Is Norv Turner the Problem?
You don't need to be listening closely to hear Charger fans clamoring for Norv Turner to be fired.
The general sense is that he inherited an enormously talented team and turned it into a pile of mush without identity. So with the season basically over and the team standing at 4-8; you have to wonder 'Well, how did I get here?'. Lets look at some of the basics first, the overall team stats:
Passing yardage at 236 per game, 9th in the league is a good number. Norv certainly has a lot to do with that; also with the development of Rivers as a quarterback. Some of those yards are out of necessity though. This is a team that has played from behind all year with the exception of the games against the Jets and Patriots. Here is the line on Rivers for the year:
Even with the past few games Rivers has clearly come a long ways as a quarterback. While certainly it's possible that would have happened anyway, it seems fair to say that this offense did very well even with Gates and LT injured in the beginning of the year. Norv's record as head coach certainly leaves you wondering too, but in checking out how the teams (Washington & Oakland) did the few years after Norv was fired, it turns out they fared even worse for several years (in the case of the Raiders they are still worse).
Since taking over the Chargers, the Bolts have certainly degraded. It is hard to hang all this on Norv as AJ installed Ted Cottrell as the defensive coordinator. He did allow Turner to fire Cottrell just three weeks back and the defense has looked decidedly better; unfortunately the offense is now sputtering. Certainly it was completely dominated by the Falcons last week in a game the Chargers had to win.
One area where I think there are legitimate questions about his coaching are penalties. This is a team in a lot of close games, and lets face it there isn't the margin for stupid penalties. In the last four games the Chargers have amassed 9-84 yards vs. Atlanta; 2 for 5 yards in Pittsburgh; 5 for 37 yards against Indy and 5 for 37 yards against the Chiefs. That's a grand total of 32 penalties for 163 yards over the last four games. They are giving up an average of 40 yards per game to opponents; every game was decided by less than a touchdown and the Chargers are 1-3 in those games. That shouldn't be tolerated this late in the season and I don't see anybody calling out the guys that are committing the penalties.
Looking at the overall picture I still think Norv deserves one more bite at the apple. He brought us within a game of the Super Bowl in 2007 and had the Chargers playing well; even with multiple injuries. Next season Merriman will be back; and lets face it; he makes the players around him better just by taking up a double team and forcing teams to scheme against him. We should also get a pretty first round draft choice that should be used to bolster our beleagured offensive line. If Norv can't win next season; then he should be jettisoned. I recognize that puts me in the minority of Charger fans and even football fans who think Norv is a catastrophic failure.
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my theory....
is that norv, as the head coach, does not have the time to sit in on offensive meetings and therefore never goes into a game with a firm grasp on what the defense’s weaknesses are. he also doesn’t have time to come up with creative gameplans and typically goes into a game with “what works” or with a “go by feel” approach.
i think this is why in the first half our offense typically does nothing and also why in the second half we’re typically an offensive machine. you give him some time to stare at a defense and see how they react to certain things, he’s going to figure it out. however, he really should be figuring this stuff out in the film room instead of during the game. because….
our offensive putridity in the first half leads to an unbelievable unbalance in time of possession. which leads to a second half where our defense is exhausted. obviously our “bend but don’t break” defense works much, much better with a great pass rush and we haven’t had that this year. but since rivera has taken over i’ve seen that this defense can work even without a passrush, because it creates a lot of 3rd downs, where 1 thing could go wrong and end the drive. the thing this defense needs, since it winds up playing a lot of downs, is REST. it also needs a consistent offense that is putting some points on the board.
basically, that’s what i think. norv is a brilliant offensive mind and knows that’s his meal ticket so he doesn’t want to hand the playcalling to somebody else. but he doesn’t have enough time to come up with a proper offensive gameplan or at least be involved in coming up with it (important for the playcaller), so we spend the first half doing 3 and outs and tiring out our defense. and THAT is the main reason we keep losing at the end of games. not scheming, just flat out exhaustion.
and some people will say “but we’re so close to turning it around!” yeah right. we’re 4-8. the last time i saw a team lose the time of possession battle this dramatically and consistently it was the 1-15 season that got mike riley fired. i would love an opportunity to bring in someone else to be the head coach and move norv to offensive coordinator, but that’s not happening. unless norv creates more hours in the day for him to be involved in the offensive during the week, this problem will not go away.
by John (obviousman) on Dec 4, 2008 9:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
So youre saying
That Norv, the head coach of the Chargers, the man who is deemed a “great offensive mind”, doesn’t have time to plan his offense before games and just “wings” it? He worked his whole life to prove he has the ability to be a successful NFL coach and now that he has a chance with one of the most talented teams in the NFL he just says “fuck it”, and flies by the seat of his pants.
If that is true then i want him gone also. If.
We're gonna dazzle you with our super play.
by soulSD on Dec 4, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
My take on the first half is that Norv is inherently cautious. He plays it too safe in the first half when the score is tied; and that worked well when the defense was creating turnovers like crazy. Once they are behind in the second half he opens up the offense which generates a lot of yards and points; though often not quite enough. I remember a close fourth down situation in the Colts playoff game late in the game; where I really thought they could make the yard or two and then run out the clock. He chose to kick it away and they ended up stopping Indy. So in that instance his caution paid off; I likely would have lost that game. Now that we don’t have that defense that can be counted on for a stop; I wonder if we wouldn’t be better off taking more risks.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 4, 2008 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And so it begins...again.
I’ll tell you why i like Norv’s Chargers more than Marttys Chargers in one word: “Watchability”.
Marttys Chargers were a consistent team that valued the run game, clock management, and had an overall conservative approach to its offense. Boring. Yes it did result in a 14-2 record (which really only built me up for the worst fall I’ve had as a San Diego fan) but it made for a predictable, almost chesslike feel. Martty utilized the best running back in history and for that i cannot fault him. It just created a one dimensional team that management felt wasn’t exploiting the other talent it had acquired. Plus Martty was kinda a dick to them.
Norv’s Chargers are the opposite. They are inconsistent, multidimensional and creative. Yet, Norv accomplished in his first year, what Martty could not. A PLAYOFF WIN! His quarterback is maturing to be a top 5 QB and his receiving core is getting a lot of recognition.
Look, this year has been freakish to say the least. I think it would be fair to say that the Chargers record could have easily been better if the cosmos had been aligned differently. We’ve lost 4 games in the last 20 seconds, thats just bad luck. Win even 2 of those and we are not having this conversation.
The bottom line for me is that i feel like Norv uses our talent very effectively. I think he is a perfect fit for our team.
Oh and as far as penalties go, maybe you should rewatch the last 15 minutes of the Chargers-Patriots playoff game from 06 under Martty. That season was pretty bad with penalties if i remember correctly.
We're gonna dazzle you with our super play.
by soulSD on Dec 4, 2008 9:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hate to flood this thread
But i also wanted to add that the trend firing head coaches (in all sports) after only a few years is ridiculous. Today I just heard about Laviolette being fired from the Hurricanes twenty games into the season. This is the same coach that won them a Stanely Cup in 2006. He had three years left on his contract. Norv has been here a year and a half, and has taken us to an AFC championship game.
Seriously this is crazy right?
We're gonna dazzle you with our super play.
by soulSD on Dec 4, 2008 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It can be
But I don’t think it necessarily is. If you have a bus driver headed for the cliff at 60 mph; you take the wheel and fire him. It doesn’t matter how long he has driven the bus without crashing; he’s done. I posted on this after getting a number of questions from other blogs and seeing a UT survey that showed 90% of respondents wanted Norv gone. As I said; I’m not one of them, but I also don’t think those that do want him gone are idiotic.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 4, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Penalties
Oh and as far as penalties go, maybe you should rewatch the last 15 minutes of the Chargers-Patriots playoff game from 06 under Martty.
Are you saying that penalties are ok because it happened to Marty too? Penalties are the sign of sloppy play; I think that reflects on the coach. This isn’t asking should we get Marty back; I certainly don’t want to see him back. But I went back and looked at four games in the same time period in 2006; they were 3/30, 5/49, 5/35 and 4/45 so 17 for 159 yards; so 120 yards less than the current team.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 4, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, with Calipatrick's correction
The 2006 team was roughly equal (159-166), my mistake.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 4, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

captioned
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
by Axion on Dec 4, 2008 1:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Discipline
plan your work. work your plan. correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the Steelers committed 13 penalties for 115 yards. We had something like 2 for 5 yards. I think you still make a good argument, DaBalts, because it’s not necesarily what penalty but when and we do them at inopportune times.
That being said, Marty may not have been well liked, but he was respected and our team was disciplined. I remember the faders at chargers game in Marty’s last year. This was the same game where VJ spiked the ball after he caught it and wasn’t touched. It was fourth down near then end of the 4th quarter and the faders had to go for it. Aaron Brooks threw an interception to Drayton Florence and instead of batting it down he caught it. I was sitting plaza for that game and Marty was livid on the sidelines when Florence started to run it back. He came to his senses after about 5 seconds and layed down to seal the turn over. When Florence came back to the sidelines Marty was all in his face. No showboating!! It was a stupid play by Florence and Marty reminded his in a very strong manner. Florence learned his lesson that day, too bad it wasn’t Marlon Mcree learning his.
Bring back Balboa Stadium.
by calipatrick on Dec 4, 2008 1:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Damn
You’re absolutely right; I got the numbers backwards on the Steeler game. It’s funny you mention Marty busting Florence when he came off the field. I was thinking of him getting on Olshansky for a personal foul. It happened after Denver center Nalen shot out at his leg; even though Olshansky was right to be ticked off; he caught an earful for giving up the fifteen yarder. I can’t ever recall Turner getting on a player for a penalty.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 4, 2008 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the words of Kevin Acee
“Forget about the head coach. Norv Turner is not going away.”
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 4, 2008 2:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Norv + your management...should be fired.
You are reaping what you sowed for firing Marty. It will be a long time before San Diego enjoys another AFC West title.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
Chiefs, Raiders, what’s the difference? It’s hard to see in the basement! - hoosierteacher 12/4/08
by Tim Lynch on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Where's the beef?
AJ and Norv took the team farther than it has been in over a decade. The Broncos have a total of one playoff win since Elway retired, Norv & AJ had two just last season. Marty never even had a playoff win with the Chargers. Your argument appears as little more than specious posing to me.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 5, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Marty intentionally got himself fired by disobeying the owner. That’s nobody’s fault but his.
by Richard Wade on Dec 5, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
And the manner he left had the Chargers scrambling with Wade Phillips and Cameron being hired away already. I have a lot of respect for the turnaround and culture of winning he instilled here; but the way he left was disgusting. I would never want to see Marty coach here again. He got himself fired so he would get paid on his contract; just ignore the fact that he left all his players in the lurch.
And as long as I’m ranting I was ticked off that the NFL put him on in the third quarter to fit in with their ‘Teams in disarray’ meme; they talked right over a spectacular hit by Dobbins and all Schottenheimer had to offer was pablum. And of course they never pressed Marty on any of those factors in getting himself fired.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 5, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
AJ Smith
is close to if not the best GM in the NFL. Don’t listen to crazy emotional fans who think they know it all.
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 5, 2008 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
As a Bronco fan--watching from the outside--you guys have been Norv'd
You have way too much tallent to be where you’re at.
The best defense is a good defense!
And last week's young players. Yes!
by Mike Clark on Dec 5, 2008 4:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on Dec 5, 2008 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
The best defense is a good defense!
And last week's young players. Yes!
by Mike Clark on Dec 5, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DaBolts--no dialog?
The best defense is a good defense!
And last week's young players. Yes!
by Mike Clark on Dec 5, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s the point of having a discussion with someone who is clearly trolling?
by Richard Wade on Dec 6, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Richard
Not all of us ‘trolls’ are bad.
The best defense is a good defense!
And last week's young players. Yes!
by Mike Clark on Dec 6, 2008 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say you were “bad,” but your comment was clearly a troll comment not an attempt to start an honest debate.
by Richard Wade on Dec 6, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That your team has been, 'Norved'.....that isn't an honest debate?
The best defense is a good defense!
And last week's young players. Yes!
by Mike Clark on Dec 6, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You almost had me. I’m not going to engage you any further.
by Richard Wade on Dec 7, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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