Chargers Defensive Line Depth Chart and Position Battles
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 1, 2009 6:15 AM PDT
in Training Camp/Preseason
8 comments
Now that Free Agency has died down and the Draft is past, our training camp roster is starting to clear up a bit. The guys we have now are probably the guys we are going to start camp with. The biggies from free agency are done, trades don't really happen in the NFL, and our draft choices are known. There is an outside chance that some veteran who has a few years left in the tank will be cut by a team who drafted someone to replace him and we could get some additional players through that method, but I think we can assume that what we've got is what we will have.
The defensive line was an area that looked thin before the draft. With the departure of Igor and the aging of Jamal, I felt we had a depth problem. I was sure AJ and Co were going to address it in the draft. Sure enough, we picked Vaughn Martin in the 4th round. We also picked up Rashaad Jackson as an UDFA who may contribute (or may be cut, you never know with UDFAs).
The more I thought about the drafting of Martin, the more worried I got. Don't get me wrong, I think Martin has a lot of upside and I fully expect him to have a long a productive career as a Charger, it's the short term that worries me. Martin came from Canada and played Canadian rules against vastly inferior competition compared to normal D1 NCAA football. He is going to have an adjustment period. I don't know, but I would bet he won't see significant time on the field until the 5th game or so and won't be in the normal DL rotation until mid-season. I'm a little worried that we might have a depth problem until then. What happens if Jamal's knees act up? What happens if (when) Castillo goes down for a few games?
Let's take a quick look at the guys we have now who are in the mix for the NT and DE positions:
| Name | Position(s) | Years Experience | Max Games Started in a Season | Max Games Played in a Season | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NT | 11 | 15 | 16 | ||
| Luis Castillo | DE | 4 | 15 | 15 | |
| Ryon Bingham | DE, NT | 4 | 2 | 16 | Even though he didn't start, he got lots of playing time in the DL rotation |
| Jacques Cesaire | DE | 6 | 6 | 16 | Even though he didn't start, he got lots of playing time in the DL rotation |
| Ian Scott | DE, NT | 6 | 14 | 15 | Played in 4 games for the Chargers last year with no stats. Came over from the Panther in early 2008. |
| Keith Grennan | DE | 1 | 0 | 1 | Practice Squad for half of 2008, got some PT in the Indy regular season game |
| Vaughn Martin | DE, NT | R | -- | -- | 4th Round draft pick |
| Ogemdi Nwagbuo | NT | 1 | 0 | 0 | Practice Squad |
| Andre Coleman | DE | 1 | 0 | 0 | Practice Squad |
| Rashaad Jackson | DE | R (UDFA) | -- | -- | UDFA 2009 |
more after the jump
Position Battles
Nose Tackle - Jamal Williams
Left Defensive End - Luis Castillo
Right Defensive End - Here is where there will be a battle. Ryon Bingham and Jacques Cesaire will compete for the starting spot. Cesaire has typically been the first guy off the bench at this position, but Bingham was the primary backup for Jamal and also spent lots of time in the DE rotation. In addition, both got lots of time in the nickel and other specialty packages. I think we will be OK with either starting and I have no idea who will win this battle. I'm inclined to say Cesaire will start because he has played the most at that position and Bingham is a more versatile backup, since he can play NT if Jamal goes down. Whoever doesn't start will be the first off the bench for either DE position.
In the rotation - I think Vaughn Martin will be mixed in slowly. I wouldn't expect to see him a lot until mid-season and then I would expect him to be in the rotation, seeing 20-30% of the defensive snaps. Ian Scott will probably be the primary backup for Jamal. Plus, we have whoever loses in the Cesaire/Bingham competition.
On the edge of the rotation - Keith Grennan got some PT last year in a key game. He was also the first DL pulled off the practice squad when we needed some depth. That indicates to me that Grennan will be in the mix if any injuries occur. He may even get some time early in the season until Martin gets up to speed. Once Martin gets into the rotation I would think Grennan would be on the 53 man roster but inactive week to week, depending on injuries.
X-Factors / Camp Fodder - Ogemdi Nwagbuo, Andre Coleman, and Rashaad Jackson. Nwagbuo and Coleman were on the practice squad all year, its hard to say how much AJ likes them, but they haven't been cut. Jackson has some potential, but also didn't get drafted, so he is an unknown.
Depth Analysis
We have the right number of players for our defensive line positions. If Cesaire starts and Bingham is the first guy off the bench for any of the DL spots, then I feel pretty good with those 4. If Bingham starts and Cesaire is the first of the bench for the DE positions and Scott is Jamal's backup, then I am OK with that. On paper we're looking pretty good.
However, we typically run the DL in a rotation. Last season Cesaire and Bingham got a lot of PT even though they weren't starters. This was true even though Jamal had his healthiest season since the bronze age, Igor didn't miss any games, and Castillo started 15 games. Now that Igor is gone, we've got one less player in that mix. Who steps up? More to the point, who steps up weeks 1-8 (or so) until Martin gets his head around the NFL? Is it Ian Scott? He's got the experience, but he was discarded by two teams (Bears in 2007 and Panthers in 2008) and only was active for 4 games for us last year. Is it the young Grennan? I suspect AJ and Norv like him, but there are a lot of unknowns. And that just handles the starters and the rotation. What happens when Jamal's magic pixie dust runs out and his knees start acting like 33 year old nose tackle knees? Now we're counting on Scott and/or Grennan to contribute. What happens when Luis gets his inevitable injury and what happens if his is at the same time as Jamal's? Are we comfotable with Bingham/Scott/Cesaire with Grennan and Martin in the rotation? These are not improbable situations. Jamal is getting older and Castillo has missed 6 games in two of the last three seasons.
Last year, Igor made the numbers work out. As bad a year as he may have had, he could at least be counted on as a veteran body. This year, we are down one veteran and may have to rely on some unproven young guys. I suspect AJ and Norv will count on the young guys. The good thing about that is that there might be some hidden potential in those guys that a little PT might bring to the surface. The bad thing about that is that it is a huge unknown.
2 recs |
8 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
good post.
It makes you both hopeful and nervous thinking about what might happen
by Diesel85 on May 1, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great analysis
I think Bingham can contribute and we won’t skip a beat losing Igor. Having Coop start the season should help the run game also. Big year for Castillo; he’s gotta make some things happen for that contract. I agreee that Martin won’t be a real factor until hopefully mid-season.
by L Magico on May 1, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It must be getting closer football season
The Annual Castillo Big Year predictions are already in.
Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.
by Wonko on May 1, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It must be any given time of year
Wonkos condescending comments aren’t deciduous.
by soulSD on May 1, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was condescending?
I thought is was funny. I mean, seriously, doesn’t someone say every year that this will be Castillo’s breakout year? I’ve definitely heard it prior to the last 2 if not the last 3.
Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.
by Wonko on May 1, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The worry over Martin doesn't jive with me
Were we really going to find someone in the 4th round that was going to be more effective in the defensive rotation? If you discount Martin, them we are in the same situation at the DE position as we were before the draft and you weren’t this worried then. Even if we had drafted someone who played American football, they still wouldn’t have experience at the 3-4 DE since barely any college teams use it and I’d argue that they probably wouldn’t have his talent. The only player that probably could have played 3-4 DE from day 1 was Tyson Jackson and Tyson Jackson is not walking through this door.
Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.
by Wonko on May 1, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I was worried before the draft about depth in the DL
I think that was why a lot of us saw us drafting Jackson in round 1. He wound up going at 3, but there was still that need that was only going to get adressed via the draft. I think there was clearly a depth problem before the draft and it is a little better now, but as you said, Martin is not going to contribute a lot early (neither do most 4th rounders). The worry over Martin is because he is the only option brought in through the draft that could possibly address the pre-draft DL need for depth. If you don’t think we had a depth need at DL then you have a lot more confidence in Jamal and Castillo’s health than I do.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on May 1, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm saying is
That you couldn’t have addressed the need much better than Martin with the exception of Jackson. Most of the other guys drafted that had the size and strength for the position would have been facing a learning curve as well. So, instead you have Martin who is bigger, stronger and faster. Judging from the way A.J. talked about the guy, there is some optimism that he will contribute this year.
That last sentence you posted made me feel dirty since I’m the guy who’s been all over A.J. for the last 5 years for not drafting any depth on the line. That being said, I think he did the best the could do. There was absolutely nothing left by the 3rd round and guys like Hood and Moala would have been major reaches in the first round.
I guess I’m just letting my worries go since it feels like crying over spilled milk. There really wasn’t a way to address this better than we did in the draft or free agency without making some trades. The move from Olshansky to Bingham probably won’t hurt that much because of Olshansky’s struggles, but, obviously, the defense was lousy so the status quo is not necessarily good. I kind of feel the same about safety too. We’d have liked to upgrade Hart, but the opportunity wasn’t there (although I would have liked Rashad Johnson in a Chargers uniform). So I figure, let it go and root for Martin to succeed. I already made the statement during the draft after English was drafted (since he’s not a starter) that “finding at least one major contributor to the 2009 team from the next 4 picks as well as 1-2 future contributors.” It may be Martin that is that major contributor.
Memo to baseball managers: You manufacture runs by NOT making outs, not by making them on purpose.
by Wonko on May 1, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
