Bolts & Dolts: Broncos @ Chargers

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 4:50 AM PDT in Bolts & Dolts Comment 112 comments

So I've given myself 24 hours to get over the emotions of this game, and now I'm ready bestow BFTB awards to the best and worst San Diego Chargers players of the week.

What's funny to me, about this game, is that it was the complete opposite of what we've become used to as Chargers fans. The team came out fast, clearly winning the first-half, and then were outdone in the second half as the Broncos coaches made better adjustments. An uncharacteristic game for the Bolts, but with similar results (a close loss).

The Bolts and Dolts are listed after the jump, along with their stats. Keep in mind that any players left off this list had a good game, it just wasn't a great game or a bad game.

Bolts

Offense

Philip Rivers - 20/33, 274 yds, 1 TD. Stats-wise, Philip was outdone by Kyle Orton. Also, the majority of Phil's success came in the first half. However, he spent the second half running away from pass-rushers and still managed to not make any bad throws. In short, Philip did everything we could've asked for considering what he was facing.

Offensive Playcall - 20 first downs, 311 total yds. I thought the offensive calls in the first half were brilliant. The screen to Antonio Gates and the double-screen to Mike Tolbert certainly helped keep the defense on their toes. The Chargers offense was every bit as good as the Broncos' on this day, with more first downs, about the same amount of yards and an equal time of possession. However, the Chargers' offense only put up 16 points to Denver's 20 and the Chargers went 1-for-2 in the red zone (in terms of TDs) to the Broncos' 2-for-4 success rate.

Defense

Kevin Ellison - 7 tackles. Welcome to the big-time, kid! Ellison seemed to take Clinton Hart's place in the defense, on the field for the majority of the snaps, and had great success. Not only did he lead the team in tackles, but he did a pretty good job defending Tony Sheffler most of the night.

Antonio Cromartie - 3 tackles, 2 defended passes. Cromartie first big game of the season, in my opinion. He spent less time going for picks and more time playing the receiver. Antonio covered Eddie Royal most of the night, and Royal ended with 0 catches after being thrown to 4 times. Cro had some trouble on special teams coverage, but he didn't belong out there anyways.

Larry English - 4 tackles, 1 sack. English didn't necessarily have a great game, but in his 5th game of his career he looks like the best pass rusher on the team.

Dolts

Offense

Offensive Line - 5 sacks allowed. The offensive line actually didn't play horrible, they just really miss Nick Hardwick. The line's weakness now is identifying and picking up blitzers. The Chargers ran for 3.5 yards per carry (higher than Denver's 3.1 YPC), but couldn't handle the heavy blitzing packages that Mike Nolan was throwing at them. In the end, the Broncos got a sack from an Inside Linebacker and a Cornerback in addition to Elvis Dumervil (2) and Darrell Reid.

Defense

Stephen Cooper - 4 tackles. I know, he was playing with an injury that probably should've kept him out, but Cooper was exploited by Denver's offense. They ran at him, threw at him and generally directed their offense towards him. I saw a play where Shaun Phillips slid over and played ILB with Cooper coming off the field and it didn't work much better. I really hope Cooper and Kevin Burnett can get healthy and stay healthy, because the coverage skills of the Chargers backup ILBs is a real weakness.

Pass Rush - 1 sack. Apart from English's sack, which was a second-effort play that was made because Orton held onto the ball too long, the pass rush was completely and totally non-existent. I can't blame Rivera, because he called his share of blitzes. I think the blame lies firmly on the defensive line, weakened by injuries, that cannot keep the blitzing LBs clean. Sadly, Chargers fans, I don't know if it's going to get any better.

Eric Weddle - 5 tackles. Well, we now have our reason why Weddle can never ever play the SS position: He cannot cover TEs. It was a problem last year (the name Dante Rosario sticks out) that was blamed on Hart (who was just as bad), but Weddle deserves some of the blame. Every time the Chargers lined Weddle up on Sheffler, the Broncos noticed it and attacked it. It's Rivera's job to make sure that Weddle one-on-one against a TE doesn't happen anymore.

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We were lucky Tight Ends aren't the fastest guys out there

Weddle went for a pick in the 2nd half and go totally burned by it, I can’t fault him on that play because if he gets it it probably is a pick six and we are ahead, but instead Scheffler just has to win a foot race which he couldn’t, still had the opportunity to stop Denver after it.

by Dude52089 on Oct 21, 2009 7:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It was one of those “all or nothing” plays you make when your offense can’t do anything and your defense can’t get off the field. I can’t fault him for trying for it. Look at how poor the offense was in the 2nd half:

4:37, 48 yards, FG (50 yds)
2:00, 21 yards, Fumble
1:16, -8 yards, Punt
2:11, 42 yards, Turnover on downs
2:55, 40 yards, Missed FG

When you can’t score a single point for the last quarter and a half, you deserve to lose. When you score only 1 TD, and it’s in the first quarter, you deserve to lose to most NFL teams.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like you said

Seems like we had an opposite game with the same result. I hope we keep improving because i still think we are capable of doing well enough for the post season.

by Dude52089 on Oct 21, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Nothing or Nothing" play

I agree that sometimes it is worth taking a gamble on the pick, but Weddle was not even close on that one. To me it wasn’t a gamble, it was just a poor choice. I do fault him on that one.

Also I thought that Ellison played very good for his first start, but I don’t agree about him doint a good job vs Scheffler. The Broncos completed passes to Scheffler anytime they wanted whether it was Ellison or Weddle on him. Also when Weddle made his poor attempt at the pick Ellison had a big wiff on the tackle that cost us big.
My fear with Ellison and Weddle at safety is that neither is capable of covering anyone man up.
Again I thought Ellison played good for his first start so maybe he will be better than I expect.

by JeromeB on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As awful as it is to be 3.5 games back,

Good analysis. This was mostly my impression.

This game gave me some hope. I’m not saying Ian Scott is the guy or anything, but with Scott and a healthy Travis Johnson, they’ll have a nice rotation, and maybe won’t wear out as bad in the 4th quarter, giving Rivers some time to do his thing.

I agree about the o-line. Mruczkowski isn’t getting it done as the starting center: he’s worth keeping because he can also play G or TE, but he’s a career backup. It’s a bitch when the guy you need to replace is the Center, but maybe it’s time to give Dennis Norman a look… we have four division games and four games against good pass rushes before Dec 6, which is the earliest return time for Hardwick. And the other two pass rushes are the Chiefs, who got 6 of their 10 sacks last year off of us, and played us pretty damn hard (don’t let the SD sweep fool you: those games were won on KC special teams failures (and Scifres, who you might have noticed didn’t have his best game last night).

Norv really needs to take this team to the playoffs. I think he’s kind of underrated, actually. I hate to say it, but we need even more gimmicks in our offensive bag of tricks. We have great skill players and a poor line: he did a good job making stuff happen in bits and pieces, but this still isn’t a good game, unless you’re Dr. Frankenstein and sew the last 20 minutes of the Pittsburgh game onto the first 40 minutes of the Denver game. Then it looks ok.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 21, 2009 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

much more comfortable with the DL this week

Ian Scott made some plays. I did notice the Johnson was in, but didn’t see him make any plays. Martin was inactive, which is where he should be at this point in his career.

I feel bad for Mooch, he really stunk it up and his stinking it up causes those around him to stink it up… It’s kind of a vicious circle. However, OL depends on a lot on week to week consistency, and I think they will get better if they can keep the current group together for a few games. Mooch is skilled enough to be servicable in there, especially with Dielman on one side and Vaquez on the other. Time will make this line better not personnell changes.

The real problem remains the defense, specifically, their inability to get off the field. I think this is due mainly to their inability to get a pass rush going. I’m hoping Rivera has some aces up his sleeve. Hopefully we can get fat on the Chiefs this week and build up some confidence.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 21, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm having deja-vu here

I think I recall the same statements being said by our guys about our team last year…I predict a change in DC for you guys this off-season (at least if things are going to pick up for your D)

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 21, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed Scott was pushing up the pocket pretty well

by Trendsearcher on Oct 21, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't feel too bad, the Chargers didn't fare any better against the Broncos in the second half than anyone else..

In fact, the Chargers scored 3 points in the second half, that’s three more than the Browns, Raiders, Cowboys and Patriots all combined for in the second half. Still not third down conversions in the second half though…Broncos extended a 4 game streak of that.

As a Bronco fan, I too am astonished at how good our defense becomes after halftime. It’s other-worldly…

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Oct 21, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We did have 1 3rd down conversion in the second half due to a PI penalty.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That doesn't factor into the "official"stats

But I hear you…I don’t know what else Goodman could have done in that situation, but it was a mistake on our part and a penalty for a 1st.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 21, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I remember right it was penalty or TD, so I'm not sure how much of a mistake....

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 21, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just an idea

You should tally up who gets the most Bolts and Dolts during the year. That way in the offseason when you are looking for guys to do pieces on you can just pick from the top 3 in each category.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure PR17 has gotten a BOLT in each game this year.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at you

Mr. Fancy Mountain West Conference Blogger.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know right?

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats, sir

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can always put TWO blog links in my signature

If you know what I mean!

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You got a weekly post in you?

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hells ya if I can figure out a relevant and interesting topic to write about

That isn’t already being done by the excellent staff around here.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blogger?

Nice!

A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.

Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!

by CaDuck on Oct 21, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say the RBs combined should get a Bolt.

LT had over 100 yards from scrimmage and Sproles had the punt return. Also, FWIW, the offensive line played pretty well in the first half, stopping alot of blitzes that led to huge passes. But any good they did in the first half was negated when they completely shit the bed in the 2nd.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I liked seeing LT out in space again

It seems like a long time since I’ve seen LT used as a utility back. But with our O Line it just makes so much sense to get him out side the Tackles in some way. He looked like himself out there.

LT and the rest of the RBs blocking…. Not so good. LT got run over on that last offensive play.

by Trendsearcher on Oct 21, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LT should have done better

But, it was poor play calling to give him that responsibility when even the TV Color Commentator had noticed that they were going after the A gaps.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sproles

handled that blitz just fine, LT wiffed more than once.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 21, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It still shouldn't be their responsiblity

To handle a LB coming up the middle. A LB off the edge on a delayed blitz is better, at least the QB will have time to throw if they whiff or get overpowered. But, when they come up the middle it makes the QB move his feet, even if the RB gets a good block.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They had a good game, not a great game in my opinion.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The run D should also get a Bolt

I was impressed by the running game on both sides of the ball, we held the broncos to 3.1 ypc when they are one of the top running teams and LT finally saw some daylight and should have had better stats (if turner callled a decent run play on third and goal in the first half, but thats another discussion for another day),

by Billybills on Oct 21, 2009 10:29 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Pass schemes first half Bolt - second half DOLT!

This was like watching two separate games.

I think the rest of the league has seen the film on our max protect. Sending two receivers into the pattern didn’t work well at all against the Broncos – they covered it and flattened Philip. We have to get more guys into the pattern if we are going to keep focusing on the pass.

by Trendsearcher on Oct 21, 2009 10:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think it's pretty clear that Brian Dawkins is having a significant effect on that defense.

We had most of out success on offense when he was out in the first half. When he came back in the 2nd, we were completely stymied. When he was on the sidelines, he was firing guys up. When he was on the field, he was making plays.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 10:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Was just looking at the UT headlines and it reminded me

Scifres might be classified as a Dolt here. Might. He’s hurt, but his punts didn’t really cut the mustard. I think one of the keys to Osgood (and Milligan before him) looking so good on ST is that his punts get enough height and distance that our gunners can get down the field and shed their blocks in time to make the tackle. If Scifres keeps kicking like he did, we aren’t going to see our guys making big stops on punt returns very often. I know he’s hurt, but I’m just saying that currently he’s also hurting the team.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs

You're right.

On Royal’s punt return TD, and at least one other occasion besides, Scifres’s punt dropped a good ten yards in front of Royal and bounced to him. They didn’t have nearly the height or the distance we’re accustomed to. That hurt a lot, I think. At this point, I’d rather him just sit out and have someone else handle the punting job until he’s healthy.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He probably does deserve a Dolt, but somebody always have to be inexplicably left off.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed but he's hurt. But Coop was too.

Maybe we need to fire the training staff instead of pointing at Norv and AJ.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Dolt – training staff. Have they never heard of groin pulls or how to avoid them?

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Need a punter?

My man Darren Bennett is around somewhere. He would be good for a few games. Can tackle too!

by Aussiecharger on Oct 21, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jammer = Bolt

I know his stat line is 4 tackles/ 0 PD, but how many passes did you see completed against him? From what I could tell, Marshall was Jammer’s primary responsibility on Monday. After Marshall had that million catch game against the Chargers last year, I have to say that Jammer did an excellent job.

by flounder2 on Oct 21, 2009 11:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I love jammer and all, but what’s with him pulling up on sideline tackles? Saw it against the steelers and a few times against the broncos. Like he thinks,"oh, plays over. He is at the sidelines. He is gonna step out of bounds, there is no point in tackling him. Then Hines Ward turns up field for ten more yards. It just exemplifies the problems with the defense. Finish the play, fuckwad!

by BORTZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

yup…chronic problem with our secondary. Ellison brought some physicality. Love the upside on this kid from this point on.

by slimsocal678 on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed Jammer = Bolt

It seemed like the only time Marshal was a factor Cro was on him, and even Cro didn’t give up much. Those CBs did a good job.

by Trendsearcher on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

PR17 made a bad throw that I saw

He hit the defender in the leg when he should have led LT into the endzone on that one play… that… I’m not gonna find when it was.

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play

by Axion on Oct 21, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It was in the 2nd half if i am correct

He was pressured to roll out and instead of setting his feet he threw it and under-threw LT

by Dude52089 on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it might have been an intentional underthrow

so LT could come back to it. The announcers said PR should have led LT into the end zone, but I thought they might have run out of room.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the same

And I do think it was intentional. But, I think the better decision would have been to go to the end zone.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

great analsys John (obviousman)

it’s refreshing to see actual critical analysis of the players other than sugar coating them like UT (although they are starting to trash some ppl by name).
One thing I was screaming about Cro on that questionable TD play – was he in position to actually tackle (I mean body tackle instead of arm tackle) Stokley or did Cro just get to him when he fell down and he touched him?

by slimsocal678 on Oct 21, 2009 12:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to BFTB

Lesson No. 1. Antonio Cromartie is never in position to make a tackle. He plays the ball and the ball only.

Lesson No. 2. The only person from the UT willing to be real and lay down criticism when necessary is Kevin Acee. He’s a friend of BFTB and a silver fox to boot. His Twitter account is the best thing to happen to the UT in a long time.

Lesson No. 3. Charlie Whitehurst may or may not be the sun, the earth, the moon and the stars.

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So Cro could’ve tackled him down before even breaking the plane and avoided the whole controversy?

by slimsocal678 on Oct 21, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

Because Stokely’s feet were in the end zone, which apparently, by rule makes it a touchdown.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think confusion could have been eliminated

if the officials signaled the TD when he made the catch instead of waiting until after he rolled into the endzone after being downed.

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play

by Axion on Oct 21, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to some MHR guys

The referee did signal it before he rolled into the end zone, but for some reason Jaworski didn’t think he did.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ref had to wait unit he completed the catch

by Trendsearcher on Oct 21, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only one foot was in the end zone

and the ball hadn’t crossed the plane. Hochuli #2.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

-1

Fail…go watch the replay. Both feet were on or past the line. I still haven’t seen a goal-line camera-angle, but it is completely possible the ball did cross the plane (even though that apparently doesn’t matter on a pass play).

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 21, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me fail? The ball has the cross the plane, not your feet.

I’m pretty sure.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently

With TD receptions (reception being the key here) you have to link of the goal line like you do the 3 out of bounds lines. The ball doesn’t have to be in the end zone, just the receivers feet when he establishes possession.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

link = think

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm reading the online rulebook on NFL.com

Link and the definition of a Touchdown is

When any part of the ball, legally in possession of a player inbounds, breaks the plane of the opponent’s goal line, provided it is not a touchback.

Except this “rulebook” is only a digest and it seems to be SEVERELY limited. There is no other mention of when there is a touchdown other than the definition section.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently the NFL want you to BUY the rulebook if you want to read it.

I found a .pdf of a 2006 version of the rules, i’ll look there.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to the 2006 OFFICIAL rules

Link
It is a TD when

(b) while inbounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the
opponents’ goal line.

So unless the rules have changed since then…you are WRONG

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe not.

I guess that rule is ambiguous enough to interpret it either way.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm confused

I haven’t really been arguing about this catch too much because the game is over, but wasn’t there an instance last year in the Giants/Redskins game where a game-winning TD was reversed to not be a TD because the guy was diving back towards the ball when he caught it and the ball never broke the plane?

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's what (at the time) convinced me

We had quite a discussion about this at MHR

From the rulebook:

From Rule 11, section 2, article 1 “it is a touchdown:
a) when the runner advances from the field of play and the ball touches the opponents goal line (plane); or
b) while inbounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the opponents’ goal line”

From Rule 3, section 2, article 3 a “loose ball” is simply “a live ball that is not in player possession, i.e. any kick pass or fumble.”

So while it seems a bit odd (because this type of play is very rare), the ref’s call was absolutely correct…where the ball is is irrelevant because of how the rules define a TD pass.

4th down and 1 never happens because the call was irrefutably correct. (Also note, the ref said "confirms" the call, not "we found no irrefutable evidence")

But, you make a good point that you can read that either way. And the more I think of it, the more it seems to be that they are talking about the loose ball being on or behind the goal line (which would cover the out of bounds cases assuming the goal line is referring to the line dividing the field of play from the end zone). Especially because I’ve never seen recovered loose ball out of the end zone be ruled a TD, but I have seen a ball recovered when the player was in the end zone where it was not called a TD.

I call BS on the MHR interpretation.

But, I still don’t really care. This isn’t the Hochuli scenario where this changed the outcome of the game directly. There are a bunch of ifs ands and buts that had to work out in order for it to actually matter. Not the least of which would have been the Chargers ability to stop the Broncos on 4th and inches.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Odd… I see this situation quite frequently??

Especially because I’ve never seen recovered loose ball out of the end zone be ruled a TD

Basically it is the "two feet in bounds" rule. I see it mostly on the fade to the corner of the end zone. Receiver makes the catch leaning out of bounds, gets two feet in and falls out of bounds (with possession).

I see this situation about once a game with a catch at the sidelines.

by Trendsearcher on Oct 21, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How has the ball not crossed the goal line in those situations?

I’m talking about a situation where if you’re looking down the goal line with the field on your right and the end zone on your left and the ball has not crossed the part on the right to the part on the left. The sidelines have nothing to do with it. If they do, then the ball is already across the goal line.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's back out of the end zone for second

Where do you spot the ball on a sideline catch if the Receiver leaning down field falls out of bounds with the foot drag? It the spot where the ball crossed the side line? – No

It’s at the spot where his feet crossed the side line.

If he was running then yes it is where the ball crossed. But during the catch it is all about the feet and maintaining possession – Hold on to that ball Baby!

by Trendsearcher on Oct 22, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is the deal with the receivers and fade routes…the goal line plane, in practice, extends infinitely. I’m talkin all the way around the world. Naturally, most of this fantasyland is out of bounds, save a magical 300’ by 160’ rectangle aka the end zone. The fade route breaks that plane. The sides of the end zone are not part of that plane. Just the magic infinite goal line. The receivers comes down in bounds. Touchdown.

The whole “two feet” argument does not make sense. Dude had to cross the plane.

by BORTZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever. The game is over.

I guess I’m just doing that “thinking like a lawyer” thing that I’m supposed to be learning.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sue Denver

by Dalton on Oct 21, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're learning.

We're boned.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was just gnna sa that about you...

that catch kinda reminds me of that one catch the Steelers had last year… Forgot who it was but eh… Even if that wasnt a TD it woulda been a TD right after it… Oh wells. That game is done over far far away in memory (at least for me). I cried on my Birthday!!!!! (ugh)

" A finger or two in the air shows how much we care"

by ChargersWitch on Oct 21, 2009 6:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Feet!?

Don’t be talking about feet! It is where the ball is, I don’t give a crap if his feet were 8 yards into the endzone.

A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.

Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!

by CaDuck on Oct 21, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well the rules disagree with you.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If that were true

At least Hochuli saw that he was wrong in the replay, but couldn’t do anything about it.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Charlie Whitehurst

Represents everything that is wrong with this team and has personally lost us all 12 games over the last two years.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have you seen how he holds his clipboard?

Just despicable.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only he held the clipboard better

we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is clearly responsible for our pass rush woes.

A much needed bye week; and two whole weeks to focus the inner hatred of UW even moreso than normal.

Locker...Welcome to my profile, You will be formally introduced by Juju at a later date, 10/23 to be more specific!

by CaDuck on Oct 21, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

During obvious passing downs

Charlie needs to do a better job of running into the field and whacking the opposing QB in the head with his clipboard.

What else are clipboards for?

We're boned.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the penalty for impersonating Jesus?

Badly, I might add. Ever see a powder blue loincloth with lightning bolts on it? No. And I’m pretty sure that the clipboard is a modern invention.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 21, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Volektric Billy is our true savior.

Let’s just hope he never comes due.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's old news

Did nobody else see the clean-shaven Charlie during the Broncos game? Well, he had stubble, but that was it. Also, he looked high.

You show me a better clipboard holder in this league and I’ll show you a LIAR!

"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock

by John Gennaro on Oct 21, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I’m partial to Curtis Painter as a clipboard holder. He’s undefeated as a clipboard holder. 5-0, baby.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jim Sorgi.

Now THERE’S a championship clipboard holder.

Greg Maddux for manager.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You do realize

Sorgi and Painter are on the same team. Can multiple guys hold clipboards. I don’t think Volek holds one for us, so I assume Sorgi doesn’t for the Colts and Painter does. I could be wrong though.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the colts used to only have 2 QBs

so Sorgi had to carry the clipboard even though he was the backup. Worked out OK since he never saw the field until meaningless week 17 games anyways. I bet he is relieved have the responsibility of clipboard carrying removed from him.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Oct 21, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I'm thinking

And it seems to be going well for my fellow Purdue alum.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Special Teamers, Clipboard Holders...

… it’s too bad the HOF never notices the guys who consistently make the little differences.

by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Oct 21, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They might have two clipboards

You need depth at clipboard.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Oct 21, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs

rectacular

by CoastalBronco on Oct 21, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hope that's our new NT.

The peanut gallery has spoken!!!

by gatesoftds on Oct 21, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slightly off topic

This article about “Accuscore”, which is some fancy-dancy simulation thing still shows the Chargers with the 3rd best chance of making the playoff out of the AFC after NE, DEN, and PIT.
As I said before, we still don’t look terrible with all the .500 teams with way harder schedules than the Chargers (which is one of the easiest according to Football Outsiders).

by flounder2 on Oct 21, 2009 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Right

But I think most Chargers fans are just worried that even with these things in our favor, we’ll figure out some way to screw it up.

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Especially considering this team is one big head case at the moment.

We're boned.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you know if Accuscore factors in terrible coaching?

That might change things.

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot" - Groucho Marx

by sdpads24 on Oct 21, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I assume it takes into account the past two years during which time we had the same head coach we do presently.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Oct 21, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh also

Did anyone hear Cromartie’s post-game comments? About how he thinks we were screwed by the referees again?

I swear, that dude is dumb as rocks.

We're boned.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Florida State football players have a 2nd grade reading level.

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot" - Groucho Marx

by sdpads24 on Oct 21, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and remember

He doesn’t even have a diploma from FSU. So….

Wisdom can not be cultivated through ignorance of information.

by Wonko on Oct 21, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's just plain rude.

You shouldn’t be insulting rocks. They are the salt of the earth.

by SJO on Oct 22, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of shitty Offensive Lines

KA tweeted that Nick Hardwick was on a side field running and doing drills, probably out another month.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Having Nick back wouldn't solve all our problems

but it should sure help a lot. No more free rushers up the middle, botched line calls, and delay of game penalties.

We're boned.

by Zach (maestro876) on Oct 21, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

So you're saying we'd be 4-1 with him?

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
A kid who has a unicorn ranch in his room cannot call other people weird. Yes, we know about "Rancho Unicorno."

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 21, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs