Who would you choose to replace Turner?
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 6:51 PM PDT
183 comments
I think for the first time this is becoming a legitimate discussion. I don't think there's much of a possibility of Turner being fired mid-season. But if the team continues to slide and eventually misses the post-season, then I believe that could cost him his job.
I want to be clear. I don't want to get rid of Turner just for the sake of getting rid of him. I still think he's a good coach for a good team. If the team somehow turned things around and made the playoffs with a decent record, then this discussion is moot because nothing is going to happen. If you're still confident that will happen, then that's great and I salute you.
But I don't think this is a good team anymore. I think we have serious personnel and probably coaching issues as well, and I'm not reasonably confident they'll turn it around like the last couple years. I'd like to discuss possible replacements for Turner, as well as both coordinator positions
If we did miss the playoffs and Turner was fired, I would prefer to start fresh. I'm not impressed with Rivera, and Clarence Shelmon is basically a non-person.
Now, I don't think any of the "big name" candidates would be good choices for this team. Gruden, Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher, etc., I do not want here. A few coaches have gone to a Super Bowl with more than one team, and none have won it with more than one team.
That being said, there are a few guys I think would be good choices for head coach, depending on the direction you'd like to go.
If you want an offensively-minded head coach, I think Bruce Arians, Pittsburgh's OC, would be a good choice. I like what he's done with Roethlisberger and the Steeler receivers, none of whom I think are as good as Philip and the receivers we have here. He's been around Cowher and Tomlin, and probably has a decent idea of how to run a team. He was also Peyton Manning's QB coach when he was a rookie, and probably helped his development along quite well.
In that eventuality, I think John Pagano would make an excellent defensive coordinator. He's been around Phillips, Cottrell, and Rivera, and been with the Chargers for some time. I think that he's probably got a good idea of what works with our personnel and what doesn't. He's also got a good rapport with the players, who reportedly all love him.
If you want a defensively-minded head coach, three possibilities come to mind for me. First there's Greg Manusky. He was here with the Chargers for several years as linebacker coach, and is currently San Francisco's defensive coordinator. Again, he's familiar with our personnel, and has been around a few different 3-4 guys and could probably help put together a good defense. He's also been around Schottenheimer, Nolan, and Singletary, which you'd hope would give him a decent idea of what works and what doesn't as a head coach.
The second possibility is Mike Nolan. I'm not inclined to hold his time at San Francisco against him, considering the personnel he had to work with there and the ownership situation. From what I've been told, his leadership abilities were never an issue and the players all loved him. He also clearly knows how to put a defense together, and his work in Denver has been outstanding. Of course, we should wait and see if it holds up an entire season. But if so, I think he should be given serious consideration.
Third is Leslie Frazier, defensive coordinator with Minnesota. Again, he seems to be putting together a good resume for himself, running their defense from 2007 to present. He's a 4-3 guy, so we'd still need a 3-4 coordinator, but I think Pagano could still fill that role nicely.
If we go with a defensive head coach, I think an interesting idea for offensive coordinator would be Hue Jackson, QB coach in Baltimore. Wonko brought this up, and I think it's a good idea. He's worked with top QBs like Palmer, and has done a good job so far with Flacco. He's also familiar with Cameron's offense, which a good portion of our key players (Rivers, LT, Nick) should remember.
I'll include a poll, but since I can only do one there will be just HC candidates included. Go ahead and vote, and tell us what you think. Feel free to talk about coordinators as well. I'd like to see where people stand. I already said I'm against the "big names", but I know other people aren't.
This FanPost was written by a member of the Bolts From The Blue community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bolts From The Blue editors or SB Nation.
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Mike Shanahan
Before the start of the season Chargers were supposed to get an early run for the afc west title but who would’ve ever guessed Broncos would go 6-0 an have fantastic coaching from them. So If our team was supposed to get an early run can Shanahan be the couch do get them to the big one?
by BFTB_zach on Oct 21, 2009 6:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry.
I don’t follow your logic at all.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe its called a non sequitur
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHATT
I’m sorry, but I don’t see how Shanahan would help this team out….At all.
My faith in the San Diego Chargers will always be at maximum strength for as long as I live. CHARGERS ROLLLL!
by ChargersFanT.I.D. on Oct 22, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Jim Harbaugh!
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 7:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a fan of college coaches.
Very few that I’m aware of have transitioned well.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you heard of a guy named Don Coryell?
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am.
But recently that hasn’t been the rule.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of that has to do with most successful college coaches being successful due to a talent gap between them and their competitors. Jim Harbaugh’s success (whatever amount it is he’s having, I’m not up to date on college football) likely has little to do with him being able to recruit better athletes.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying
he’d be better than other college head coaches?
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In theory. I’m not sure how great of a college coach he is. Anyone care to enlighten me?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know nothing about college football.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh is he the coach of Washington?
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he's Stanford.
Coached at USD for 3 years lead them to a 29-6 Record finishing 1st twice and 2nd once in the Pioneer Football League FCS subdivision
Currently Coaching at Stanford 3rd year 13-18 Record T-7th in his first year and T-6th in his 2nd. Biggest win at stanford was the @USC game.
by Dude52089 on Oct 21, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are talking about the other Harbaugh coach?
if so, i think he has to simmer a bit more. he’s not quite done.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention he has a nice big toy to use in the form of Toby Gerhart
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Belotti!!!!
I am still a fan of Shanahan, I have always thought he was a good coach…He also knows our division quite well.
Lets go Shanahan!! Lets Go!!
If not Shanahan, We need a nasty defensive minded coach, Cowher or Gruden. Hell, even Rivera. We need somebody with passion and a fire to light under this team. We have a mindset right now (even the players and coaches) of, “Well, we are still a good team, but we will fix things a little later, they will work out”.
Not good enough.
We need nasty defense. Perhaps Brian Kelly (head coach) of Cincy in collegiate football would be a great candidate…He always fosters great defense.
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 21, 2009 7:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gruden was an offensive coordinator before he became a head coach.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His teams (in Tampa) always were a nasty defensive unit
How much of that should be attributed to the full Monte Kiffin? I’m not sure…But at the very least Gruden has passion and fire
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Monte Kiffin had EVERYTHING to do with it.
by fwedo on Oct 22, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
Just look at how the D quit after Kiffin announced he was leaving last year
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all good ideas
but i’ll share what little i see. of all the defensive minded coaches i’d like to see an actual 3-4 coach, afterall we’re living with trying to fit a square peg in a round hole now. the other side of that is we convet back to a 4-3 but i don’t see that happening. so let me go outside the box Brian Stewart as the DC. he was the db coach here under marty and wade. also he was quite successful in dallas (and took all of Merriman’s sacks with him) the knock was he wasn’t getting it done. actually Romo was playing for the other teams, late in games, and the D was blamed for the losses. so someone had to get the axe.
as an OC Arians is quite interesting, however i don’t think a Offesine scheme change is in order. so why use the OC we have in the form of either Rob Chudzinski, or John Ramsdell. Chud was the OC in Cleveland adn he was under marty, and Cam. he knows the system we are in now and showed how to exploit a defense with a good TE. the knock against him, he produced 1 playoff appearence, and suffered from bad QB’s. Ramsdell was the QB coach in with rams, we have the players to make San Diego the second coming, of the “Greatest show on turf”
as a HC my choice would be Brian Billick. he understands the importance of defense, and would have the tools to on offense he never had in baltimore.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Brian Billick’s head coaching success was largely (entirely?) on the back of Rex Ryan’s defense.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Mike Nolan before him
And Marvin Lewis before him.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
go down a little further i covered that.
Nolan was the only DC, Billick won a SB with.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was Billick’s involvement with the defense? Anyone know this? He was always tagged as an offensive genius and that was the unit that always struggled on his Ravens teams.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
covered that to.
the ravens could never seem to get the personel to pan out. ergo, he leaned on his D, heavly. but it still stands, as HC he made desicions that won a champoinship. here in SD, the personel to be succesful on offnse is in place.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His involvement with the defense was that he “leaned on” them? That inspires little confidence.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he still won a championship as HC.
that’s why i suggested if he came in as HC, there should be an play calling OC.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 22, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My impression of him is similar to that of Trent Dilfer in that he was along for the ride and managed not to screw it up.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to the book I read on that Ravens team
The defense was essentially run by Ray Lewis. The DC would come up with his own gameplan first, then he’d have a meeting with Ray and it would be adjusted or completely scrapped. That could certainly be why they’re remained so consistent on that side of the ball.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 2:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Ray Lewis should be our defensive coordinator.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take him
He could be the DC/Team Pastor
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As soon as he retires
hire that man. I don’t care what position you give him. Just hire him.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like he’s going to end up being a great college FB coach one day.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would actually be for that...
Having our D-Coordinator on the field playing…Awesome!
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peyton Manning is basically an on-field OC…..which I think we should do with Philip.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eventually I agree.
I think Rivers has the potential to be better than Manning at it, because I think Philip respects the running game and is less arrogant than Manning. Peyton I think gets a bit too arrogant for his own good, and throws too much. Classic example to me is 3rd and 2 in the playoffs last year. Empty backfield? Seriously? That smacks of hubris to me.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 23, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I think of it as short memory rather than ego. When the run is working, he calls it a bunch. When it gets stopped and puts him in a 3rd and long position, he loses trust in it until the next series.
BTW, I just read a story about Manning’s 2008 season (and specifically what he went through with his knee). That dude is ridiculously tough. RIDICULOUSLY tough. I would’ve taken the season off and he won the freaking MVP.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Marvin Lewis was the DC that year.
Nolan took over for him after the 2001 season when Lewis went to Washington. Nolan was tyhe WR coach for the Ravens in 2001. Before that he was the DC for the New York Jets for 1 year. Before that he was the DC for the Washington Redskins under Norv Turner. Or wiki is lying to me.
Oh and for those Oregon fans, his first coaching job was a graduate assistant at Oregon in 1981.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 22, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think your right wonko
which would put Nolan as less of a candidate in my book. i forgot to cross check Lewis. Billick won that SB with Lewis in 2000
see there’s a reason why i stick to the Chargers when it comes to who played for who, and when. i need sleep, got to many stats in my head….
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 22, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree!
D-fense won Bmores championship that year not offense. i mean Ray Lewis got the super bowl MVP!
by 40.OZ on Oct 22, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A defensive back actually won MVP...
Dexter Jackson if my memory serves me correct
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Super Bowl MVP , that is
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dexter Jackson won TB’s SB MVP. Ray Lewis won his. I remember because it was the first time ever that the SB MVP wasn’t invited to Disneyworld (Disney was scared of his murder trial the year before). Trent Dilfer went instead.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you guys should get over Cowher, Shanahan, or Holmgren.
These guys are going to want to run the entire show. AJ isn’t going anywhere.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For the moment, I'm going with Mike Nolan.
Unless his defense completely falls apart in Denver. I reserve the right to change my opinion in that case.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 7:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nolan would be a good replacement as HC. i only hold my thoughts of brining in the guy, and be left wondering who’s going to call the defensive plays. the idea is sound, our defense is mess. but i can see him being pulled away from the rest of the team to shore up the D. and that could set things in the wrong direction.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
It would drive the MHR guys crazy to steal their DC, there has to be bonus points for that.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Oct 21, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
true
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not really worried about that
I’m pretty sure a good OL coach and a monkey with a typewriter could make the offense work. It seems better to make sure the defense works and let PR keep throwing bombs to VJ and 1st downs to 85.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
Philip isn’t Peyton Manning yet, but he’s getting there.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that why like Chud as the OC
he already knows the system. most importantly i think he would give PR more more passing routes underneath, to help the O-line kill the blitz’s.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on Chud.
The words “Cleveland Offensive Coordinator” don’t instill confidence.
Still, he was the OC when they actually had success on offense in 2007. 2008 you could blame on Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn sucking, and Romeo Crennel’s ineptitude.
I wonder if they would consider him for the head coaching position. He is assistant head coach, after all.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why i wouldn't put him up for HC.
Brian has been a successful OC and HC, Chud doesn’t have the crap here, that he had in cleveland. he also would have the support of his HC in Billick.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Rivers never becomes like Peyton...
Then we would all have to bare through the endless audible calls that singlehandedly add an hour to everygame…High tempo!
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t add time to the game. The play-clock is the same for everyone. It just seems slower. In reality, it’s more time at the line and less in the huddle.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We both know what I mean...He never shuts the hell up at the line of scrimmage...
Makes me wonder…Is he lonely and looking for a nice conversation?
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 23, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not just bring him in as a much better paid DC,in the off season,and look for a better HC who can work well with him and AJ?
Chance favors the prepared mind.......
by Gorditoe1 on Oct 22, 2009 3:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he's under contract in Denver.
You can only hire away someone’s assistants if you promote them.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've thought about this a bit more
and I think maybe I prefer Greg Manusky over Nolan. Manusky is a fresh face, and he’s familiar with our personnel. I think he could be a successful head coach with us.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It lacks the bonus of ripping a great coordinator away from a division rival, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
would he wear a suit?
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
like his daddy once did......
Chance favors the prepared mind.......
by Gorditoe1 on Oct 22, 2009 3:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He damn well better.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Billick in the only SB winning coach, that wouldn’t want to control everything, and or call the plays on Offense.
in 144 games, for 9 seasons as the ravens HC, he’s 80-64. which puts him 16 games over .500. Nolan, in 55 games for 3 and a half seasons as the 49er’s HC, is 18-37, which puts him at, minus 19 games over .500.
Billick has had 4 playoff seasons, Nolan has never had a winning season.
now i consider, Nolan didn’t have much to work with, and went through what, 3, 4 OC’s with his young QB? (one being Norv) but as the HC getting the most from your personell falls in your lap. comes with the job. Billick used his Defense as his Offense, even though he was the OC for the Vikings. he never could find a QB even close to Flacco. so he leaned on his Dominant D, for a bit longer than he should. then gambled the farm on McNair, to turn things around. and when it didn’t pan out that was that.
Here, he’s PR and recieving core. he’s also got LT. or D is just poorly coached and disorganized. being he picked Nolan as DC, whom he won his only SB with. i would also think he knows what a defense should look a play like. as well as what would be a good DC.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 9:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Our defense isn't just poorly coached and disorganized.
They need at least 5 new starters. Perhaps more.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a fair point about Nolan's record, though.
If they were to select him, they’d have to be satisfied that he wasn’t entirely at fault for the situation in SF, and that he’s grown as a coach since then.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
do re really wnat to take that gamble again?
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the concern.
I’m totally fine with going with someone else. I also like Greg Manusky and Arians. Frazier interests me as well.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't want one of those big name retreads.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turner had a much larger track record of failure than Nolan
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping that Nolan would be similar to Bill Belichick.
Sucked in Cleveland, learned some things, and got much better.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so would i. i can see where your coming from.
but the point of this discussion is how to improve the HC. and Nolan has the same track record as our current HC. i just see it as going down the same road. however, i’ve never heard it mentioned, to my knowledge, that Nolan was terrible HC. not from players, not the organization, not even in the media. he just wasn’t getting the job done, and the axe had to fall somewhere.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Nolan is a completely different personality than Turner
so despite the record, he’s bringing a different set of things to the table.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
but like turner, some of those “things” he brings, is a losing record. but in the grand scheme of things i could see Nolan here. probably at the end of the 2010 season.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we have to see how the season shakes out.
If we make the playoffs, then Turner is getting an extension and there won’t be any new coach for a while.
If we don’t and Turner is let go, we’ll need a new coach immediately. So there won’t be any new coach after the 2010 season.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
like you said we'll see
but i don’t think he gets an extention without a SB trophy. and even if he dosen’t make the playoffs, he still comes back next year.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt they’ll keep him as a lameduck (his contract is up after next season, right?) and the only way he’s getting extended is if he makes the playoffs.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
They don’t keep lame ducks. If he stays, he gets an extension. He gets the extension if he makes the playoffs. That’s AJ and Dean’s definition of success in the regular season.
No one gets an extension based on whether or not they win a Super Bowl. Too many uncontrollable variables.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think if he fails to make the playoffs
then that will be the last straw.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m convinced that his record as a head coach tells us nothing more than that he had absolutely nothing to work with.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so with that logic his record here means what?
look, between you and John you spend a lot of time pulling out stats, to back up your opinions. and now, that i pull out the numbers, you want to completly disreguard them, because it’s convinient for you? hey, you like Norv, fine. you think he’s a good coach,excellent.
but what does that about Nolan? Belichick? and specifically Billick? do we right him off, because he had struggles with the offense in baltimore? because he had nothing to do with the Defense, beside picking the Defensive staff. what defines a Good HC in your book? is it his record? what he had to work with? how many playoff appearences? SuperBowl trophies? what?
at what po
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 22, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers without context are essentially meaningless. You can’t just say, “hey I found some stats that support my opinion if you ignore the context.”
Nolan has had success as a defensive coordinator. As a head coach, he didn’t have success, but the evidence available to us suggests that it wasn’t because he’s incapable. Obviously, I think you want results, but results without looking at the process doesn’t tell you much. That’s all.
Just to be clear, I’m not writing off Billick. I’m uncertain about him. He’s an offensive coordinator that became a head coach of a team that never had success on offense, but was a defensive juggernaut. I’m curious what hand he had in that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now where getting somewhere.
again i coverd that. he was the HC, and as far as i can tell the HC picks his coaching staff. Nolan and Ryan, and Lewis were on his staff, he picked. it’s as simple as that. he was a successful OC with the VIkings, but his woes in Baltimore, were drafting heavy on defense and with free agents. the talent was never there on offense, so he leaned on his Defense, heavaly, for far to long. that is looking at his record within context.
my chime for Billick is he was successful HC, that has actually won SB as a HC. and the stats back him and “winning” coach. reguardless of “how” he got it, he was the HNIC in baltimore, just Like Norv is here. it’s BIllick’s decisions on player personell, and the coaching staff.
and he still managed to get a better winnig record than Norv, in less time. you are praised for the wins, and get the axe for the losses.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 22, 2009 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the concept of crediting guys for their wins and losses, but when making a hiring decision it seems like we ought to go more in-depth than that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll play devils advocate
and remind everyone that Belicheck did take the Browns to the playoffs once. He then had a bad followup season and was fired just as the team decided it had enough of Cleveland.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 22, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
and I think I’ve decided that I’d rather have a fresh face.
I’m vacillating a lot. I’m entitled, it’s early, this season still has some life to it.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
but you made the comment a while back, in another thread, this is “virtually” the same D. most of the guys on this squad ,were coached by wade. and were very productive under his tenure. some guys have moved on, and the argument can be made they took adavntage of a soft schedule. the other side is they’ve gotten older. and and upgrades have been neglected.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 9:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
contiued...
but at this point we are being coached by a 4-3 DC. and inspite of the injuries, this squad has still enough talent to get better with time.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
I did say that. And I was wrong. It’s not virtually the same squad. They’ve got 9 of 22 starters from 2006, and only 4 on defense. From 2007, they’ve got 6 of the same starters on defense.
That’s not the same team. It’s a worse team now, and in hindsight those squads were more lucky than good.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I could not agree more.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
finally you see the ligtht.
Now, how do you SEE AJ picks? the argument he has been made he’s a good talent evaluator. but the coaching, made them better than thery actually were. and now we are exposed… we are what we are.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not in agreement at all with the suggestion that the coaching made them better than they were. I’m of the opinion that they looked better than they were because of a soft schedule and a handful of guys having unpredictable career years at the same time.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this analysis.
And 2007’s defense was based a lot on luck—clutch turnovers that you can’t depend on getting every time.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 21, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in 2006
meant playing the NFC West and getting some good bounces in some of those comeback victories. And Merriman was roidin’.
What’s funny is that the NFC West still sucks and we get to play them again next year. Hooray! Hopefully 4 free wins to go with our 4 free ones in the AFC West. And the Colts and Titans always like to give us victories right?
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 22, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They do.
Though Arizona could be difficult, as could be San Francisco in the NFC West.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a tallest midget division
They are currently the only division that doesn’t have a team in the top 10 in DVOA (Ari is closest at 13th). The AFC West and NFC West are the only division without 2 teams in the top 15 in DVOA (Denver and Ari are the only ones in the to 15, Seattle is 17th and SD is 24th). It may be tougher than it’s been, but basically the Chargers will have 10 games next year against teams from the two weakest divisions, plus games against the Titans, Colts, Jags and Texans.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 23, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
tha't been my stance for some time now.
either Norv is a good coach or he isn’t. Marty was a good coach, or he wasn’t. AJ is a good talent evaluator, or her isn’t.
if Aj is as good at finding talent, then both coaches benefited from his picks, and both coaches handled them poorly. if the players sucked, then it has been the coaching that has gotten both men to the playoffs. you can’t have it both ways. the record of this team, going back to 04’, has been to playoffs, 4 times in 5 years. any coach will tell you, you have to have a little luck, and a “favorable” schedule helps. but after two HC, three DC, and two OC, and numerous player shufflng. and this team is worse than 07’?
i don’t claim to be a smart man, but i don’t have to be an engineer to see, the numbers don’t add up.
The peanut gallery has spoken!!!
by gatesoftds on Oct 22, 2009 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like bill cowher for the win
I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies
and hypothesis can't define how I be droppin these
mockeries, lyrically perform armed robbery
Flee with the lottery, possibly they spotted me
Battle-scarred shogun, explosion when my pen hits
tremendous, ultra-violet shine blind forensics
by tonik on Oct 22, 2009 4:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I never should have included him on the poll
Nor should I have put Shanahan, Holmgren, or Gruden as none are realistic possibilities.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its ok.
although not a real possibility, i think it’s what people “want”, not what we can actually get.
I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies
and hypothesis can't define how I be droppin these
mockeries, lyrically perform armed robbery
Flee with the lottery, possibly they spotted me
Battle-scarred shogun, explosion when my pen hits
tremendous, ultra-violet shine blind forensics
by tonik on Oct 22, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we’re doing that, I’m changing my vote to Buddy Ryan.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly....
I’ll take Bill Belichick.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good one.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad that guy's a cheating scumbag
I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies
and hypothesis can't define how I be droppin these
mockeries, lyrically perform armed robbery
Flee with the lottery, possibly they spotted me
Battle-scarred shogun, explosion when my pen hits
tremendous, ultra-violet shine blind forensics
by tonik on Oct 22, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What! You are hereby expelled from the confines of BFTB!!!!
Wanting Belichick!
Haha nice one man, I had not yet heard the “chick” reference in regards to his name
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at John's comment
Belichick
Pretty sure that is what CaDuck is referring to.
by Dude52089 on Oct 22, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s how the man’s name is spelled.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i always thought
Belicheck but shows how much i care about the New England Patriots, I normally refer to him as Belicheat. shows my knowledge
by Dude52089 on Oct 22, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha! Same here...
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing for a while
I realized the real spelling several months ago.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whew...This makes me feel less incredibly stupid!
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 23, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's premature, but..
How about Jeff Fisher? I know he’s still currently the coach of the Titans, but if their season continues as it started, I think there is a legitimate chance he will be fired. If that happens, I would love to have Fisher coach the Chargers… And it wouldn’t bother me if he wore Raiders or Broncos jerseys during charity events to raise money for the needy.
by garrett1230 on Oct 22, 2009 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Who's responsible for Denver's miraculous defensive turn around?
Is it Nolan or the free agency moves they made (that we did not, e.g. safety)? I remember Bowlen questioning his own draft and why the defense had not been addressed more significantly. Not such an issue now.
And who’s responsible for the slow but steady decline of our defense? Was AJ outflanked, Rivera outclassed, or our players just outmanned?
Jamal, Bingham being injured was huge. Dare we consider Olshansky leaving? Cesaire being injured all camp. Merriman fading into irrelevancy. Has our D steadily declined since Norv came to town?
Josh McDaniels & staff put on an absolute clinic for Norv and Rivera. They got schooled. Second half defensive adjustments were impressive: when your center is clearly out classed, and the RB’s are doing a crappy job picking up blitzers, just keep sending blitzers thru the A hole. LT blocking looked like Cromartie tackling. Players are generally good about saying they got out played when they did. I’d like to hear Norv say how totally, utterly he got out coached in that game. First move on the path to a solution is recognizing the problem.
by Robo65 on Oct 22, 2009 8:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it Nolan or the free agency moves they made (that we did not, e.g. safety)?
It’s both. The free agency moves are working because Nolan’s system is fantastic
Jamal, Bingham being injured was huge. Dare we consider Olshansky leaving? Cesaire being injured all camp. Merriman fading into irrelevancy. Has our D steadily declined since Norv came to town?
It has, but to blame Norv for that would be blaming him for the injuries to Merriman and Williams. If Fields or Dumervil got hurt and were out for the season, the Broncos would struggle as well. Now imagine one is out and the other is still rehabbing and therefore ineffective, what would they do? Dumervil accounts for HALF of Denver’s sacks and Fields is a big reason why the blitzes are working.
For the record, the defense during Norv’s first year was a little better than the defense of the 14-2 team. So the only time when “Norv’s” defense didn’t perform as well as Marty’s is when either the star pass-rusher was injured or the star nose tackle was injured.
I actually think Norv did a good coaching job on Monday. The offense was good and the defense was better than it’s been. He can’t magically turn the defense into Denver’s. With the injuries it’s taken, our defense cannot compare to Denver’s in terms of talent. Norv had both sides of the ball playing as good as they’ve played all season, and that’s really all you can ask for. I hate to use it as some semi-excuse, but 8-8 and 2-3 have just as much to do with injuries than they do Norv’s coaching (if not more).
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that injuries have played a significant role
this year and last year.
But I’m pretty fed up with Rivera. He hasn’t done any of the things he said he was going to. There’s absolutely nothing creative happening with the defense. No attempts to disguise what we’re doing, no stunts, no attempt to confuse the opposing offensive line. When we blitz, we’re going straight ahead.
There’s the point that it’s hard to rush the passer when you can’t stop the run. Fine. But against Denver we largely stopped it and had them in obvious passing downs. And there was still nothing happening. When they blitzed, they rushed straight ahead. Merriman was constantly being sent one-on-one with Ryan Clady, who stonewalled him. On the flip side, Dumervil was rushing against tight ends and running backs. There was no attempt to exploit favorable match-ups, move guys around pre-snap, or confuse the opposing offense.
This isn’t new. It’s what was done during the pre-season, when the excuse was that we didn’t want to show anything. It was done against Oakland, when the excuse was we didn’t have to do it because Russel was such a bad quarterback.
I’m tired of it. I’m not happy with Rivera, and I want someone who actually knows how to run a 3-4 defense and knows how to use this personnel. I’m convinced that Rivera’s success in Chicago was a result of having multiple dominant players at DT, LB, and in the secondary, and had little or nothing to do with his scheme. Without those players, he’s lost. Just like our defense.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I agree with that whole-heartedly. Rec’d.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
it killed me to see all the pass rush not working. it wasn’t creative at ALL. i remembered thinking to myself preseason “i hate the pass rush, but i’m SURE he’s saving all his creative blitzes for the tough teams”….and i was moded. nothing happened. what happened to that 3 headed monster we were supposed to see.
I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies
and hypothesis can't define how I be droppin these
mockeries, lyrically perform armed robbery
Flee with the lottery, possibly they spotted me
Battle-scarred shogun, explosion when my pen hits
tremendous, ultra-violet shine blind forensics
by tonik on Oct 22, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
I hate to agree with you because I had high hopes for Rivera, but I just haven’t seen anything from him to suggest that you’re wrong.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did too.
Last year after they promoted him, I predicted they’d run the table and finish 11-5.
It’s just so frustrating. And now it seems like he’s grasping at straws for solutions.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone think the Packers' front seven is tons better than ours?
It’s their first year running a 3-4, yet they’re ranked about 20 spots ahead of us in total defense DVOA.
But they’ve got Dom Capers, who’s a pretty good DC. I look at their defense, and I see what we thought ours would look like—constant movement, blitzing, and stunting. And they’re bringing pressure and playing good defense.
Frustrating, to say the least. We need a new DC absolutely. If you won’t promote Pagano, at least bring back Phillips.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Capers. He’s like LeBeau. You can really throw any talent at him, and within a few weeks he’s going to be running one of the most active and confusing defenses in the league. I’m confident the Chargers would be much better with him calling the plays this season.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I just don’t like Rivera. Which is too bad, because we had shots at Nolan and Capers this off-season. Now both are unavailable unless you want to make the HC.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Rivera deserved his shot. The defense did improve a little after he took it over last season.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget about it - None of them would take the job
The question is not "Who should we get?" the question is "Who would work with AJ & Dean?"
Maybe we are not in a situation quite as irrational as the one in Oakland, but our ownership and GM are way too dysfunctional for any top notch coach.
The team would have the best chance trying to fix AJ & Norv Turner. As far as I can tell they get along alright. There as problems for sure, let’s fix those problems instead of re-building from scratch.
If you want a coach to have success, then the players need to know that the Coach’s position is secure. If you consider the coaching greats most had very long tenures. Continuity is a key element of HC success.
by Trendsearcher on Oct 22, 2009 9:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Continuity is a key element
once you get the right guy. I hoped that Turner was the right guy, but I’m no longer convinced of that. That’s why I think if we miss the playoffs it’s time to clean house and start fresh.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just remember those revolving door years after Coryell
Does anybody else remember Tom Bass? What about Dan Henning?
Give me more of a Norv Turner struggling to re-invent himself, over 4 different coaches in 5 years.
by Trendsearcher on Oct 22, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Henning is still hanging around
He’s running the wildcat down there in Miami.
You forgot Al Saunders. BTW, I think he’s not doing anything these days. Maybe they can bring him as OC in if they get a defensive minded DC.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 23, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al Saunders’ offense would look mighty good with Rivers running it.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 23, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
The last I saw it (well, before the Redskins disaster) it seemed mainly about Priest Holmes running the ball a lot. I’m not sure how that fits, but maybe he’d adapt to his personnel and refer to being Coryell-like.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 23, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as i recall
there was really bad blood between Saunders and Spano’s Sr. otherwise, il be all for Saunders being HC
by $#%@ eli and his daddy on Nov 3, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Nolan, with Charlie Weis as OC
Nolan can focus on defense. Weis is back to doing what he does best. And neither guy will butt heads with AJ.
Cowher and Shanahan will never work with AJ. I hate Gruden’s dink-dunk offense.
by sirbud on Oct 22, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Weis is signed through 2015 at about $5 million per.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ND will lose once more this year
and the school will buyout his contract. It’s BCS or bust for Weis this year, and a three loss team won’t make it.
He isn’t a very good HC, but I think he’s still a good, possibly great, OC. SD would be an attractive place for him to rebuild his reputation.
by sirbud on Oct 22, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll be surprised if they buy him out. He’s finally showing progress.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In losing weight?
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 22, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
I think the remainder of their schedule is ridiculously easy.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Holmgren
Motivational coach which Rivers would see no end to how high he could excel, with Wade Phillips as DC.
by Harsh_619 on Oct 22, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A Few Options
Can’t think of any choices that I would be super pumped about, but here are a couple of other guys that would be worth thinking about:
Russ Grimm – He has been a winner almost everywhere he has been and I feel confident he would get the O line in order. I think he is ready to be a head coach.
Bob Stoops – I don’t think we could afford him or that he would leave OK, but everywhere he coaches the D plays great.
Hue Jackson – An offensive coach, but I think that he is another assistant who has proven that he is ready to be a Head Coach.
by JeromeB on Oct 22, 2009 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hue Jackson is a QB coach
and I think would be a great choice for offensive coordinator. I think this time around I’d rather have a defensive guy at head coach.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A defensive coach would be my preference
as well, that was my point in mentioning the Jackson was from the offensive side of the ball (somewhat of a negative). But there are not a lot of Defensive coaches that I would be that excited about getting.
Maybe if OK loses a few more games this year Stoops would be a possibility but I doubt it.
by JeromeB on Oct 22, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
And I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have a offensive head coach. Coughlin and Reid are both offensive guys, but manage to have great defenses year in and out. But there’s a couple guys I like that are DCs, and I think that Jackson would be a great choice for offensive coordinator.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson has been mentioned as a future HC candidate
There is sort of a mini trend to promote guys to HC that were never coordinators (Like Morris in TB, Singletary in SF or Caldwell in Indy, plus Tomlin and McDaniels and Mangini all spent minimal time as OC/DC and McCarthy never really ran a good offense as an OC, but makes for a decent HC in GB).
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 23, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted 'other'
and felt obligated to explain … one word: Marty.
Plus when Wade gets axed at the end of the season in Big D, bring him back for an encore at DC. This team is missing the fire it had since Norv took over … it doesn’t have that ’I’m going to kick your ass’ attitude anymore.
Second choice: Gruden. I’m sure he’d want to stick it to Al Davis twice a year.
by Lancers46 on Oct 22, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Marty is never coming back here
and I strongly suspect he’s never going to coach again.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 22, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see him in Oakland.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll throw out another name
… which will probably get me shot and disbarred from BFTB.
He’s had head-coaching experience…
He’s even had head-coaching success…
He wouldn’t command the autonomy that the other retreads would…
He’s smart and still close to the game.
Ladies and gentleman, give it up for…
Steve Mariucchi!!
Okay, maybe I’m crazy, but I’ve always loved his energy, passion and football smarts.
Hey, anyone who can tolerate Deion week in and week out can still command the respect of today’s over-priced and over-hyped players.
by Andy (allfield) on Oct 22, 2009 2:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Really? That’s certainly an interesting name…
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Mooch as an analyst.
And he had pretty good success in San Francisco. Not sure what to say about his time in Detroit.
He’s a retread, which I’m against, but he’s also had success.
I’d still prefer someone else, though.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted Mooch for a long time, but he’s similar to Norv in that he’s a player-friendly coach with an offensive mindset. That’d be my only reason for passing him over.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's fine with me.
Like I said, I’m against retreads in general.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Whitehurst
I am sure he’d take the job. He’d lick AJs boots to a mirror finish.
The team likes him. Heck Charlie even knows how to hold a clip board. He’d be perfect!
by Trendsearcher on Oct 22, 2009 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't tease me.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can hold a clipboard
Like a spaghetti strainer can hold water. I don’t know what game footage you’re watching.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 23, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I ay bring in Holmgren as HC,then bring in Marvin Lewis as DC,then bring in me as OC...
I would make a play book that would make all of us at BFTB look like offensive gurus in the making…huh…If you want me to run a play just text me and it’s done….now that’s accountability!!!
Chance favors the prepared mind.......
by Gorditoe1 on Oct 22, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats it...Dan Fouts as head coach!
Why not? Other than the fact that he has never coached on any level…But who needs that!
A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.
Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!
by CaDuck on Oct 22, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
We are relegated to that inexperienced / underperforming HC market anyway. Why not just select some figure head?
How about Arnold Schwarzenegger? Depending on how they treat his first term, he maybe looking for a job in 2010.
And just this week he sealed the deal that will allow City of Industry to move the Chargers to LA. Arnold becoming HC in 2010could be his kickback err… reward.
by Trendsearcher on Oct 23, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoever wins the UFL
should coach the chargers. c’mon teddy cottrell!
by BORTZ on Oct 22, 2009 7:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I just threw up.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IN YOUR MOUTH? GROSS
Chance favors the prepared mind.......
by Gorditoe1 on Oct 24, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've thought about this
and I really think we should seriously consider Greg Manusky. He studied under Wade and Nolan, and I think he could help design a really good defensive system.
Moreover, I think he’s ready for a head coaching job. He’s been an assistant for a while, and has served under Marty, Nolan, and Singletary. I think he’d bring a fresh energy to the team, and be someone the team would respect.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I also wanted to mention
that the Chargers FO seems to think very highly of him. When Wade left to be the Cowboys’ HC, he wanted to take Greg with him to be his defensive coordinator, but the Chargers wanted to keep him.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 22, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I very nearly voted for Manusky, but went with Nolan instead. Greg would be a good consolation prize.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 23, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a kind of guy
who emphasizes front 7 play as the most important aspect of the defense. I listened to an interview he gave to an SF radio station, and he sounds like a confident, smart guy who would make a good head coach.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 23, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who emphasizes front 7 play as the most important aspect of the defense.
This I like. Pittsburgh was pulling DBs off the couch when they played us last year in the regular season and still held the Bolts offense to just 10 points. If you have that front seven, the back end can be a little weak.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Oct 23, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that front seven + Polamalu.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 23, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point Taken
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Oct 24, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty much Wade Phillips's philosophy as well.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 23, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that we'd ever know
Since Marty didn’t let him talk to the media.
Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.
by Wonko on Oct 23, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I was just going off the product he actually put on the field.
We're boned.
by maestro876 on Oct 24, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hated that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 25, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dungy, with Wade back as DC. I have to think on the OC for awhile. Maybe Martz.
I like Jim Harbaugh a lot as well, but would prefer he have a little more NFL experience before being thrown into the HC role.
If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!!
Robert Hunter
by Buck Melanoma on Oct 25, 2009 9:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WHY I LIKE GRUDEN OVER COWHER
I’m not surprised most fans want a proven coach over an untried one. You make a compelling case for Arians or Nolan and I don’t disagree with your logic. Your knowledge of current co-ordinators far surpasses my knowledge and i salute you for it.
That said, I think the most important thing whenever any team, in any sport for that matter, hires a new coach is to first know the personality and capabilities of it’s players and what the upside is within three years. One year for any coach, except Mangini who is completely awful, is too soon to pass judgment. Beyond three assumes too many factors that are so far in the future; free agency, CBA, economy, draft position, hits and misses, etc.
With that in mind, next year, 2011 (labor issues aside) and 2012 we know one thing about the san diego chargers; phillip rivers will be their QB and their franchise. getting him to the next level and continuing to stock this team with offensive talent is fundamental. for that reason alone, i strongly prefer an offensive minded coach over a defensive one. rivers has been in the league long enough, and progressed far enough that a rookie or relatively inexperienced coach might work, but is taking a risk. of all the coaches who are currently available for next year, JON GRUDEN has i think the best track record as an offensive oriented coach and the one best able to take this team as it is to that next level.
BILL COWHER would have made sense when they hired norv, given his run first, conservative/conventional style of play that worked so well with jerome bettis and the ground oriented steelers with LT and michael turner. the chargers are no longer that type of team and to go in that direction i think would be a mistake.
MIKE SHANAHAN interests me but i think GRUDEN has the perfect personality for a team that has how shall i put it, become a little soft, or at the very least not as nasty and physical that they used to be under marty. gruden’s in your face style might rub some players the wrong way but is much of what this team, still a very talented and capable team, if they continue to draft and sign/trade well, is currently lacking.
my hunch, and this is nothing more than a hunch, is that living in sunny san diego would suit him and his family just fine and phillip rivers would give him the best QB he ever had (gannon too old, too many bucs qb’s) and the opportunity to build something lasting that TB didn’t do.
by SoCalCMH on Oct 26, 2009 12:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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