2009 Chargers Pro Bowl Discussion
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 3:54 PM PST
in San Diego Chargers News
Email
PrintI figured I'd post this here so we could all talk about which Chargers made it, which ones didn't, and which ones should have. While official announcements haven't been made, we know via ESPN and twitter that both Antonio Gates and Kassim Osgood are in. We also know from Kevin Acee that two more made it as well. Here's to hoping it's Phil and Vincent, as we know both are extremely deserving.
EDIT: Acee just gave it away. Philip Rivers, Gates, Kris Dielman, Osgood, and Nate Kaeding are the Chargers Pro Bowlers. Congrats, fellas!
219 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If I recall the early voting returns
I assume one of the remaining Chargers is Dielman.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
What about Nate?
I would think Kaeding is deserving as well. Rivers should be a lock. VJ should be there too.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Rich Eisen tweeted earlier
that there were some “surprising snubs”.
I bet neither Philip nor Vincent made it. I bet your AFC QBs will be Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger, and wide receivers will be some mix of Reggie Wayne, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Andre Johnson, Chad Johnson, and Santonio Holmes.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 3:59 PM PST reply actions
Oh and probably Brandon Marshall too.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
People should really stop giving that guy accolades.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
by Wonko on Dec 29, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec’d.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
I still can't believe
That he found a woman in the stands wearing his jersey to give a ball to a couple weeks ago. She is either very ignorant or not a fan of her gender.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Agreed, but
Regardless of his off the field issues, pro-bowl is based on “on field performance”. Due to his record setting 21 catches, it’s not a stretch that he made the pro-bowl. I believe this is his first honor?
I'll give you a guarantee
On Andre and Reggie. The rest I’m not so sure about. I’m surprised to see Ochocinco in the mix though. And it seems like Santonio isn’t considered elite by the masses.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
In the highlights to open the selection show
they didn’t have a single Charger.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:01 PM PST reply actions
Manning is the AFC starter.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:02 PM PST reply actions
As if there was any question.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Brees is the NFC starter.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:03 PM PST reply actions
Acee just gave it away.
Rivers, Osgood, Dielman, Gates, and Kaeding.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:03 PM PST reply actions
Yup.
Dielman is just a popularity/momentum vote now. Vincent was the best receiver in football this year. It’s really too bad.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Third alternate. It’s a bit of a joke.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
There are better players
Marshall needs to be there, Andre johnson needs to be there, Wes welker needs to be there…I guess Reggie Wayne is the only one you scould switch
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
It's not arguable.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
I'd swap out Marshall
Andre, Reggie and Wes need to be there. Marshall needs to be picking up trash by the highway.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Marshall doesn’t need to be there nor does Welker.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
I need to lay off the crack. Welker belongs.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Nice to see
Rivers on that list. The fact he was over looked last year was ridiculous IMO.
by SoCalBoltFan on Dec 29, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
Rivers is the #2 AFC quarterback
ahead of Tom Brady.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:04 PM PST reply actions
Five Chargers selected as alternates as well
Darren Sproles, wide receiver Vincent Jackson, punter Mike Scifres, left tackle Marcus McNeill and cornerback Antonio Cromartie
thats good at least
where did you find that info?
just wanna take a look at the list
Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.-Einstein
It's front-paged on NFL.com.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Scifres was caught behind Lechler, right?
Mr. “I-Outpunt-My-Coverage-Every-Damn-Time, But-All-Of-Them-Run-4.2s-So-It’s-Cool”?
I don’t think the above would fit on a jersey, but if it did I would wear it.
Banned from Arrowhead Pride... and Music City Miracles certainly don't like me very much, either.
"Ah act the way ah feel." --Elvis Presley
by StrangeBroP25 on Dec 29, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
I like to see Aaron Rogers in there with Favre.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:05 PM PST reply actions
There's nothing Scifres can do
to make the Pro Bowl.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:06 PM PST reply actions
Break Lechler's legs?
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Play on a crappier team.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
At this point he might as well start treating his annual snub as a badge of honor.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
None of this will matter...will it?
Since the Chargers will be playing the weekend after the Pro-bowl anyway, right?
I am just saying…
Do or do not. There is no try.
by Clip Show on Dec 29, 2009 4:06 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Scifres is in a bad spot...
Chargers don’t punt nearly enough to get him the stats
High scoring teams have that problem
Philly has a great punter in Sav Rocca, a former AFL player, but he doesn’t get enough punts because of the Eagles offense and David Akers.
Angels 2010: We need a starting pitcher, not a kneeless hitter!
The AFC wide receivers
Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Marshall, and Wes Welker.
Never mind that Jackson has been better than all of them this year.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:07 PM PST reply actions
Yup.
Better than every receiver in the NFL this year.
Just because Marshall catches a lot of 3-5 yard passes doesn’t mean he’s that great.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
I saw a stat on Xmas
87% (something like that) of passes VJ catches result in First downs.
The one and only AzDuck
Jackson: 58/68 Receptions are for first downs; 85.3%
Marshall: 56/101 Receptions for first down; 55.4%
Dinking and dunking
YES.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
He is the MVP of the Broncos, imo
The offense there runs through him. He has single handedly won at least two games for the Broncos
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Good for him.
It doesn’t make him better than Jackson.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
He’s the 25th most productive receiver in the NFL. 38th on a per play basis. He has no business being in the Pro Bowl. Malcom Floyd has been better in both categories.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Jackson, by far, has been better
Jackson: 68 receptions for 1,167 yards and 9 TDs; 17.16 YPC; One in every 7.5 receptions for a TD
Marshall: 101 receptions for 1,120 and 10 TDs; 11.09 YPC; One in every 10.1 receptions for a TD
People get blinded by Marshall's catch numbers.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
Marshall is all alone
He can expected heavy coverage on every play and still gets all those completions. He set the single games receotions record. He has too be there, 100 recept. with a game to play.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
But the catches he gets
Don’t help the team as much as the catches VJ gets. Why are two catches that don’t result in first downs and cause the team to punt better than one catch that moves the chains?
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
by Wonko on Dec 29, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
x2
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
The better stats are available to everyone
It shouldn’t be about stats anyway. It should be about production.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
in Marshall's favor
he is putting up very impressive numbers with have Kyle Orton throwing him the ball…
KYLE freaking ORTON !!!
but I still think VJ has had a better year (but not by a lot)
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Dec 29, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
25th in DYAR and 38th in DVOA is not that impressive.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
Orton is ok. He's not the PR Machine, but he's not awful.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
VJ isn't even the best receiver on his team
Gates is a better receiver than VJ, and draws more of the defensive coverage from VJ. I think VJ should be there, but not over Marshall.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
Gates and Jackson
have made almost equal contributions to the Chargers this year. Jackson slightly more. They both have been the best at their respective positions this year.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Without Gates Jackson gets crapped on all day with double teams
Which teams do to Marshall and he STILL gets all the catches he does. How is Welker better than Marshall then? Marshall is all alone and can serve as both a short yardage guy and a deep threat, this argument is silly.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
But his catches aren't as useful
And he’s not much of a deep threat.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
It's because the Chargers have other weapons and threats
That they don’t have to force the ball to Jackson when he’s double-teamed.
Without gates
There is Floyd, Naanee, Sproles, and tolbert. We have more options then those two.
The one and only AzDuck
And they have
Royal, Graham, Sheffler, Stokely and Gaffney. Those guys are really chopped liver.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
*aren't
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
You really want to open that can of worms
Gates is one of the greatest TE of all-time. Period. So he instantly makes it easier for the rest of the offense. Anbd yeah, I’ll take our guys to those old bums in Denver.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Gates being great doesn't make Marshall any better
Andre Johnson has no one else in Houston, but he’s produced better than Marshall. The Broncos had the best running game in the NFL in 2008 and Marshall still couldn’t put in an above average performance.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
I'm not saying
you’re wrong about VJ being better than Marshall. However, you’re saying some people are blind but you’re being kinda VJ fanboish with your arguments now. To say our receiving core hasn’t made life tons easier on VJ is silly. Of course it has, much more so than Denver’s receiving core has made life easier on Marshall.
Marshal is dealing with a mediocre passer (who has a hard time with the deep ball, so of course his receptions wont be as deep), a mediocre passing core (besides him) and decent running. With that he’s still put up close to equal numbers as VJ, who has an excellent deep baller, an amazing receiving core besides him, and a decent running game (in our last 5-10 games).
Marshall is arguably better than VJ. ARGUABLY. It’s hard to say he shouldn’t be there over VJ. Just like it’s hard to say VJ shouldn’t be there over him.
Marshall is not arguably better than VJ. At least not in the sense that arguably means “capable of being argued plausibly.”
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
Wonko likes the Chargers
but his arguments are not based on being a fanboy. He just believes in the methodology and logic behind a few stats like DVOA and DYAR. And by those metrics, VJ is ranked way ahead of Marshall.
As are a lot of other WRs in the NFL
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Well
If Chargers players are participating in the Pro Bowl then there’s a good chance Wayne or Welker would need to opt out.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
He is a beast, best receiver in the NFL right now.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
By what criteria?
You can look at him and say you think he’s the best, but Jackson has produced more this year than either of them.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
He didn't say most productive
He said best.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Andre might be more productive too
He has more yards per game, and more explosive plays of 20 or more.
Johnson hasn't been more productive than Jackson this year.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Or any world that isn't based on short yardage receptions that don't get 1st downs.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
So you live in a world where 10 yards is the only way to get a first down?
Maybe that is because SD has NO RUNNING GAME!!!
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
10 yards?
Have you heard of 3rd and 3 or 2nd and 7 or….
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Are you agruing a 4 yard pass on 3 and 3 won't get a first down?
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
He's arguing that it will.
Jackson makes the 4 yard catch on 3rd and 3. Marshall makes the 4 yard catch on 3rd and 10.
Which is more valuable?
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
I guess it depends on who is coaching
Marty would think both are good, 4 yards forward is 4 yards forward
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
The point we're trying to make
is that Marshall makes a lot of meaningless catches. He’ll catch a 5 yard pass on 3rd and 8. A 6 yard catch on 3rd and 14. He racks up a lot of receptions that way, but a substantial number of them are meaningless.
Jackson, meanwhile, has at least 87% of his catches go for first downs or touchdowns. That’s more valuable and thus more productive than Brandon Marshall.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
Can you really say a 6 yards catch on 1st down is meaningless?
Its not for a first down, but its better than a run.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
That isn't meaningless.
It’s meaningless when it’s short of the sticks on 3rd or 4th down. And he has a lot of those.
He also has a lot of catches that, while not on 3rd or 4th down, are still very short. 1-3 yard pick-ups on 1st or 2nd and 10 aren’t nearly as valuable.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
That actually is a success using the stats we are talking about
45% on first down
60% on second down
100% on third down.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
No, in a world where first downs count as first downs
As pointed out above:
Jackson: 58/68 Receptions are for first downs; 85.3%
Marshall: 56/101 Receptions for first down; 55.4%
Dinking and dunking
So not only do more of VJ's catches result in first downs
But VJ actually has 2 more first-down receptions than Marshall, with 33 fewer catches
Look at the stat that creanium posted
85.3%(VJ) of catches for 1st down > 55.4%(Marshall)
The one and only AzDuck
The world
that doesn’t depend on raw numbers where a guy can catch 100 balls for 3 yards each and get declared a hall of fame receiver.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
95, 1500 yards for Andre Johnson
And that is less productive than 68 for 1170
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
He was thrown at 162 times
VJ only 108.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
So based on %s
VJ catches 3% less catches thrown at him than AJ
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
4% more actually
VJ’s catch % is 63%
AJ;s is 59%.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Marshall's catch % is the same as VJ's, by the way
NOT arguing for Marshall OVER VJ.
Marshall’s drops are certainly his responsibility, but how do we know that his productivity’s being less than VJ’s isn’t significantly due to the schemes his offense is running versus those ours is?… Not to mention the schemes the defenses run against him versus those run against the Chargers and VJ.
If an NBA team double teams Kobe Bryant and he jacks up a high number of shots anyway, making a low percentage, rather than passing out of it, that’s on him…. If he passes the ball out of it and his passes don’t result in direct assists, he has (for him) a low scoring night, and the team wins anyway, it doesn’t look like he did much (relatively)…. Maybe not the best parallel….
Maybe the guys at FO acknowledge the shortcomings of their stats better than anyone else:
“We cannot yet fully separate the performance of a receiver from the performance of his quarterback. Be aware that one will affect the other.”
“These statistics measure only passes thrown to a receiver, not performance on plays when he is not thrown the ball, such as blocking and drawing double teams.”
I might add that they don’t take into account when the WR gets thrown to when HE’S being double-teamed either (whether he catches it or not)….
Again, I’m not saying Marshall should have been in over VJ; in fact, I would have voted for VJ.
But just because the very good DVOA stats say that VJ’s the most productive receiver and that Marshall’s #25 doesn’t mean that VJ’s the best receiver in all of football and that Marshall’s the 25th best. I know no one here is saying that either, but while there may not be a better way of measuring these things at this point, as the FO guys themselves acknowledge, these stats can’t take everything into account.
Marshall's currently #14 in the AFC
according to these stats. In terms of how they measure productivity. Of course. ;)
NUMBERS
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Production is not a direct reflection on skill and ability
Sure its good, but its not direct. Like I’ve been saying about Marshall, he gets all the attention, and so does Johnson, so they have less production. But they makes a ton of play even when teams check down on them all the time. Andre Johnson is just crazy though
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
But shouldn't the Pro Bowl be about production
Not ability?
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
And he has > 100 Receps. Good way to get there
The average is less imp than the number.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
The number is stupid
Because the production from that number doesn’t back it up.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
And then there's the fact that he's a horrible person
Which makes it worse.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
I don't respect people that beat women
sorry.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Im sorry I thought this was a football board
And dont make me pull up a quote from you a day or two ago, when you said something like “I listen to the police blotter only so I know if a guy can play”
Im paraphrasing of course
Marshall shouldn't be playing
I almost added to that quote something about him. People that are a threat to others should be addressed. Tiger was not a threat to others.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
How many convictions has he had?
If we’re opening up the character bag of worms, VJ hasn’t exactly been a saint either.
Drunk drivers
are certainly threats to others
by Chilango on Dec 29, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
Not in the same regard
As a man who beats on the people he claims to love or prevents them from running off by beating a car with a baseball bat.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Drunk driving can be pretty damaging to
cars and lives…
I know it is in our culture to apologize for drunk driving because it is so widespread, but there really isn’t much that separates VJ and the douche that killed these people but luck.
by Chilango on Dec 31, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions
Just because
His girlfriends are too abused to prosecute, doesn’t make his actions any more forgivable or less violent.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
by Wonko on Dec 30, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
That’s like, totally backwards.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
What? That receptions are good for receivers?
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Quality
over quantity my man.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
So can we agree that Welker shouldn;t be there either?
Based on the recep. number only?
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Welker makes meaningful catches.
For him, his large number of receptions are meaningful and productive.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
Welker was more productive than Marshall
His productivity is second only to VJ this year. Marshall was waaaaay farther down the list.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Marshall is not the only guy on the Broncos with talent.
As Wonko just pointed out.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
What other measure would you use?
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
Thank God
they didn’t leave out Phil this year. That would have been criminal.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:17 PM PST reply actions
True that.
I kind of wish there was a way Schaub could get recognition, but not at the expense of our guy.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Is he an alternate?
he should be.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
It's criminial
That he wasn’t included in the MVP discussion, not that i think he will win, but that he isn’t up there.
The one and only AzDuck
How is he not in the discussion
He’s been in the discussions I’ve heard, but since he won’t win, why discuss him that much?
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
I should of clarified
A couple weeks back, he was nowhere near the discussion.
The one and only AzDuck
So lost now
which post are we replying to AHHHHHHHHH
Just give up
Admit that the only reason you like Marshall is that he has a gaudy number in a stat that really doesn’t show you the value of a WR.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
I'm gonna settle this right now
Jackson > Marshall. Moving on. LOL
by SoCalBoltFan on Dec 29, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't that how it should be
On the chargers blog, no matter what? (stat-backing or not)
The one and only AzDuck
Maybe a should start a fanpost backing Marshall
That’d be new on BTFB
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
The fanpost
Would get the same comments that have been placed, in this thread. Marshall clearly isn’t as good as VJ.
The one and only AzDuck
Are you some kind of quisling or what?
Jackson has been more efficient and more prolific in every stat EXCEPT receptions.
Banned from Arrowhead Pride... and Music City Miracles certainly don't like me very much, either.
"Ah act the way ah feel." --Elvis Presley
by StrangeBroP25 on Dec 29, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
Not if it isn’t true.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
I think VJ is great, and Marshall is as well
But what Marshall has done in Denver is more impressive to me than what VJ has done in VERY different circumstances in SD and therefore I think Marshall deserves the nod more than Jackson.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Marshall is far from great
This is the first year where his production level has even been above average. I’m still waiting for his boom or bust style to actually help an offense produce.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
What
>300 rec. in 3 yards is f-ing amazing
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
They are effectively unsuccessful running plays most of the time
300 carries is a good season, not a good 3 years.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
He has a career 12.5 average and he averages 100 catches a year
And you’re calling it bad running plays?
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
Jackson has a career average of 17.2 ypc
with WAY fewer catches. Jackson is more productive.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
The problems come from the balls he doesn't catch
mixing in with the ones he does. And the drive killing that happens when he can’t break tackles to get a first down and the team has to punt, or it forces them into 3rd and long or whatever. You have to use those catches to help the team. Marshall consistently in his career has been unable to do that.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Basically
What I’m saying is that if teams threw at their receiver as much as the Broncos throw to Marshall the other WRs would be much more productive in their styles than Marshall is, just based off of the numbers Marshall has put up over his career compared to everyone else.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Ahh screw it
You can have this round Wonko. I still think Marshall is a good pick and I will still feel righteous indignation for a Charger not getting picked, but I think the voters got it right this year. VJ needs more catches.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't about a Charger not getting picked
I’ll go to the mat for almost any WR in the league getting picked after Marshall. Marshall is just not a productive WR.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
That's all well and good when it comes to Team MVP voting
But for who the best in the entire league is? It’s hard to overlook the production and efficiency of Vincent Jackson
I would love to keep arguing
but my wife isn’t going to drive herself home from work. Catch you all later tonight.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 29, 2009 4:40 PM PST reply actions
Why not?
Gender equality or no? Make up your mind, wimmins!
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
OLine in the pro bowl
Is kind of a weird picking system. It’s more about consistently picking the popular guy no matter the production. It is probably the position where the discrepancy between performance and getting picked is highest.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
You can blame Dielman for that one
But I think McNeill has had a better yeaear from week one to now.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Did Osgood deserve it?
I am not even sure if he outperformed Tolbert on Special Teams for the Chargers this year.
Its always good to see Chargers make the Pro Bowl and nice to see a fair number of alternates as well.
Based on my perception
The most productive ST players this year have been Osgood And Hester.
by SoCalBoltFan on Dec 29, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Hester had the one big play
and has been useful on special teams, but I would be surprised if he has half the tackles on special teams that Tolbert has.
Actually he has made two big plays on STs
The first one was the strip against the Steelers that lead to a TD. And the Blocked punt against the Cheifs that lead to a TD. How many TDs has Tolbert scored on ST this year?
by SoCalBoltFan on Dec 29, 2009 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
BTW
Tolbert has 15 tackles and 6 assists. Hester has 8 tackles and 1 assist so your point is valid. I just think Hester’s two STs TDs outweigh the 7 more solo tackles that Tolbert made.
by SoCalBoltFan on Dec 29, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Not trying to Bash Hester
Just throwing out the idea that Osgood may not be the most valuable special teams player of the Chargers, much less deserving of a pro bowl selection as the best special teams player in the AFC.
I love Osgood
But I agree, from a purely physical stand point (tackles and turn overs), he may be equal with Tolbert and Hester. However, he is the most intelligent special teamer I know of, as evidenced by his sniffing out the fake punt a few weeks back before the coaching staff did. That level of knowledge and the leadership he brings with it are difficult to measure. I pray that Tolbert and Hester have been good students of KO, cause when he’s gone their play making ability and the remnants of his smarts will be wicked together.
AJ needs to lock up VJ
Chargers offense mismatches are predicated on Gates and VJ both needing double teams and Rivers making the right decision. AJs locked up Rivers and Gates but VJ needs to get done before he keeps getting more expensive. I assume we’ll lose Malcolm although he’s pretty loyal.
At least Al Davis isn't running my team's drafts.
by bringbackbuddytrees on Dec 29, 2009 4:51 PM PST reply actions
Bengals won their division
And are Pro Bowler free.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
How does that work exactly?
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Who would you have included from the Bengals?
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
Leon Hall maybe?
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
How many corners make the team?
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Don't know
Truthfully, I haven’t analyzed the rosters.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
3 apparently
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
I just wonder
If a division winner has ever not had anyone make the Pro Bowl before.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
You could argue for Benson over R. Rice.
I guess.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Naw
If Benson was healthy, he would’ve taken MJD’s spot.
Look at Ray Rice’s yards from scrimmage. He’s a big playmaker. Cedric Benson doesn’t make many huge plays.
Angels 2010: We need a starting pitcher, not a kneeless hitter!
I've heard that Kyle Cook has made a big difference at C
Mangold and Saturday are legacy picks there. No one would have cared if he made it instead of one of them. But, like I said, OLineman work funny in the Pro Bowl.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
How is this not entirely moot?
There won’t be any Chargers in the Pro Bowl.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 29, 2009 5:18 PM PST reply actions
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Actually
I just like a good debate. It’s a chance to do some learning. But, I imagine others want some Bolt Respect.
I'm the first person to admit that I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I'm going to be the last person to admit I'm wrong about what we're currently talking about.
Why are they doing this before the season is over?!
It’s ridiculous. Guys could have standout games in very meaningful games. Other guys could choke or disappear.
They started voting before the season was half over. The whole process is stupid.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 29, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Could be worse
Football is the only sport where they even try to wait til the end of the season. MLB, NBA, NHL all-star games are all mid-season.
by riversformvp on Dec 29, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed, but with only one week to go, just wait another week
Okay, so the fans can do their voting the last couple months of the season for their 33%, but everyone else should fill out their ballots after the regular season’s over.
I'm glad Jackson didn't get voted in.
I wouldn’t want to piss that guy off and now I’m sure he’s is. Jackson is a clutch player. He really started taking off during the playoffs when we made it to the AFC championship game. He’s got a huge chip on his shoulder now and I think he’s going to have a MONSTER post season. He probably would have anyway, but this just gives him extra motivation.
On a similar subject, I HATED to see the Chargers #1 on the SI power rankings. Let’s just slip under the radar and quietly take everyone out on the way to our first SB ring. I have no problem with that. Just win it all!
LOL. Agreed.
I just posted something similar in the “snubbed” thread. Word. I think this will just be FUEL for his VJ’s FIRE in the playoffs. Nobody should ever be snubbed for their hard work but in the long run, this is a good thing.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
u guys
will be in the super bowl if u keep playing well the only team that can stop u is the refs lol
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule reseident broncos fan for ap lol
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bolts From The Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
BFTB Apparel Store
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Jonathan Vilma sues Roger Goodell for defamatory statements made during bounty investigation
- New York Giants receive Super Bowl XLVI rings
- Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring can be yours, unfortunately
- The Shutdown Corner Interview: New York Giants DL Justin Tuck
- AFL quarterback misses game to attend wedding
