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Week 13 DVOA Rankings

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via media.signonsandiego.com

It's that time of the week again. The Football Outsiders Week 13 DVOA Rankings have been released, and there's some good news, middling news, and some bad news for the Chargers. I bet you all can guess which is which. I know everyone isn't a fan of DVOA, and I'm well aware of its flaws, but I think it's pretty interesting to see what it says about where the Chargers stand in the NFL.

Star-divide

First, the bad news. As many likely predicted, the San Diego defense has plummeted even further down the list. The Chargers rank # 25, falling from #19 last week. Their weighted mark is only a couple spots better, #22. The pass defense is #20, and the rush defense is #27. This pretty much confirms the sentiment many of us got while watching the game Sunday that our defense was not very good. The opponent adjustment probably hurt here as well, given that they surrendered so many yards and points to the 28th best offense in the league. I realize that they were without three starters, but when you remember that one of those starters is going to miss at least one more game and the other two might as well, the abysmal performance of our backups against a terrible offense doesn't do much to inspire confidence going into the next three games. I think Wonko's comment a couple days ago is apt--our best defense is our offense, which can throw up points real fast and force other teams to abandon the run and throw every down. This leads me to the good news...

 

The San Diego offense continues to climb the charts. Last week the Chargers ranked #7 in offensive efficiency, while this week they move up to #5, with a weighted mark of #4, behind only New Orleans, New England, and Indianapolis. The Chargers also sport the #1 passing offense in the NFL, and it's not close anymore, with the Patriots being almost 10% behind San Diego in passing DVOA. So what's dragging the Chargers down? San Diego's rushing attack is #30 in football, better only than Chicago and Kansas City. While it hurts, the fact that the overall offense ranks so high is a testament to just how good Philip Rivers, his receivers, and his offensive line have been.

So what's the middling news? These two phases of the game mostly cancel each other out, leaving the Chargers again just about middle of the pack in overall team efficiency. There's been no movement from last week in overall DVOA (#13) or weighted DVOA (#12). Overall, the team remains slightly above average. FO head honcho Aaron Schatz finds it strange that despite this, the Chargers are tied with the Bengals for the 4th best record in football:

San Diego, allegedly the "hot team nobody wants to play in the postseason," is just 13th despite a 9-3 record. This warrants more analysis, but I've sort of run out of time and space for this week, so we'll analyze it next week, either in Any Given Sunday (if they lose to the Cowboys) or the DVOA Analysis (if they beat the Cowboys).

The fact that the Chargers are 9-3 instead of 7-5 or 6-6 is, to me, explainable by the awesomeness that is Philip Rivers, Vincent Jackson, and Antonio Gates. They've likely helped San Diego win two or three more games than they should have (the first Oakland and New York games immediately come to mind). While it's nice to have this, it means that the margin for error on offense is razor-thin. Philip and his guys can't make very many mistakes, and the fact that they largely haven't made mistakes is probably why the team has gone on this streak. Whether that's sustainable or not, I have no idea. I'd like to think it is, but it doesn't bode well for the Chargers heading into the playoffs against another good team that also doesn't make lots of mistakes.

In the playoff odds department, the Chargers picked up another 5.4%, and now have a 97.6% chance of making the playoffs, as well as a 53.2% chance of securing a bye, which is the highest in the AFC behind the Colts. The hated Denver Broncos also significantly improved their playoff odds, and now stand at 92.9%, with 63.7% chance of securing a wild card berth.

San Diego skill players on offense continue to lead their respective positions. Philip Rivers now leads all quarterbacks in DVOA (value per play), and is #4 in DYAR (overall value) behind only Brady, Manning and Brees. He had the third best overall quarterback performance this week, and FO had this to say about Phil's performance in Cleveland:

In another weird down split, Rivers' first pass on second down was an incompletion to Antonio Gates. Suitably chastened, he promptly completed each of his other nine attempts on second down, gaining a total of 219 yards and picking up either a first down or a touchdown on each of the passes. That's nothing new for Rivers; 66.1 percent of his completions have resulted in either first downs or touchdowns, the highest such percentage in the league for any starting quarterback. Mark Sanchez is second at 64.6 percent; competing for last (minimum: 50 attempts) are 49ers quarterbacks Alex Smith and Shaun Hill, at 46.3 percent and 44.8 percent, respectively.

Antonio Gates leads all NFL tight ends in DYAR, and the disparity between him and the #2 tight end (Dallas Clark) isn't even close.

After a year off with various maladies, Gates has returned to the elite level of play he was at from 2004 through 2007. His total of 994 yards is already his second-best total as a pro, and he'll have four more games to get past his career high of 1101, set in 2005. The difference is that Gates is still only at four touchdowns this year despite having eight or more in each of the last five seasons. With plenty of options available near the goal line, though, the Chargers will be happy with the extra yards, even at the cost of fewer touchdowns.

Vincent Jackson has regained his place as the top wide receiver in both DYAR and DVOA, though he didn't rate among the top five receiver performance this weekend, and so wasn't mentioned.

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This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.

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If you were to ask the FO guys why the disparity between our record and DVOA

they’d likely reply “Norv Turner”. I’ve noticed that they have a fairly strong bias against Turner which I don’t think is warranted. I think the problems on defense stem from injuries and a lack of talent, and on offense from a struggling offensive line and a declining running back. I don’t think Turner can be blamed for any of that, especially since he’s actually significantly improved his game management skills.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 3:08 PM PST reply actions  

The reason they blame Turner...

…is that his teams have historicly performed worse then their projections, usually a few games below their start of season predictions.

On that note, because the Chargers are playing ABOVE their statistical expectations, there’s two explinations: “Luck” (Or random chance. Close games tend to be a coin flip, and this year, they’ve been going our way) or “Coaching”. Norv Turner would be the reason the Chargers are doing so well compared to their stats.

by DanTails on Dec 8, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

You're right.

The Chargers are performing better than their current statistical expectation, though they are underperforming their pre-season projections, which had them as far and away the best team in football.

While I think Turner has improved his abilities as a coach, I think a lot of the Chargers’ success is due to luck, and their pass offense being so good that it can overcome some of the team’s deficiencies.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually

FO backed off the “far and away the best team in football” projection when they released their final ones right before the season started. I can’t recall the reason, something they plugged into the formula was different from when they ran the projections midsummer. They were still projected to be the best team, just not “far and away”.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

FWIW

They are far-and-away the best team in football at the most important aspect of the game, and they are underperforming largely in places where their star players have gone on IR.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 10, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, and Richard

I’d be much obliged if you could post our weekly graph.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 3:16 PM PST reply actions  

Richard and Wonko...you got to Maestro...

BUT YOU’LL NEVER GET ME!

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 3:51 PM PST reply actions  

Heh.

I’m still not saying that DVOA is everything. But I think it’s useful, because it helps measure what the team does well. And the Chargers just aren’t a great team; they’re a decent team with a great passing game, and that can overcome a lot of other deficiencies, though it does lead to a lot of high blood pressure weekends.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

It's just so much simpler

To be able to have a stat that encompass such a variety of concepts into a single rating. The only comparably accurate method would be to write entire paragraphs analyzing each teams and that’s just too cumbersome. This way you start with your number that defines your rankings and then try to explain why the perception and the numbers don’t match.

It’s also a standardized way to rank teams. I have no clue what the evaluation processes of any of the “experts” are. What aspects do they value? Do they watch every play of every game? Do they have any formulas they use? Do they have biases? Do they understand fumble luck? Do they understand opponent adjustments? With DVOA, you know what you’re getting.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

As long as you trust their formula

I’ve read their factors and heard their explanations, and I buy that they’re considering the right things. Have they weighed them properly? How would I know? How, for that matter, would FO know? I mean, I know how they think they know, but how do all the little changes in rules and trends throw off their projections? There’s a place for these sorts of amalgamated stats, but I think the best way to look at DVOA/DYAR/other FO stats is to consider them with other amalgamated stats and to look for points of agreement and departure for comparison with one’s own observation.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 10, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Another line I meant to add but forgot

is that after the first couple games of the season and we realized our defense just wasn’t very good, we said that this team would go as far as Philip Rivers could carry them. The numbers are bearing that out.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 4:32 PM PST reply actions  

Sure, that's mostly true

But Rivers only has the ability to do that because the line is keeping him upright and not committing penalties combined with receivers being some of the NFL’s elite. And, of course, I couldn’t finish a Chargers offensive analysis without sticking in the addition-by-subtraction of getting rid of Chambers to keep drives from stalling. I’m not trying to bring down anyone’s thoughts on Rivers, but there are a lot of things that have come together for the passing game to be so dominant.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Very true.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know

The running game hasn’t been exactly dominant by any means, but it’s won a lot of games for us.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Damn "it has" contraction FAIL

Back to issue preclusion and joinder

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

"won a lot of games for us"?

That seems like a stretch.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Well LT has the most TDs on the team for one thing.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt he could have scored that many

without the passing game putting us inside the 10, and keeping defenses from stacking the line up too much in those situations.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I would like to see the running game

finish off a game for us. I feel like we’ve been close in a few games. But I would really like to see a game where we are up by 3 or so with 5 minutes left, we get the ball and run the time off the clock.

Pass to set up the run…

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Dec 8, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

That happened in the Philly game

and we pretty much passed our way down the field, and only ran once we got to the 2min warning.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude don't you remember Hester and Tolbert in the Broncos game?

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

thats the one I felt pretty good about

but we’ve needed to do it in most of our other wins and haven’t tried or been able to.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Dec 9, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

There’s your graph. Below average in Cleveland.

Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi

by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2009 6:11 PM PST reply actions  

Yikes.

So our terrible defensive showing more than canceled out our good performance on offense.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep

The Browns first string offense is better than our second string defense. Good to know.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Best game of the year for our passing offense, though. Over 150% DVOA.

Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi

by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm glad.

We’ll need it the next three weeks.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Hope this downward trend

Doesn’t mean we’ve peaked too early. That being said, some of this has to do with the deliverate strategy on Rivera’s part to keep things simple in the Cleveland game.

I’m with the people above – having an elite QB makes all the difference in the world. I wonder how we’d compare to the late 80s Broncos (Elway) and Dolphins (Marino) in terms of DVOA?

"As a confirmed melancholic, I can testify that the best and maybe only antidote for melancholia is *action*. However, like most melancholics, I suffer also from sloth." - Edward Abbey.

by Jeff (sliderockmpc) on Dec 8, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions  

For now...

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

You just reminded me that it goes back to 1994. Added a graph.

Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi

by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Ha nice.

Just goes to show that if you get in, any team can go on a hot streak and go all the way to the big game.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm kind of glad that the stats show that the Chargers weren't the best AFC team that year

For me, it always felt like the Chargers overcame some long odds to get to the Super Bowl that year. It would have been disappointing to find out the DVOA could have predicted (had it been around)

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Me too.

Every time I watch a replay of the game vs. Miami or the AFC Championship vs. Pittsburgh, the announcers always say how incredible it is the Chargers were there, how they were picked to finish last in their division, let alone win it and get to the Super Bowl. How they lost their best running back wide receiver, etc. How they won in Pittsburgh without Leslie O’Neal…

Yeah, our boys in ’94 were an incredibly unlikely Super Bowl team, and it sure was fun to see them overcome everything they did.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

My takeaway from it was that having a bye in Week 5 means you go to the Super Bowl.

Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi

by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Woot!

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Proof DVOA sucks?

I think I remember that team being pretty good that year.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions  

You remember wrong.

Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi

by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I remember John Carney kicking gobs of field goals

because we couldn’t get into the end zone.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 11:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I remember some QB from BYU being really good

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 8, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

They were pretty good

DVOA says that. But, Super Bowl good? Not unless they played their asses off and put every bit of passion into winning those games. And did that do that? Damn right they did. They earned that AFC Championship, but they didn’t do it by dominating the regular season, they did it by putting it together when it counted.

and… cough… staying healthy… cough.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's to hoping the 2009 Chargers can do the same thing.

Reading the comments on this week’s DVOA, Colts fans are salivating a bit at the chance to take us on again in the playoffs. One even said they think if the Colts win the Super Bowl without beating the Chargers, they wouldn’t feel complete.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

but Wonko, look up

how often the teams with the highest DVOA in the AFC and NFC have gone to the superbowl in the last decade.

by nicklusk on Dec 9, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

that is the best, most informative comment ever on this site

it should be an article on its own.
well done Wonko.
that info doesn’t seem to bode too well for our team this year.
our defense is mediocre (not terrible), that’ll be the killer for us this year I think

by nicklusk on Dec 9, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not to say it's impossible

just more difficult. We’re not good enough to beat anybody if the offense makes mistakes. The Chargers have to play near flawlessly, and get some lucky bounces along the way.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 9, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

SUPERB Analysis

I agree with Nick. Thanks Wonko.

Given the correctly-termed “razor-thin” margin for error on offense we have, I’ll go out on a limb and say, given our defense, the only way we can win 3 or 4 post-season games and win it all will be if in at least one or two play-off games, Turner is willing to gamble and use the passing game as ball-control, a la the 49ers of the ’90’s (and the West Coast offense) or even how the Patriots sometimes run their offense.

I know we don’t have a prototypical slot receiver like Wes Welker (although we DID have him at one point…), but we have SO many weapons in our passing game…. I know the threat of the running game is part of what can make any offense effective, and I also know Turner and just about every coach rightly values a balanced offense, but when you’ve got a good team which is mediocre (or just plain bad) in some areas, I’m talking about making some bold moves to become a champion. Moves that without their being made are likely to have you coming up short against a really good team at some point — when you have to play at least 2 if not 3 really good teams consecutively….

For the most part Turner doesn’t seem like the guy to take this approach and, with this team (and its flaws and injuries), get us to the promised land, BUT he has been opening up the play-book more and taking some more chances, so maybe he just might recognize the necessity of doing it more.

What I’m saying is that at some point (and if it’s not until the play-offs, so be it), we’re going to have to see more of Legedu, more passing, maybe even Osgood in the offense, more spread formations, some no-huddle, whatever it takes: play to your strength, and basically to say to whatever defense, “We’re better than you, and you can’t stop us. Go ahead and try, but we’ll just pick you apart.”

Rivers is potentially an MVP in this league, and not that I care about individual honors/stats like that, but when you’ve got a guy who is that good, he’s the horse you ride to sail down the down the backstretch and beat the rest of the field (of other really good competitors) — especially when you’ve got all the weapons he needs as far as his receiving corps goes….

by jctess on Dec 10, 2009 1:54 AM PST up reply actions  

If you gave the Patriots a choice, they’d take Gates at TE over Welker at WR every time.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Dec 10, 2009 6:18 AM PST up reply actions  

It really should be it’s own FanPost. I could dissect that for weeks.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Dec 10, 2009 6:17 AM PST up reply actions  

The best part of that graph?

The Raiders are abbreviated as “LARD”

by Lenny Suckerpunch on Dec 9, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

That's true.

But at the same time, we played very poorly on defense.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 9, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's something interesting.

Last year we had the league’s #1 overall ranked offense, and the #1 passing offense as well. The difference was that last year’s rush offense was #18, twelve spots better than present.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 7:28 PM PST reply actions  

I feel like the only difference between

last year’s run offense and this year’s is that we aren’t running as much. But we still seem just as inept this year as last.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Dec 8, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Worse this year.

Offensive line and injuries. Also fewer carries, but that matter as much because when we do run we’re unsuccessful.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel

without looking at numbers (even though I’m sure I have at one point or another) that last year we were like “man, LT just can’t break those long runs anymore” where he’d hit a hole, but didn’t have that extra something to get free. This year we’re like “holes?!?!? What f***ing holes??!?!?” where there is just nowhere to run at all.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Dec 8, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty much been a perfect storm to kill our running game this season.

LT injured
LT declining
Offensive line struggling
Bad defense leading to early deficits
Effectiveness of the passing game

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 8, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

There’s also something to be said for the running game being so one-dimensional. LT and Sproles are both speed guys, and neither is breaking a tackle these days. They’re almost the same player, except Sproles has more speed and LT has more experience. When Rivers hands off the ball, the LBs know that their job is to get to the outside before the RB.

In the past, the Chargers had a power guy (whether or was Turner or Chatman) that the defense at least had to prepare for and keep an eye out for. I think, as we get closer to the playoffs, Tolbert will get more and more carries just to keep the LBs in place at the center of the field longer.

Off-the-wall accompanying theory: Practicing against these guys, who are easy to tackle once you get to them, could be part of the reason our defense struggles against power backs and never seems very good at tackling.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Dec 9, 2009 4:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Chatman!

That’s a RB we should get back on the team. I know he had some success with Miami after leaving the Chargers.

by SJO on Dec 9, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw an article on him either last year or in 2007 that basically said he left football after getting injured and then getting fat. He wasn’t exactly a kid when he started getting carries with the Chargers.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Dec 10, 2009 6:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Rivers picture

Why does River’s always look like an arthritic old man after throwing the football?

by SJO on Dec 9, 2009 5:44 PM PST reply actions  

because he holds nothing back?

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Dec 10, 2009 6:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Something interesting I found.

There are other advanced football stat sites. I don’t know enough to say if they complement what FO does or replace it, but it’s interesting nonetheless.

The site I was checking out is Advanced NFL Stats. They measure team efficiency as well, in a different way than FO does (here’s his methodology; I’m not enough of a statistician to understand).

In this guy’s statistical model, the Chargers have been climbing the charts and going into Week 14 sit at #3 overall, behind only the Saints and Colts.

So there are other schools of thought out there besides Football Outsiders.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 9, 2009 7:20 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Blasphemy! A wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN HERRRR!

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 9, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 9, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I couldn’t possibly try to figure out the methodology, but the results are good. Those are, essentially, the top 3 teams in the league right now (or at least the 3 with the longest winning streaks).

Also, and this is only after a glance at his weekly team efficiency reports, it would appear that neither the Chargers nor the Titans really dove down too much in the rankings when they were losing games.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Dec 10, 2009 6:23 AM PST up reply actions  

One of the reasons I think this is really interesting

We give FO and DVOA a lot of credit because they find that DVOA is strongly correlated with winning.

The guy who runs ANS has found his stats are also strongly correlated with winning. He’s even created a predictive model with it that tracks live in-game win probability, similar to what they do at Fangraphs with baseball games, and it’s results over 70% accurate.

Another interesting thing (and this is really interesting, to me) is that he attempts to track the influence of luck, meaning which teams have won or lost more than they should have based on their efficiency. In the latest analysis, the Chargers are almost exactly in line with their expected win totals based on their efficiency—they’re expected to have 9.2 wins and they have 9 actual wins.

"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 10, 2009 7:34 AM PST up reply actions  

I think one cool thing about football

is that it can teach you so many things about life, and it’s really given me an insight into the value of statistics and how interesting they can be.

sweet

by nicklusk on Dec 10, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

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