54 yarder against Tampa, he didn’t have his best season. But I still think there is no need or movement in the chargers brass for a change.
1) Shawne Merriman: I know the chargers are annoyed by the visits to Europe and the show for Fox. But if he still is a 14-20 sack guy, AJ Smith will make a serious offer to keep him. Come on we should know AJ Smith he doesn’t offer long term deals to guys with medical concerns until they prove they can produce after surgery. John Riggins was weird the redskins, when you’re productive you are not a headache you’re eccentric.
If Shawne is back to his level I fully expect the chargers to improve their pass defense from 25th to around 8-12 level, and they should be able to drop the points per game to around 16-18 points per game.
by TJBOLT on May 23, 2009 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd, but...
Luis Castillo: All 3 theories may have some merit, I’ll be less cynical and say his production was affected with lack of Merriman he tended to get 3-5 garbage sacks a year.
2005 – 3.5 sacks
2006 – 7 sacks
2007 – 2.5 sacks
2008 – 1.5 sacks
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on May 23, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darren Sproles
To me seems like a huge threat hopefully he is accounted for in MNF. and BTW how did you get my E-Mail Address Obviousman Looks like I have to make a whole post on Him now thanks.
Amazing, Jamarcus Russell hands off to McFadden who pitches it back to Russell who finds Darrius Heyward Bey in the Middle of the Field wide open 30, 20,10,5 Touchdown Raiders! Amazing. This telecast is Brought to you by Cable.
by nishal26 on May 23, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love me some Bolts
Kaeding’s FG against TB was a 57 yard field goal at the end of the first half. As far as the blog…. Really surprised to not see LT on the list. I believe that him being healthy, in addition to Merriman being healthy( your # 1), are the two key players/factors to this " being our year." I love talking Bolts and I do not mean to be critical. Also, love our draft but i don’t expect Vasquez to unseat “now favorite” Forney for the starting position. No mention of Bingham/Cesaire/Martin as a key to our success is troubling. i do not mean as three different positions on your top ten but as one spot collectively. Both Shawne and Shaun need our space eating 3-4 DEs to occupy as many linemen as possible to free up lanes to rush the QB and reel in RBs. I do believe that the playcalling of Norv Turner is very crucial to our success, but, you did say " players." Kaeding is fine and only makes me nervous in the playoffs. Rivers continues to mature and improve with each and every season. Every QB is crucial to their respective teams success but we have a gem in Rivers. Do i cringe occasionally at some of his decisions? Absolutely. But i have this argument about Rivers with my dad and will not take it out on you any further. Scifres?? Best punter in the league by far. For example: See Colts playoff game. Questioning that is a jinx in my mind. Gartrell will definitely see SOME carries but will not be that much of a factor in a VERY talented backfield. 2010 is another story. With all due respect, I would like to post my top ten and challenge you to debate it. It will contain some of the same players but not in the same order. Have never posted on here before but heard about it from Boltgirl on the Union Tribune site and she wasn’t lying about this site being good.
10) Antonio Cromartie: Super athlete and sooo fast. Was he really injured to a degree that made it impossible to make simple reads and get burned a countless number of times Granted, my sophomore year, I had my hip fractured in a game, and i was on crutches for 8 weeks. Which would lead me to believe that his hip was probably not fractured, but hurt regardless. Great athletes make great plays as long as they are disciplined, healthy, and/or get lucky. I feel in my heart of hearts that he did not get lucky in ‘07. We obviously need some pass rush to help him, but come on, Brandon Marshall ate him alive as well as every other receiver did. Whew.. my bad.
9) Dobbins/Burnett: The starter here has a lot of pressure to perform well. Dobbins to solidify his spot last year. Burnett to confirm that this is why I was the only free agent to be signed.
8) Eric Weddle: Yes , i know that he was out of position often, but i believe that he is an up and coming star in this league. Very smart and IS learning from his mistakes.
7) Bingham/Cesaire/Martin: Was not a big Olshansky fan but did love his strength. Being in a 3-4 accentuates the importance of our DEs. Can’t wait to see Martin in the years to come but he has a lot of learning to do. The battle is between Bingham and Cesaire to prove that they are starting material and not just rotational DEs/NTs.
6) Clary: The only reason I don’t have him rated closer to the top is that he seems to be in good graces with the decision makers and i am doing my best to try to stand behind their decisions. Really hope that he is more physical and think that he will improve from last year.
5) LT: To literally take the nickname of a hall of fame LB says enough. To have the Chargers use their heads and restructure his contract (although i would have left him alone and not forced his hand) is the best news of the offseason. To have him healthy is PRICELESS. My favorite player of all-time and the best Charger to ever step foot on the field. WE need LT. Period. End.
4) Castillo: A wise Charger fan, Boltgirl4ever, once cast him as “Ca-steal-dough.” Hilarious, I know. But, unfortunately, true. Really hope that he isn’t " that guy" and isn’t going to quit after receiving a big contract. Luis, EARN IT!!!
3) Forney/Vasquez: I would love to se a mauler like Vasquez in the starting line-up but do not forsee it happening unless there is a complete meltdown by Forney. A.J. would not have resigned him, after not playing a down last year, unless he thought that he replace Goff.
2) Clinton Hart: I really hope that his injuries were the reason that he was so terrible last season. He made that great play in overtime against the Chiefs but i would have knocked that down as well. He has never been known as a physical SS, but i would really like to see him hit somebody. Or cover somebody for that matter. I know that he had a good 07 but i think that that was more a product of the pass rush and " who else am i going to attack on this Charger defense." Off the top of my head I am not able to name one great Charger Safety ever minus Rodney Harrison and initially I found him to be a cheap shot artist. Initially being the operative word. I am only 30 yrs. old but please correct me.
1) Shawne “Lights Out” Merriman" : THE best defensive player in the league when healthy. I, along with many others, obviously took him for granted. A.J., it’s okay, a lot of us did. I loved Shawne pre-injury and loved him even more post-injury. He is able to help this team get to the Superbowl and I pray ( honestly I PRAY) that A.J. will allow him to do so. If A.J. doesn’t then it is time, again, for Dean to step in and take control to remind him of how important marquee players are to this franchise. I am sooo sick of seeing us settle for compensatory picks as compensation for NFL superstars. Prior to compensatory picks the Chargers have always been notorious for letting great players go in their prime. Wow… Just re-read this whole rant and would like to apologize. It is the offseason and I have a lot to say. Love the site. Keep up the good work. For those who would like to respond my email address is boogapeters@yahoo.com. Peace and love to you and all your friends and families.
by MekyahsDaddy on May 25, 2009 5:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
REALLY good comments (Rec'd)
Let me start off with this:
These are players that I believe can, and will, step up their game in 2009 to help the Chargers get to where they want to be
That’s why LT was not included. I don’t think LT will step up his game in 2009. I wish I could, but last year he was a shell of himself. His biggest weapons, his cuts, weren’t there. His speed, which was never great, is gone. His strength, which has gone down quickly after taking a beating all these years, seems gone. I think LT will bring something to the table this year, but I think the key to a strong running game is a focus towards Gartrell Johnson.
I disagree about Forney being a lock for the starting RG spot. AJ Smith loves “backup plans”. So he signs Forney to be the starter, but when Vazquez falls to him he jumps on it. Now he lets them compete with the loser being a backup that could start if an injury occurs. I also worry about Forney’s age (31) and history with injuries. Even if he has the inside-track in training camp, he may not be able to stay healthy very long.
You’re absolutely right about Cromartie. I don’t know how I left him off. If I’m re-doing the list I’m putting him 5th, moving everyone down (except Hart) and taking Scifres off.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on May 26, 2009 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Forgot One
Probably in the 4-6 range I would take Larry English. Why? Our single greatest need this offseason was to put pressure on the QB, something that we failed to do unless playing the raiders. We did not take him at 16 to let him grow. I dare say he will have a larger impact than the other two rookies you chose. He wil come in on passing downs and he will be turned loose. Look for somwhere between 8-10 sacks and two of those being gamechangers. I wholeheartedlly agree with SM at #1. Great post obviousman.
by GABOLT on May 25, 2009 9:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I still can't figure it out
How will we put 3 pass rushing LBs on the field at the same time without creating big holes in pass coverage? Also, if English is on the field with Merriman and Phillips….where’s Burnett? He was brought in specifically for passing downs. I’m just confused as to where English fits into this roster as anything more than a backup for Merriman and Phillips (with him rotating in to keep all of them fresh), so I don’t know what his impact will be yet. I agree that we’ll probably see a couple of game-changing sacks from English though. I love that kid’s fire.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on May 26, 2009 6:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll admit to overrating Castillo's production
Even then Castillo seemed to get most of his big plays when QB’s had to step up in the pocket, as of right know he definitely seems like a bad investment.
I’m not married to the idea of Forney as a starter but the chargers are not known for throwing rookies into the fire. Clearly Stephen Cooper was a superior player to Randall Godfrey and it took the end of Godfrey contract for Cooper to take that spot, Malcolm Floyd outplayed Chambers last year, I’m pretty sure Chambers keeps his job. Don’t agree with it just come to expect it.
In terms of English don’t be shocked if he takes over the Justin Tuck position as a Defensive Tackle on passing downs, I know the chargers are a 3-4 team, but I’m sure Rivera wants to throw some of the 4-3 stuff he learned under Jim Johnson.
by TJBOLT on May 26, 2009 7:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
YEAH...
I agree about getting English snaps, but if Phillips has a subpar performance like last year he will start to see his snaps diminish and English will get more pt. Anyhow fun to speculate during this time of year.
by GABOLT on May 26, 2009 11:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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