A Quick Look at the AFC West
I saw a fanpost by jman on the what the AFC West looks like at the quarter pole. Since we are 4 games into the season, it is probably a good time to look at how things are stacking up. jman's analysis was his view of how each team is doing. I thought I would take it from a different angle and get some more "objective" views on how things are going. Once we go through that, I'll give you some thoughts on how things might shake out.
| wins | losses | points for | points against | team overall DVOA rank | team offense DVOA rank | team defense DVOA rank |
|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Denver Broncos | 4 | 0 | 79 | 26 | 7 | 11 | 3 |
| San Diego Chargers | 2 | 2 | 101 | 102 | 23 | 15 | 30 |
| Oakland Raiders | 1 | 3 | 42 | 86 | 29 | 32 | 14 |
| Kansas City Chiefs | 0 | 4 | 64 | 112 | 26 | 26 | 25 |
All right, so first, let's explain quickly some of the numbers, specifically the DVOA numbers. You can click on the headings to see the complete rankings and get details on exactly how they are generated. In summary, the DVOA stands for Defense Adjusted Value Over Average. That is, how much better is this team than the average NFL team if we adjust for who they are playing. Theoretically, this should normalize for an offense that gets to play a really bad defense vs. an offense that plays a really good defense. Now, there is some controversy on how accurately the DVOA numbers represent reality, but they are as good as anything else out there. In addition, since the season is still fairly young, they don't really have the sample size they need to generate really accurate numbers.
After the last game against Pittsburg, none of us are surprised that our defense should rank #30 out of 32 teams. Sounds about right. I think what is a little surprising is that our offense is ranked middle of the pack. We are #9 in points scored, but #15 overall. A good part of this has to do with how the offense is really good in spurts, but then stinks it up. Or more accurate, how our offense sucks the first half, is mediocre the third quarter and then becomes the '94 49ers in the 4th quarter.
Everyone has probably noticed this, but how about the Denver defense? 26 points given up over 4 games? 6.5 points per game average? Now, they have played some bad teams, but they also have played the Cowboys with a decent offense, and the surprisingly good Bengals. This area that was a major weakness and a big reason behind the Bronco collapse last year is surprising good, and may even be a strength of this team. We will get an up close view of this in a few weeks and will be able to tell for ourselves if they are as good as they seem to be at this time.
One of my good friends is a Raider fan and we used to go pretty crazy during Raider week. He is a snapshot of the Raider team. The loss to the Bucs in the SB earlier this decade ripped his heart out and he has been in descent ever since. He barely even wants to talk about his team any more. Looking at them, I think that if they had a decent QB, they could be competitive. JaMarcus Russell has a completion percentage of under 40%. That is ridiculous. They have a good crew of RBs and a good enough OL, there is no reason why their offense should be ranked #32. It''s too bad. Keep this between us, but I secretly wish the Raiders were good and Raider week meant something again.
The Chiefs are still a conundrum to me. They definitely were not as bad as their record was last year. They definitely aren't as bad as their record is this year. But at some point you have to say, as AJ likes to say, "You are what your record says your are." I'm still worried about this team and I feel they could beat just about any team on any given Sunday. They have the offensive weapons. They have some holes on the OL, and their defense is a little weak, but they have just been completely run over so far this year. Is Haley in over his head? Perhaps. Did Belichek not let Pioli take the magic beans with him when he left NE? Probably. The jury is still out, they may still be in recovery mode from ditching their offensive coordinator right after the last preseason game. Offensively they have some weapons and should be serviceable. Defensively, they have a lot of young talent. Like I said, this is a scary team in that they might only win 4 or 5 games, but those 4 or 5 wins might be against playoff teams.
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Denver colapse last year
Great analysis Stephen
I think the thing that happened to Denver last year, could happen to us this year… And it is not all about the Defense.
Yes Denver’s defense collapsed at the end of the season, but I think it was mostly because of time of possession. They had what? 8 different running backs last year? They couldn’t run, but they could throw.
The passing attack won them quite a few games. But the D had to pull the majority of minutes each week. In time the injuries mounted, the extra film gave other teams a better chance to study their tendencies and find the weaknesses.
Does any of this sound familiar?
The Denver D was actually not that bad early last year, and then they added marquee free agents at all three levels for this season.
While I agree with your point about TOP
You’re wrong about Denver’s D being good to start off the 2008 season. Here’s how much they gave up in the first 4 weeks.
Raiders – 14 points
Chargers – 38 points
Saints – 32 points
Chiefs – 33 points
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
ditto
john is right other than w1 and w 5 last year denver had a god-awful d we gave up like 478 something like that
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule
Actually
The Broncos were the best running team in football last year, despite their injuries.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
Also
As has been pointed out before, it’s actually the holdovers on Denver’s defense that’s made them play so great this year. Champ Bailey, Andra Davis, D.J. Williams and Elvis Dumervil are the playmakers there. Although, maybe the other guys are making as many mistakes as the 2008 versions.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
Oh
For some reason, I thought they signed him the year before. I knew he came over as a free agent though. So, now that I’m backtracking, that’s a huge gain for the Denver run defense. That guy has been a stud in Cleveland for a long time.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
no kidding
For some reason, in the back and forth before the Browns game, Cleveland fans weren’t all that disappointed to see him go.
Wow
really? I was dying to get that guy for ILB (Burnett hasn’t been a bad consolation prize). He’s a tackle machine similar to DeMeco Ryans.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Oct 9, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
Q: Are you glad to see Davis gone? Or do you think they made a mistake letting him go?
A: Glad. He was slow, unresponsive some plays and we added talent much better than him. He seemed good for us just because he picked up our sloppy second hits. He is more overrated then you think. Just watch, you will soon be dissapointed.
not lookin good at this point
As the saying goes, defense wins championships. Denver appears to have one, we don’t. This team is looking frightening similar to the chargers at the end of fouts career. Where not only did the defense stink, but the O line didn’t give fouts time to throw either. anyone remember fouts getting his nose broken against the raiders? I do. he kept playing. But, that was his last year here, he retired at the end of the season. He may have decided to retire anyway, we’ll never know. But, it may have been because he didn’t have faith in the O line keeping him standing. How many times hae we seen rivers barely get rid of the ball before getting clobbered? Too many. I hope aj can make some kind of trade to either shore up the O line or D line, preferably both. We have an abundance of wide receivers, perhaps we can dangle a wide out as trade bait. Hopefully the pats can beat denver and we get fired up and beat next week. If not, it could be a dissapointing season.
I am cautiously optimistic
on both lines. I think having Vasquez back will help the OLine and they will develop some cohesiveness with Mooch at center (who knows when Nick will be back, if ever)
I’m hopefull that Travis Johnson gives us some stability on the DL after the bye. We’ve still got issues, but at least with Johnson, we will have some legit talent in there.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 9, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
You don't need a good defense to win a championship
You need a defense that plays well in the playoffs to win a championship. See: 2006 Colts, that was definitely a bottom 5 defense for the entire regular season that year.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
they are an exception
Most Super Bowl winners had a defense ranked in the top 10, but they doesn’t mean defense is more important. Most Super Bowl winners, with a handful of exceptions, have been well balanced with an offense and defense ranked within a few slots of each other.
Championship team defensive DVOA rankings
2008 (Pit): 1
2007 (NYG): 14
2006 (Ind): 25 (I guess they weren’t bottom 5)
2005 (Pit): 3
2004 (NE): 6
2003 (NE): 2
2002 (TB): 1
2001 (NE): 13
2000 (Bal): 2
1999 (StL): 3
1998 (Den): 20
1997 (Den): 8
1996 (GB): 1
1995 (Dal): 13
1994 (SF): 6
While they mostly appear in the top 10, there is more than just 1 exception. But, in the end it really doesn’t matter. If I were to come up with rule for which a team should win a Super Bowl it would be that, “The Most Productive Team Wins Championships”, but that is only true like half the time. The real truth is, you win a championship by playing well enough to make the playoffs and then beating all your playoff opponents (pretty obvious, no?). Teams that are productive have the best chance at accomplishing this and teams that have a good defense have a better chance at being the most productive team (or at least in the top 5). That’s the pecking order. There are no other rules that apply.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
I did some analysis on this over the summer
On MHR, somebody asked the question “does defense win championships,” and somebody else posted the offense and defense rankings for the 39 Super Bowl winners since 1970. I don’t think they were DVOA rankings, which probably would’ve been better, but here’s the exec summary:
As I looked deeper into the rankings of the offense and defense of the Super Bowl winners since 1970, two different categories of teams jumped out at me. I’ll start this long-winded comment by defining them. Regardless of whether the offense or defense is ranked higher, or how high either is ranked:
- Balanced teams have an offense and defensive ranked within six positions of each other.
Lopsided teams have an offense and defense ranked eight or more positions apart.
There are no teams with an offense and defense ranked seven positions apart. That seems appropriate, since #7 is retired.
30 of the 39 Super Bowl winners were balanced.
All but four of these were ranked in the top 5 on at least one side of the ball. All but one of these were ranked in the top 7 on at least one side (the 2007 Giants are the aberration, which also happens to be a common description of Eli in these parts).
Surprisingly, a slight majority of the balanced teams had a higher ranked offense.
If you’re interested, you can read the rest of my comment here: http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/5/21/882101/true-or-false-defense-wins#
direct link
Here’s a direct link to the comment so you don’t have scroll through the whole post (if you care): http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/5/21/882101/true-or-false-defense-wins#16048406
what are the stats for 06'-07' chargers?
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
or should i say
offenise defensive rankings for the 06’, 07’ seasons.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
Defensive rankings, from NFL
2006
YPG: 10th, Y/play: 7th, Scoring: 7th, 3rd%: 13th, FUM 8th(T), Int 17th(T).
Opp.PR: 11th, YPPA: 9th(T).
RushAvg: 7th, 7th Y/G on 3rd fewest attempts/game.
2007
YPG: 14th, Y/play: 13th, Scoring: 5th, 3rd%: 14th, Fum 11th(T), Int 1st.
Opp.PR: 1st, YPPA: 8th.
RushAvg: 17th(T), 16th Y/G on 12th fewest attempts.
My recollection: 2006 run-D was good, but looked better than it was because the offense was so sick (good sick, not like the Browns). 2007 run-D was better than the stats because of the horrid Minnesota game, but still wasn’t great. 2007 opponents PR is largely a factor of turnovers and red-zone D; defense was otherwise mediocre.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 10, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
In ‘06, the secondary was also not very good, to say the least. We had Jammer, but he is way better now than he was then. Cro was a rookie; opposite Jammer was Drayton Florence, who drew enough penalties to make one observe that a yellow flag is a nice accessory to the San Diego uniform. Florence and Marlon McCree cost us our SB ring in characteristic fashion (with some equally characteristic help from Marty and a couple of seriously uncharacteristic drops in Eric Parker’s final appearance as a player). Kiel got busted midseason for shipping Purple Drank, and was probably not a keeper anyway. Though being the most-burned corner in the league isn’t really as bad as it sounds, Jammer was in fact that guy. Our success on defense was half front-seven and half #1 offense.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 10, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Here’s where I don’t like not knowing how to edit my posts. Kiel was DEFINITELY not a keeper anyway, but we didn’t know that then. No offense, rest in peace, thanks for some of the memories.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 10, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
so, we were actually better than both manning brothers in those years, and still came up short, a play here or there.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
You know what they say...
Make the playoffs. Then win 3-4 games.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 11, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Bob Sanders only played in 4 games that season, when the entire defense was built around him. When he played each game of the playoffs, everyone saw what that D was supposed to be.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Oct 9, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the theory
Everyone has injuries. None of the SB Champions defenses had 100% health.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
Yeah
but that’s like if Merriman came back to the Chargers at 100% health for the 2008 playoffs. It would’ve been a different defense.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
I don't buy the "Bob Sanders" theory about the 2006 Colts defense.
They were horrible in the games he DID play in that year as well. What happened, was that they got to play teams in the playoffs who either weren’t good at running the ball (Baltimore, New England, Chicago) or had a running back that was completely worn out from carrying 400+ times in the regular season (Kansas City). Their defense was HORRIBLE in the AFC Championship against the Patriots. They won that game because of some questionable officiating, and a Patriots defense that had the flu the previous week and ran out of gas in the second half.
Greg Maddux for manager.
by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 9, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll caution patience unless we lose to Denver.
If we beat the Broncos, I think we’ll carry the season. The team will have two softer-but-important games and two tougher-but-less-important games to gel and adjust, and we’ll carry the division. If we lose to Denver, we have to find an answer and fast, and even then it may be too late (especially if Denver finds a way to beat New England).
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 9, 2009 12:33 PM PDT reply actions
If we lose to Denver
There are no answers.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
The Denver game is pretty much the season.
We need to win that game at home. If we win, there’s still plenty of work to be done, but we’ll gain some needed confidence and momentum. If we lose, the season is over.
Greg Maddux for manager.
by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 9, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
interesting thing
Denver plays NE this weekend. If they lose there, and we beat them the next week, we could be right bakc to where we were in the preseason. Back when we thought the division was in the bag.
by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 10, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup.
This ain’t the Titanic. That’s in Tennessee! How many people picked us to go from 2-2 to 12-4 or 11-5? This defense has some problems and has to get its act together now, but the raw materials of an average D are more-or-less in place, and an average defense really is good enough when you have the P.R. Machine lighting up the board. Sucks that this is what there is to aspire to (this year), but really good offensive teams can and do win rings on that alone. Just get the D out of letdown mode.
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 10, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
right on
maestro 876
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule
i guess Norv would be correct?
we need balance to win where we want to go. unfortunately, in my opinion, knowing what needs to be done, and getting grown men to excicute it, can be two different things.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
I disagree.
I really like seeing the Raiders suck year after year. Nothing worse than Raider fans gloating after they beat the Chargers. Other than that, nice post!
October 28th couldn't come soon enough.
by JETisKing on Oct 9, 2009 5:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That says it all
Steve Mason from the Mason & Ireland Show on ESPN radio, was on Rome is Burning last week. He told Rome that he has interviewed Jerry Rice several times. A few years ago, he said Jerry told him that Norv Turner is the worst head coach he’s ever had at any level all the way down to pee-wee. I think that says it all.
Where did Norv coach Jerry Rice?
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
Offensive coordinator in Oakland.
"Everything I say, is calculated, appropriated, written and arranged in Feng Shui."
--Gnarls Barkley, "Feng Shui"
Firmly of the "Go Cesaire-- And Take Chambers With You" camp.
Can we PLEASE draft Ali Villanueva of Army this year??? I'd mortgage a kidney for a tackle/wideout hybrid.
by StrangeBroP25 on Oct 10, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup. He succeeded Callahan.
My B.
"Everything I say, is calculated, appropriated, written and arranged in Feng Shui."
--Gnarls Barkley, "Feng Shui"
Firmly of the "Go Cesaire-- And Take Chambers With You" camp.
Can we PLEASE draft Ali Villanueva of Army this year??? I'd mortgage a kidney for a tackle/wideout hybrid.
by StrangeBroP25 on Oct 11, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t take players’ comments about their ex-coaches seriously. It’s over fake praise or a vendetta coming through.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Oct 12, 2009 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions

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