Offensive Lineman Pass Protection Rankings
There is really no objective way to rate an offensive lineman's skills. You could base their run blocking ability based on how their running back does, you can rate their pass blocking ability based on how many times their QB is sacked. But any statistical measure of an offensive lineman is going to be skewed due to factors like how talented their running back is, how mobile their QB is, how well the guy right next to them is, and other factors. So take this ranking with a healthy grain of salt.
I found some stats floating around the internets that assigned sacks to offensive lineman. I couldn't find it's source,It was originally sourced from Stats, Inc, although I don't know how a player gets assigned fractional sacks (especially quarter sacks), but the numbers seemed reasonable enough overall. Now, the number of sacks a lineman gives up is a good overall number, but doesn't tell the whole story. Obviously guys who play on passing teams are going to give up more sacks that guys who don't. If your QB throws twice as much as another QB, your offensive lineman might have given up twice as many sacks and still be just as good. So I thought I would try and normalize it by number of pass plays a player is involved in.
So I found the total "Pass Plays" run by every team. This is the number of pass attempts, plus the number of total sacks for the team for the whole year. It doesn't account for pass plays that ended up in a QB scramble for positive yards. I couldn't figure out how to count those or even whether it was a positive or negative thing (since it is basically a sack, without the actual sack, if that makes sense)
I knew how many games each guy started, so I could figure out roughly how many pass plays a guy was involved in by taking games started and multiplying it by pass plays per game for the team. If you take the number of sacks given up and divide by number of pass plays a player is involved in, you get sacks per pass play for a given player.
That number is a little more accurate as a ranking of a player's pass protection ability. So I took those numbers, threw them in a spreadsheet, sorted them and voila... ranking!
There's a bunch of 'em so you have to click through.
| Position | Name | Team | Sacks | Games Started | Team Passing Plays | Passing plays per game | Sacks per Pass Play |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| LT | Ryan Clady | Broncos | 0.5 | 16 | 632 | 39.5 | 0.0008 |
| LT | Michael Roos | Titans | 1 | 16 | 465 | 29.1 | 0.0022 |
| LT | Tra Thomas | Eagles | 2 | 16 | 629 | 39.3 | 0.0032 |
| LT | Orlando Pace | Rams | 2 | 14 | 565 | 35.3 | 0.0040 |
| LT | Jake Long | Dolphins | 2.5 | 16 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0048 |
| LT | Jammal Brown | Saints | 3 | 15 | 649 | 40.6 | 0.0049 |
| LT | Tony Ugoh | Colts | 3 | 12 | 599 | 37.4 | 0.0067 |
| LT | Marcus McNeill | Chargers | 3 | 14 | 503 | 31.4 | 0.0068 |
| LT | Jared Gaither | Ravens | 3 | 15 | 466 | 29.1 | 0.0069 |
| LT | DBrickashaw Ferguson | Jets | 4 | 16 | 559 | 34.9 | 0.0072 |
| LT | Chris Samuels | Redskins | 3 | 12 | 548 | 34.3 | 0.0073 |
| LT | Jordan Gross | Panthers | 3 | 15 | 434 | 27.1 | 0.0074 |
| LT | Branden Albert | Chiefs | 4.5 | 15 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0083 |
| LT | Joe Thomas | Browns | 4.5 | 16 | 512 | 32.0 | 0.0088 |
| LT | Walter Jones | Seahawks | 3.5 | 12 | 510 | 31.9 | 0.0092 |
| LT | Mike Gandy | Cardinals | 6.25 | 16 | 658 | 41.1 | 0.0095 |
| LT | Todd Weiner | Falcons | 3 | 11 | 451 | 28.2 | 0.0097 |
| LT | Max Starks | Steelers | 4 | 11 | 555 | 34.7 | 0.0105 |
| LT | Bryant McKinnie | Vikings | 4 | 12 | 495 | 30.9 | 0.0108 |
| LT | David Diehl | Giants | 6.5 | 16 | 519 | 32.4 | 0.0125 |
| LT | Flozell Adams | Cowboys | 7.25 | 16 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0125 |
| LT | Matt Light | Patriots | 7.5 | 16 | 582 | 36.4 | 0.0129 |
| LT | Khalif Barnes | Jaguars | 7.5 | 16 | 579 | 36.2 | 0.0130 |
| LT | Chad Clifton | Packers | 7.5 | 15 | 575 | 35.9 | 0.0139 |
| LT | Levi Brown | Bengals | 5.5 | 11 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0142 |
| LT | Donald Penn | Buccaneers | 8.5 | 16 | 594 | 37.1 | 0.0143 |
| LT | Joe Staley | 49ers | 8.5 | 16 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0151 |
| LT | Jeff Backus | Lions | 9.25 | 16 | 561 | 35.1 | 0.0165 |
| LT | John St. Clair | Bears | 9.75 | 16 | 557 | 34.8 | 0.0175 |
| LT | Duane Brown | Texans | 11.5 | 16 | 587 | 36.7 | 0.0196 |
| LT | Kwame Harris | Raiders | 7.5 | 11 | 460 | 28.8 | 0.0237 |
| LT | Jason Peters | Bills | 11.5 | 13 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0274 |
| Position | Name | Team | Sacks | Games Started | Team Passing Plays | Passing plays per game | Sacks per Pass Play |
| LG | David Baas | 49ers | 0 | 9 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0000 |
| LG | Kris Dielman | Chargers | 0 | 16 | 503 | 31.4 | 0.0000 |
| LG | Charlie Johnson | Colts | 0 | 16 | 599 | 37.4 | 0.0000 |
| LG | Carl Nicks | Saints | 0.5 | 13 | 649 | 40.6 | 0.0009 |
| LG | Todd Herremans | Eagles | 0.75 | 15 | 629 | 39.3 | 0.0013 |
| LG | Brian Waters | Chiefs | 1 | 16 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0017 |
| LG | Josh Beekman | Bears | 1.25 | 16 | 557 | 34.8 | 0.0022 |
| LG | Reggie Wells | Cardinals | 1.75 | 16 | 658 | 41.1 | 0.0027 |
| LG | Robert Gallery | Raiders | 1.75 | 16 | 460 | 28.8 | 0.0038 |
| LG | Ben Hamilton | Broncos | 2.5 | 16 | 632 | 39.5 | 0.0040 |
| LG | Chester Pitts | Texans | 2.5 | 16 | 587 | 36.7 | 0.0043 |
| LG | Eugene Amano | Titans | 2 | 16 | 465 | 29.1 | 0.0043 |
| LG | Jacob Bell | Rams | 2.5 | 13 | 565 | 35.3 | 0.0054 |
| LG | Pete Kendall | Redskins | 3 | 16 | 548 | 34.3 | 0.0055 |
| LG | Rich Seubert | Giants | 3 | 16 | 519 | 32.4 | 0.0058 |
| LG | Chris Chester | Ravens | 2 | 11 | 466 | 29.1 | 0.0062 |
| LG | Jeff Smiley | Dolphins | 2.5 | 12 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0064 |
| LG | Travelle Wharton | Panthers | 2.5 | 14 | 434 | 27.1 | 0.0066 |
| LG | Justin Blalock | Falcons | 3 | 16 | 451 | 28.2 | 0.0067 |
| LG | Eric Steinbach | Browns | 3 | 14 | 512 | 32.0 | 0.0067 |
| LG | Floyd Womack | Seahawks | 3.5 | 14 | 510 | 31.9 | 0.0078 |
| LG | Arron Sears | Buccaneers | 4.5 | 15 | 594 | 37.1 | 0.0081 |
| LG | Uche Nwaneri | Jaguars | 4.5 | 15 | 579 | 36.2 | 0.0083 |
| LG | Logan Mankins | Patriots | 5 | 16 | 582 | 36.4 | 0.0086 |
| LG | Daryn Colledge | Packers | 6 | 16 | 575 | 35.9 | 0.0104 |
| LG | Edwin Mulitalo | Lions | 4.25 | 11 | 561 | 35.1 | 0.0110 |
| LG | Cory Procter | Cowboys | 4.5 | 11 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0113 |
| LG | Alan Faneca | Jets | 7 | 16 | 559 | 34.9 | 0.0125 |
| LG | Chris Kemoeatu | Steelers | 7.5 | 16 | 555 | 34.7 | 0.0135 |
| LG | Steve Hutchinson | Vikings | 7 | 16 | 495 | 30.9 | 0.0141 |
| LG | Andrew Whitworth | Bengals | 5 | 10 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0142 |
| LG | Derrick Dockery | Bills | 8.25 | 16 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0160 |
| Position | Name | Team | Sacks | Games Started | Team Passing Plays | Passing plays per game | Sacks per Pass Play |
| C | Olin Kreutz | Bears | 0 | 16 | 557 | 34.8 | 0.0000 |
| C | Todd McClure | Falcons | 0 | 16 | 451 | 28.2 | 0.0000 |
| C | Ryan Kalil | Panthers | 0 | 12 | 434 | 27.1 | 0.0000 |
| C | Chris Myers | Texans | 0 | 16 | 587 | 36.7 | 0.0000 |
| C | Kevin Mawae | Titans | 0 | 15 | 465 | 29.1 | 0.0000 |
| C | Brad Meester | Jaguars | 0.25 | 10 | 579 | 36.2 | 0.0007 |
| C | Lyle Sendlein | Cardinals | 0.5 | 16 | 658 | 41.1 | 0.0008 |
| C | Casey Wiegmann | Broncos | 1 | 16 | 632 | 39.5 | 0.0016 |
| C | Jeff Faine | Buccaneers | 1 | 16 | 594 | 37.1 | 0.0017 |
| C | Jonathan Goodwin | Saints | 1 | 13 | 649 | 40.6 | 0.0019 |
| C | Duke Preston | Bills | 0.75 | 11 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0021 |
| C | Andre Gurode | Cowboys | 2 | 16 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0035 |
| C | Jamaal Jackson | Eagles | 2.25 | 16 | 629 | 39.3 | 0.0036 |
| C | Nick Mangold | Jets | 2 | 16 | 559 | 34.9 | 0.0036 |
| C | Shaun OHara | Giants | 2 | 16 | 519 | 32.4 | 0.0039 |
| C | Matt Birk | Vikings | 2 | 16 | 495 | 30.9 | 0.0040 |
| C | Jeff Saturday | Colts | 2 | 12 | 599 | 37.4 | 0.0045 |
| C | Dominic Raiola | Lions | 2 | 12 | 561 | 35.1 | 0.0048 |
| C | Jason Brown | Ravens | 2.25 | 16 | 466 | 29.1 | 0.0048 |
| C | Hank Fraley | Browns | 2.5 | 16 | 512 | 32.0 | 0.0049 |
| C | Nick Leckey | Rams | 2 | 10 | 565 | 35.3 | 0.0057 |
| C | Nick Hardwick | Chargers | 2.5 | 13 | 503 | 31.4 | 0.0061 |
| C | Rudy Niswanger | Chiefs | 3.5 | 15 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0065 |
| C | Eric Heitmann | 49ers | 4 | 16 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0071 |
| C | Eric Ghaiciuc | Bengals | 4 | 16 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0071 |
| C | Chris Spencer | Seahawks | 2.5 | 11 | 510 | 31.9 | 0.0071 |
| C | Jake Grove | Raiders | 2.5 | 12 | 460 | 28.8 | 0.0072 |
| C | Scott Wells | Packers | 3.5 | 13 | 575 | 35.9 | 0.0075 |
| C | Dan Koppen | Patriots | 4.5 | 16 | 582 | 36.4 | 0.0077 |
| C | Samson Satele | Dolphins | 4.5 | 16 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0087 |
| C | Casey Rabach | Redskins | 5.5 | 16 | 548 | 34.3 | 0.0100 |
| C | Justin Harwig | Steelers | 6.5 | 16 | 555 | 34.7 | 0.0117 |
| Position | Name | Team | Sacks | Games Started | Team Passing Plays | Passing plays per game | Sacks per Pass Play |
| RG | Chris Kuper | Broncos | 0 | 16 | 632 | 39.5 | 0.0000 |
| RG | Jake Scott | Titans | 0.5 | 16 | 465 | 29.1 | 0.0011 |
| RG | Max Jean-Gilles | Eagles | 0.5 | 10 | 629 | 39.3 | 0.0013 |
| RG | Jason Spitz | Packers | 1 | 16 | 575 | 35.9 | 0.0017 |
| RG | Chris Snee | Giants | 1 | 16 | 519 | 32.4 | 0.0019 |
| RG | Ikechuku Ndukwe | Dolphins | 1 | 15 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0021 |
| RG | Harvey Dahl | Falcons | 1 | 16 | 451 | 28.2 | 0.0022 |
| RG | Davin Joseph | Buccaneers | 1 | 12 | 594 | 37.1 | 0.0022 |
| RG | Brad Butler | Bills | 1 | 13 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0024 |
| RG | Adrian Jones | Chiefs | 1 | 10 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0028 |
| RG | Deuce Lutui | Cardinals | 2 | 16 | 658 | 41.1 | 0.0030 |
| RG | Jahri Evans | Saints | 2 | 16 | 649 | 40.6 | 0.0031 |
| RG | Rex Hadnot | Browns | 1.5 | 15 | 512 | 32.0 | 0.0031 |
| RG | Mike Brisiel | Texans | 2 | 16 | 587 | 36.7 | 0.0034 |
| RG | Brandon Moore | Jets | 2 | 16 | 559 | 34.9 | 0.0036 |
| RG | Mike Pollak | Colts | 2 | 13 | 599 | 37.4 | 0.0041 |
| RG | Roberto Garza | Bears | 2.5 | 16 | 557 | 34.8 | 0.0045 |
| RG | Stephen Neal | Patriots | 2 | 9 | 582 | 36.4 | 0.0061 |
| RG | Robbie Williams | Bengals | 4 | 16 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0071 |
| RG | Randy Thomas | Redskins | 4 | 16 | 548 | 34.3 | 0.0073 |
| RG | Leonard Davis | Cowboys | 4.5 | 16 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0078 |
| RG | Stephen Peterman | Lions | 4 | 14 | 561 | 35.1 | 0.0081 |
| RG | Mike Goff | Chargers | 4.5 | 16 | 503 | 31.4 | 0.0089 |
| RG | Cooper Carlisle | Raiders | 4 | 15 | 460 | 28.8 | 0.0093 |
| RG | Tony Wragge | 49ers | 4 | 10 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0113 |
| RG | Darnell Stapleton | Steelers | 5 | 12 | 555 | 34.7 | 0.0120 |
| RG | Richie Incognito | Rams | 6.5 | 15 | 565 | 35.3 | 0.0123 |
| RG | Ben Grubbs | Ravens | 6.5 | 16 | 466 | 29.1 | 0.0139 |
| RG | Dennis Norman | Jaguars | 7.25 | 14 | 579 | 36.2 | 0.0143 |
| RG | Anthony Herrera | Vikings | 7.5 | 16 | 495 | 30.9 | 0.0152 |
| Position | Name | Team | Sacks | Games Started | Team Passing Plays | Passing plays per game | Sacks per Pass Play |
| RT | Jon Stinchcomb | Saints | 1.5 | 16 | 649 | 40.6 | 0.0023 |
| RT | Ryan Diem | Colts | 1.5 | 16 | 599 | 37.4 | 0.0025 |
| RT | Ryan Harris | Broncos | 2.5 | 16 | 632 | 39.5 | 0.0040 |
| RT | Mark Tauscher | Packers | 2 | 13 | 575 | 35.9 | 0.0043 |
| RT | David Stewart | Titans | 2 | 16 | 465 | 29.1 | 0.0043 |
| RT | Ray Willis | Seahawks | 1.5 | 10 | 510 | 31.9 | 0.0047 |
| RT | Tyson Clabo | Falcons | 2.5 | 16 | 451 | 28.2 | 0.0055 |
| RT | Langston Walker | Bills | 3 | 16 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0058 |
| RT | Nick Kaczur | Patriots | 3 | 14 | 582 | 36.4 | 0.0059 |
| RT | Kareem McKenzie | Giants | 4.5 | 16 | 519 | 32.4 | 0.0087 |
| RT | Vernon Carey | Dolphins | 4.5 | 16 | 517 | 32.3 | 0.0087 |
| RT | Kevin Shaffer | Browns | 4.5 | 15 | 512 | 32.0 | 0.0094 |
| RT | Tony Pashos | Jaguars | 5.5 | 16 | 579 | 36.2 | 0.0095 |
| RT | Marc Colombo | Cowboys | 5.5 | 16 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0095 |
| RT | Jeremy Trueblood | Buccaneers | 6 | 16 | 594 | 37.1 | 0.0101 |
| RT | Willie Colon | Steelers | 5.75 | 16 | 555 | 34.7 | 0.0104 |
| RT | John Tait | Bears | 6 | 16 | 557 | 34.8 | 0.0108 |
| RT | Willie Anderson | Ravens | 3.5 | 11 | 466 | 29.1 | 0.0109 |
| RT | Jon Runyan | Eagles | 7 | 16 | 629 | 39.3 | 0.0111 |
| RT | Damien Woody | Jets | 6.5 | 16 | 559 | 34.9 | 0.0116 |
| RT | Damion McIntosh | Chiefs | 7 | 16 | 578 | 36.1 | 0.0121 |
| RT | Jeromey Clary | Chargers | 6.5 | 16 | 503 | 31.4 | 0.0129 |
| RT | Gosder Cherilus | Lions | 6 | 13 | 561 | 35.1 | 0.0132 |
| RT | Eric Winston | Texans | 8 | 16 | 587 | 36.7 | 0.0136 |
| RT | Ryan Cook | Vikings | 6 | 14 | 495 | 30.9 | 0.0139 |
| RT | Alex Barron | Rams | 7.5 | 15 | 565 | 35.3 | 0.0142 |
| RT | Jeff Otah | Panthers | 5 | 12 | 434 | 27.1 | 0.0154 |
| RT | Cornell Green | Raiders | 7.5 | 16 | 460 | 28.8 | 0.0163 |
| RT | Levi Brown | Cardinals | 11 | 16 | 658 | 41.1 | 0.0167 |
| RT | Jon Jansen | Redskins | 6.5 | 11 | 548 | 34.3 | 0.0173 |
| RT | Stacy Andrews | Bengals | 9.5 | 15 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0180 |
| RT | Adam Snyder | 49ers | 9.5 | 13 | 564 | 35.3 | 0.0207 |
The proof of any ranking is how well it stands up to our perceptions. Whenever a ranking goes against our perceptions, it's a good time to figure out why. Was our perception wrong and the stats are revealing something we didn't know? Is our perception correct, and the stats don't truly measure what we want them to measure. Then again, a sack is a sack, so maybe we shouldn't over-analyze this.
There are definately some surprises in here. You will see some names in places that don't seem quite right (didn't the Eagles just let Tra Thomas go and trade for Jason Peters and give him a big old fat contract? They're gonna kick themselves when they see this chart.:-) ) One thing that really struck me is that the Super Bowl Champion Steelers don't have an offensive lineman in the top half of any of their position groups. It could be that Roethlisberger hangs on to the ball to long, or maybe they aren't that good at pass blocking.
As far as the Charger lineman go, I don't think anyone is surpised by how low Clary and Goff were and how high Dielman was. I'm a little surprised at how high McNeil ended up and real surprised at how low Hardwick was. Although that might lend additional support to the "Goff was dragging everyone around him down" theory.
4 recs |
23 comments
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Comments
biggest surprise
Steve Hutchinson LG gave up so many sacks. I thought he was considered the best Guard in the game. Maybe he’s the best run blocking guard? And I thought I’d heard D=Brick Ferg was not living up to the hype but he doesn’t look like a bust on this chart. Not probowl but not Robert Galley bad either.
also alot of Broncos high on this list
sbhchawk
by sbhchawk on May 15, 2009 8:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Hardwick is lower than I expected. Everyone else is about where I expected them. Good to see that McNeil was still a top 10 LT in a down year.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 15, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Outstanding post, o’man. Rec’d.
by Joel Thorman on May 15, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't Me
It was shaynes41, who pitches relief on Fridays and comes through every time.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 15, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Roethlisberger goes
He did get pounded in the sack category last year. So by focusing on sacks in the numerator I think it remains a good metric for the O-line
Roethlisberger just seems to thrive on contact. I think we have to credit his performance and durability to much of the Steelers success.
by Trendsearcher on May 15, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he did take a pounding
There were a few very impressive plays where he delivered the ball right as he was being clobbered. He went up a couple notches in my book last year. But I don’t think it bodes well for his long term health.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 15, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did anyone else look at these numbers and think that Shanahan probably shouldn’t have been fired? The man was a wizard with his offensive line and probably would’ve had a top 5 running game if all of his running backs didn’t get hurt. I think Darrent Williams’ death was a bigger reason for Denver not winning the division than people realize.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 15, 2009 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Broncos did keep their OL Coach, Rick Dennison.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 22, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, great write up, rec'd.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 22, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forney
I love the pic at the top, but Forney being there at the RG spot makes me think that I may have been wrong about it being Vasquez’s spot to lose. Either that or Vasquez wasn’t allowed to play without a signed contract.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 15, 2009 11:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From what I've read
Forney was running with the first team during mini camp. Understandable since Vasquez has no knowledge of the plays or terminology. Part of the goal of the mini camp is to put a scare into the rookies about how tough the NFL is mentally. The Chargers did this by having the offense run through practice like it was mid-season while the rookies heads spun when it was their turn. We can really only do that with vets. So I don’t think I would read too much into Forney being there during mini camp.
I think it is still to early to say it is Vasquez’s job to lose, but I think he’ll be given a fair shake at the job, and if he and Forney are neck and neck, I bet the Rookie gets the nod, especially with the Raiders in week 1.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 15, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kyle Orton loves this post
outstanding work and stat analysis, particularly the insight that Goff may have been affecting the stats of those around him.
rec’d
by CoastalBronco on May 15, 2009 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the bears faired OK as well
So Cutler should have plenty of time to survey the field before realizing none of his WRs can get off the line. Image going from Marshall and Royal to Hester and ???
props to OMan for the call on Goff in his Clary piece.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 15, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Goff could really hurt the Chiefs chances this season. I was one of his biggest supporters and thought that his signing was a BIG part of the Chargers going from a losing franchise to a winning one. He was an absolute rock at RG up until last year, and offensive linemen are known for going down very quickly.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on May 15, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forney will start, still very concerned with Clary
Sometimes loyalty gets in the way of things that need to be done, and clearly Goff was a liability for the chargers. I admit I haven’t seen much of Kynan Forney, but everything I read indicates he’s a solid player, really good run blocker; and in general should have played ahead of Goff.
As much as the chargers like the potential of Vasquez, and 6’5 330 lbs guards that are really strong and can really pass block don’t grow on trees. The guy has to learn how to drive block and combo block, and it’s totally unrealistic to expect him to start early in the season. I think Vasquez might challenge for RG in ’10, but not this year.
Clary if he’s not facing an elite pass rusher is more than okay, the problem is that last I checked he probably gave at least 3 sacks in the playoffs to Mathis and Woodley. And I fully expect to face the steelers and/or the colts again in the playoffs.
by TJBOLT on May 15, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What are the 3 kind of lies that we come up against in life?
Shaynes41, you did a lot of work putting this all together and you’re to be commended but I don’t think the numbers here actually enlighten us in any way.
The answer to the question i pose in the title to my comment can be found here: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/5/18/878896/stats-show-the-chiefs-are-about?login=1242719957#
by LennytheCool on May 19, 2009 1:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe the stats only included lineman who had started
more than 8 games. So in some positions you don’t even have every team represented, since a team may have had 3 RG who only played 5 or 6 games each. That also means you can’t add up the number on the chart for a team and have the entire team’s stats for the year.
For the Chargers, there are 9 sacks of Rivers that are unaccounted for. It is not unreasonable to assume these came from RBs and backup lineman. I know McNeil missed two games, Hardwick missed 3, Dielman missed a few (if you include the phantom punch game and the game he was sick for). So my thought was that the numbers looked good enough to do a rough “hand wave” analysis of.
Let’s not get too crazy with the lies accusation. No one is taking food off anyone’s table because of these numbers and they pass the “reasonable test” if you think them through. The problem with any charts, graphs, or any sort of statistical summary is that they make you think you know more than you actually do. The assumptions and methods were laid out in the description or could be inferred with a little thinking.
Plus, it’s just a count of sacks given up, which isn’t a complete measure of an offensive lineman. It really isn’t even a complete measure of an offensive lineman’s pass blocking ability. But it is a reasonable rough gauge and it uses a critical stat, so it is sufficient for a “hand wave” analysis.
I felt enlightened after putting the stats together, but I may have come from a dimmer place than you :-)
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 19, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the answer to the rhetorical (sort of) question is "Lies, damn lies and statistics"
I truly didn’t intend to suggest you were lying. As I suggest, jokingly in this title, statistics don’t always measure anything truthfully. I really have issues with the “found” statistics you use as your foundation for this.
For your team, 9 sacks are unaccounted for out of 25. 36% of the sacks being missing from the analysis is not something to sneeze at. For the Chiefs, its 20 out of 37. That’s more than half the sacks the team gave up not being attributed to anyone. How can those numbers be valid?
I think the magic stats you stumbled onto on the internets are bogus, And despite your best efforts to glean something valuable from them, if you start with garbage numbers, you’re only going to get other garbage numbers as a result.
by LennytheCool on May 19, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you might be right.
I still feel the stats for the chargers are reasonable. I assume their are some sacks that are entirely a RB’s or TE’s or HB’s fault. There are other sacks that cannot be assigned to an offensive player (CB blitz off an overloaded side where there is no blocker for the blitzer). And there are other sacks that are probably shared responsibility between an OL and a non-OL. To me, it feels like 9 sacks not attributed to the OL is reasonable.
Like you, I would like to see the source of this data, but it hasn’t been attributed anywhere it was posted. Seems like a lot of data to have faked, but I guess that is possible. I’m going to stick with the data as reasonable. I think the assigning of sacks to specific lineman is a little more subjective than a chart full of numbers makes it seem, but I think it is close enough to right to be interesting.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 19, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
found the source!
http://hosted.stats.com
There is no big chart, but you can look up each individual player if you want.
Still not sure exactly how they count them, but STATS, Inc. is a pretty reputable source. One of the leaders in providing in depth stats not covered by the typical sources.
that was a lot harder than it needed to be…
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 19, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Did you adjust the number of pass plays for games started? For example, since McNeill missed 2 games did you only calculate his sack percentage by dividing by all 503 of the Chargers’ pass plays or only 14/16 of them? It seems like that would make a big difference.
by Brendan Scolari on May 20, 2009 2:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yes i did
although I didn’t adjust for any injuries that may have resulted in only a 1/2 game played.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 20, 2009 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Thanks for the reply. This was a great article.
by Brendan Scolari on May 20, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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