Aaron Schatz: Norv Turner nearly had another fourth-quarter blown lead to add to his fine collection, but the Chargers came back. Is it wrong that I want to blame Turner for losses and credit Rivers (and Vincent Jackson) for wins? One thing Turner could do differently: Stop giving the ball to LaDainian Tomlinson so much. I also believed that he still had something left going into this season, but it's been nine weeks. He doesn't. He looks awful. We didn't want to believe he was toast, but he sure looks like toast.
about 2 years ago
Richard Wade
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I'm down for giving LT all the credit he deserves..
And taking into account the O-Line is not helping him at ALL… And Norv has some heart throb for Hester (I’m a Hester hater) instead of putting Tolbert in to help him. All that I get, I feel for LT.
But g’dammit, it’s all the time he stumbles over his own feet, blades of grass that apparently the lawn mower missed, the DE that doesn’t bother trying to tackle him because, why bother? He can just stick a foot out there and get the tackle without bothering to bend over!
It’s all those stumbles and trips and falls for no reason that make me grind my teeth and agree with posts like this. It pains me to say it, but stick a fork in the man. I’ve loved him and cheered for him for years. He was great, will always be great. Let him play out the year, make a big party out of it, and let him go. Always we will love you LT, we will always compare all of our future RB’s to you!
I’ll go on a Norv rant some other time.
Welcome to BFTB.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
We have to run at least a few times : )
We still gotta feed the running back some carries to at least keep the def semi? honest. I realize LT is not running like he use too, but the line really isn’t helping.
True, look at the Aztecs. 119/120 in rushing but top 20 in passing.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 10, 2009 7:08 AM PST up reply actions
Is it just me or is it absolutely
insane the pull LT still gets from linebackers?
Wonder if we can have more play action attempts than runs….
"There's a gleam, men! There's a gleam! Let's get that gleam!" - Marty Schottenheimer, never got his gleam.
I think we already do
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Nov 10, 2009 2:05 AM PST up reply actions
always gonna be a negative nancy..
on a positive note, i got to meet hank bauher and steve gregory at a charity event today.
both really cool guys.
i think i was one of the few people there who actually knew who steve was haha
Name appropriate
Yes shatz, it is wrong the way you apply credit and blame. I will say though, it’s quite typical of fans who have only been fans their whole life.
Teams win and teams lose.
When all else fails....
run Iso!
He didn't saying he was applying it that way
He said he wants to apply it that way.
It pretty much all stems from the in-depth article in 2007 where Football Outsiders concluded in almost every possible way that Norv Turner was a bad coach and his presence would hurt the Chargers. Since then, Aaron has been very critical of Norv whenever he does something similar to all the things they found wrong with him.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
I still think they started with a conclusion and worked to “prove” it.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
That's not typically their method
But I can’t claim to know either way.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
Let's not blame LT for the entire lack of running game
Three points
1- No running game will be as effective without Hardwick as it would be with Hardwick. He is a very smart guy, and makes others around him better. THe runing game will improve with him. No dis to Mooch, but he is a backup for a reason.
2- Tolbert is a better fullback, but AJ moved up a lot for Hester. Hester has to play or the egomaniac will have someone’s head on a plate
3- LT is not the same as 2-3 years ago, agreed. What I see is a RB who needs a hole, and can’t create his own. Let’s see how things are when Hardwick is calling the blocking assignment. If he still is ineffective, they need to use Benett and/or Sproles.
Hester has to play or the egomaniac will have someone’s head on a plate
I’m really curious where this idea that Smith won’t admit to making a mistake comes from. Also, he signed Tolbert so it’s not like he’d be replacing his guy with somebody else’s. Also, Tolbert has seen a lot of playing time considering he’s the backup fullback in a pass first offense.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
i think the the critizim is taking hester that high, and only using him as a “utility back”. there are many players that could fill that role, from the lower rounds. even a rookie free agent…
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
In what way does that begin to respond to my question?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
Ok so...
Whats this guys answer for our alternatives to L.T.? Bulk carries for Sproles? Hester? No seriously…does he just want us to abandon the run altogether?
I’m no football genius, I love hearing opinions and analysis from people who know more than me (most everyone). But the moment I read or hear “Norv’s fault” I instantly shut it off. I’m not even a huge supporter of his but I’m so sick of it. Maybe theres some validity to the critic’s opinion, but we’d never know because they don’t explain themselves. Its like during GW’s second term when it was becoming very popular to hate the guy. There was a good argument against him that eventually got drowned and diluted by idiots spouting “he sucks” without being able to give you a single example why.
This is the mentality of those people
Is it wrong that I want to blame Turner for losses and credit Rivers (and Vincent Jackson) for wins?
This blog has devolved into UT like, uncerebral blabber
by soulSD on Nov 10, 2009 12:55 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think...
Let’s face it, LT has NEVER been a power run it up the middle kind of back. He cut, he moved, he stiff armed ( still has the stiff arm at least). He’s lost most of the legs, doesn’t run well to the outside.
Personally? I’d like to see what Bennett has to offer running it up the middle. He seems more of a power back then LT. If you need to run it to the outside or screens why WOULDN’T you go to Sproles? Is Bennett a better all purpose back than LT? No, but I bet you he’d get 3 yards where LT gets 1 or 2, and 5 yards where LT gets 3. Thats all I want.
This is weird to say
but when it comes to the Chargers, Schatz has an anti-Norv bias that comes out far too often.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
I try not to be too on board the Anti-Norv bandwagon
But at least once a game; he’ll run a series (such as starting in the shotgun on our own 10, two screens that looked like the Giants D made the playcall, and then Sproles up the gut) that has zero chance of working. Or something like call a double reverse on 3rd and long that wouldn’t have worked against San Diego State. It seems like the team is starting to gel and get ready to make a run (a constant during Norv’s tenure here), but I’m sure my neighbors a block away are tired of hearing me ask just what the hell (I use a different expletive) he’s thinking…
by BleedsBlueNgold on Nov 10, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions
That wasn’t a double reverse. It was just a reverse.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Nope
Double-reverse.
(Shotgun) V.Jackson left end to NYG 47 for -4 yards (J.Tuck, M.Kiwanuka). NYG-M.Boley was injured during the play. Double reverse involving #43 D. Sproles.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Nov 10, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
I would also have called it a double reverse
But on second thought how is a hand off to the running back a reverse? I can’t recall, but maybe Sproles lined up in the slot and then took the hand off, in which case the double reverse moniker would seem more appropriate.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
I don’t believe he did, which actually was part of the reason the play failed.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Nov 10, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
So how is that play a double reverse?
If it was just a handoff to Sproles, it’s not considered a reverse, so how is it that when Sproles gives it to VJ, it’s considered double reverse? In my mind double reverse would have been if VJ then handed to another guy going back to the left.
Hmmm
Found a Football Glossary
According to that, the play meets the very definition of a reverse.
Definition: A play in which the running back receives a handoff from the quarterback and then runs laterally behind the line of scrimmage before handing off to a receiver running in the opposite direction.
Examples:
A reverse is often used against a defense that has a tendancy to overpursue.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
I found the same definitions.
So in this case it was a [reverse], not [double reverse]. John, how do you define this as a double reverse?
John was quoting the NFL's play by play data.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
This confusion comes from people calling the end around a reverse.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
I believe that play-call was....
1. Sack
2. Screen to Sproles – This play made complete sense. The Giants were riding high on momentum and the stadium was loud. They were going to come with the blitz. The screen pass was not only safe, it would go for a big gain if Sproles could get by the blitzers. Justin Tuck just blew this play up. Not because it was a bad call, but because he’s a Pro Bowler.
3. Sproles run for 1 yard – On 3rd and 26 from your own 4, you really don’t have any other choice. Run the ball up the middle and punt it. This wasn’t a playcall that was meant to pick up 27 yards. There are no plays like that.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Nov 10, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree...
with 1 and 2
I’m so NOT ok with running Sproles up the middle on a 3rd and 20+. Personally I find that HORRIBLE play calling. Why do you think they don’t have another choice? I’d rather see a screen to Sproles, Gates over the middle, Long to VJ or Floyd. Basically ANYTHING other than Sproles up the middle. I had to walk out of the bar for a second after that play.
because they were on their own 4. Obviously the Giants were looking for the screen. Any pass longer than 10 yards takes time to set-up. Any pass longer than 20 yards takes an eternity. That would be a long time for Rivers to be standing in his own end zone.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Nov 10, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that’s why a short pass over the middle, or even in the flat would have been a better option. in the flat is the man was cover PR could just throw it away. a quick slant, even if tackled, had a better chance of working than, than Sporles up th middle. espcailly when our running game, “sucks”.
peace out
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
None of those plays were going to convert 3rd & 27 and they are all riskier than handing it off up the middle. I don’t see the point of increasing risk without seeing an appreciable increase in reward.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Sproles has been horrible running it up the middle. This is pretty much a guaranteed call to get 1-3 yards. Now, I get it. They want the 1-3 yards in order to make some room for the punt. However, it’s timid play calling like this that is one of the problems with Norv.
In these kind of situations I would much prefer to see a quick route to Gates or Nanee. A screen to Sproles, something to spread the defense and provide us an opportunity to actually get the first. Up the middle with Sproles is saying, " Ok, we lost this set of downs, we’re gonna punt ". Thats just unacceptable in my eyes.
Let’s take it one more step and say they JUST want those few yards to make some space. Why Sproles anyways? He might break the hole and make the first? Very unlikely based on his past performance up the middle. At least put Bennett in and get 5 or 6.
There’s nothing wrong with creating space for a punt on 3rd & 27 from your own 4. Doing anything else is foolish.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yup
Not being timid on 3rd & 27 is what gets stupid coaches fired.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Nov 11, 2009 3:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
:-)
any play that relies on Rivers to block will fail. I’m OK with that.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Nov 12, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
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